357 maximum in a Puma 92 357mag?


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padd54
March 25, 2009, 04:12 PM
Hi all,

Will a 357 Remington Maximum cartridge safely work in my Puma 92 and Marlin 1894 357mag rifles?

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jfh
March 25, 2009, 04:15 PM
This question should be posted in rifles or two categories of handguns.

The answer is No. 357 Maximums are a different cartridge (and round) than 357 Magnums, and the cartridge will not fit--much less safely "work."

Jim H.

Vern Humphrey
March 25, 2009, 04:32 PM
If you try it, the bullet on your .357 Max will jam into the forcing cone of your .357 Mag chamber and you will not be able to close the breech.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
March 25, 2009, 04:37 PM
Won't fit and always come back to the rule of using the correct ammunition for your firearm.

padd54
March 25, 2009, 04:37 PM
I could try to cut it down, splitting the difference.
I am going to get some brass and see what the max length will work in my rifles. What is the best way to determine this, before I start trimming a bunch of brass?

pharmer
March 25, 2009, 04:40 PM
Why go through the hassle? Someone will trade .357 mag for your max, I'll bet gladly. Joe

padd54
March 25, 2009, 04:50 PM
I have 357mag rifles. The Marlin 1894 and Puma 92. I want to use them to hunt deer. I want to determine optimal length to properly seat the cartridge in the breach. I forget the correct terminology. I want to also determine the max OAL that will still feed properly. I know that there is a gap with the standard length 357mag case and I the 357max case may well be too long.
To all that say leave well enough alone, with that mindset we would still be using clubs. There is always room for improvement if done in a safe and sane manner.

Vern Humphrey
March 25, 2009, 04:56 PM
I want to determine optimal length to properly seat the cartridge in the breach. I forget the correct terminology. I want to also determine the max OAL that will still feed properly.

The proper terminology is Overall length (OAL). Related to that term is seating depth -- the depth to which a particular bullet is seated.

A simple way to accomplish your goal is to load a dummy round, with the bullet seated out as far as you can (but not crimped.) Try feeding that dummy round through the magazine -- if it won't go, remove it, screw the seating die down a bit and try again until you achieve an OAL that will feed. (Note: If you change bullets, you have to do this all over again.)

When you manage to chamber a dummy round, inspect it carefully to see if it has been jammed into the lede (origin of the rifling.) If you don't see any evidence of that, try feeding that round into the chamber by hand and closing the breech. If there is no resistance, you have the max OAL for your rifle.

If you do feel resistance, screw the seating die in a bit more and try again.

padd54
March 25, 2009, 05:06 PM
Thanks, that is great. I know what OAL is, the part I was trying to explain is, I think headspace or the length from the bolt face to where the case would contact the chamber or breech.

rcmodel
March 25, 2009, 05:12 PM
Nothing longer then the .357 Mag at SAAMI OAL of 1.590" will feed through your lever-actions, and it is a waste of time to try it. You will just end up with a round half out of the magazine tube and stuck in the carrier, which will lock up your gun, and require complete dissembly to get it unlocked.

The .357 Maximum is loaded to 1.990" and will not even fit in the cartridge lifter in a lever-gun designed for .357 length rounds.

If you cut the case down to .357 mag length, you still have .357 mag case capacity or less and no performance gain.

Besides that, the .357 Max is loaded to higher pressure then the Puma or 94 Marlin can safely handle.

rc

Vern Humphrey
March 25, 2009, 05:18 PM
I think headspace or the length from the bolt face to where the case would contact the chamber or breech.

The .357 Mag is a rimmed cartridge. It headspaces on the rim. So headspace is the space between the closed bolt and the bottom of the rim recess in the face of the breech -- and it is not affected by OAL or any other feature a reloader can control.

tunnug
March 25, 2009, 05:35 PM
The answer is No. 357 Maximums are a different cartridge (and round) than 357 Magnums, and the cartridge will not fit--much less safely "work". (quote)

Actually the .357 maximum is a stretched out .357 magnum which is a stretched out .38 special.

so using a .357 max in a .357 mag is like trying to shove a .357 mag into a .38, not recommended or advised, I have a .357 max barrel for my contender and am able to shoot the shorter cartridges in it because it will work but I don't think I would try it in reverse.

rswartsell
March 25, 2009, 05:46 PM
and .38 Special is a lengthened .38 Long Colt which is a lengthened .38 Short Colt which was developed as a cartridge conversion for the Colt Navy .36. It all goes back to Wild Bill's .36 Navies.

padd54
March 25, 2009, 06:15 PM
Thanks guys, this is the article that got me to thinking about a longer case for my rifles; http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/357_magnum_and_the_literature.htm

Vern Humphrey
March 25, 2009, 06:51 PM
But nothing in this says you need a longer case. In fact, it says the standard .357 Mag can be safely loaded very hot, and is very effective.

t165
March 25, 2009, 09:36 PM
I own a M92 Puma lever chambered for the 454 Casull. The 357 Remington Maximum cartridge has a max 48,000 cup operating pressure. The 454 Casull has a max 55,000 cup operating pressure. Some reloading manuals may differ slightly. The point I'm trying to make is the M92 Puma could easily handle the lower pressure, less powerful, 357 Remington Maximum. I'm not sure if the 1894 Marlin could handle the pressure of the 357 Remington Maximum or not. Marlin does not chamber the 1894 in the 454 Casull due to concerns over pressure.

IIRC the problem would be in the OAL. The 357 Remington Maximum runs about 1.990 and the 454 Casull is about 1.765. Again, I'm sure there is some slight differences in some reloading manuals. I think the 454 Casull is about as big as the M92 Puma and handle as far as OAL length. I also think OAL would be a problem in the 1894 Marlin if one was to try and chamber it in the 357 Remington Maximum.

Runningman
March 25, 2009, 11:01 PM
Not a good idea, not only is the throat length different there is .315 difference in chamber length. If you do manage to cram a loaded 357 Maximum round in a 357 mag chamber and fire it pressures will go through the roof because of bullet release issues. It would be the equivalent to to tight of a neck clearance on a bottle neck case.

azyogi
September 26, 2009, 10:45 PM
If you were to ream the chamber up to 357 max that would work but then the lifter won't be long enough to handle the Max. round coming down out of the magazine. It's a good concept just a lousy idea. If they do come out with one I would trade up to the Max. but I don't think after all the work you'd be happy with a conversion.

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