[DougCxx]

On a general interest board, someone asked about the advantages of bullpups compared to conventional designs. Conventional rifles of course are decended from early open-breech types, with which a bullpup design would have been very daring! -But I also wanted to point out the safety advantages of having the chamber/barrel placed well forward of the shooter's main extremities.
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I know I saw in the past (on the internet) photos of a Springfield that had exploded, I thought it was a M1A but the Google hits I get speak of a Garand. The shooter only suffered a couple small cuts to one of his hands. All the hits I find that look promising seem to be dead links. And there must have been other rifles that went kaboom in similar ways. Does anyone know where I can find images of guns that have suffered barrel/breech ruptures?
~

[Art Eatman]

That worry has always been part of the psychological distaste for the design, for a lot of people.

However, absent an obstruction in the bore, I've yet to hear of name-brand factory ammo ever blowing up in a rifle. I've been reading a lot of gunzines, over the last 50+ years, so the odds are I'd have heard about it if it ever happened...

First saw a bullpup rig in 1950. Model 70, .220 Swift.

Art

[Al Thompson]

http://www.thegunzone.com/m1akb/762r.html

[gun-fucious]

http://www.quarterbore.com/ar15m16/ar15kaboom.html

[Mike Irwin]

I've known two shooters who have been injured, one mildly, one fairly badly, by factory case failures in fully functional rifles.

The first was shooting a .30-06, and was peppered with bits of brass, powder gas, etc.

The second was shooting I BELIEVE a Remington 760, caliber unknown. When the case left loose it blew the magazine out and lacerated his left wrist and forearm VERY badly -- I seem to recall about 60 stitches and surgery to repair a tendon that was partially torn.

[C.R.Sam]

And...
I don't think all the handloader hotrodders are going to back off just because they have a bullpup.

Or....maby Darwin could use the help ?

Sam

[jrhead75]

With reloads and the increasingly popular MilSurp stuff, squibs are a whole lot more probable. I've had/seen 2 of them, one with some nasty ol' American Eagle "factory reloads" 9mm in my Uzi, and one just recently with Indian MilSurp .308 in a buddy's (shooting next to me) M1A. Luckily, in both cases, the shooter was well trained enough to stop and clear the bore before receiver shrapnel was flying.

I read on another board recently where some clown had a squib with a reload in his buddy's AR clone, and just handed it back saying, "here, you finish off the mag"...needless to say, that rifle briskly disassembled itself. Luckily nobody was seriously hurt. (note: if it was me, I'd have beat that yayhoo senseless with the remains of my $1000 rifle)

Point of this ramble: I'd just as soon not have all that destructive potential that close to my pointy little head thank you. :scrutiny:

[Cosmoline]

Isn't there a Big Fifty bullpup? Seems to me if the design can cope with THOSE pressures, it should be able to cope with everything else.

[Andrew Wyatt]

bullpups are a family of designs, some strong, some not so strong.


It is my opinion that they sacrifice too much for too little gain.

[AK103K]

I've had a Garand slam fire and come partially apart on me during a DCM match. I was lucky it was during the slow fire stage and the rifle wasnt in my shoulder when it went. The rear of the reciever was blown off just behind the serial number, the stock had a big chunk blown out of it and was cracked, and the bolt and op rod were jammed to the rear and would not go forward. For the most part the rifle stayed together. The case was blown in half, with just the lower half being found. The rear of the reciever was never found. The op rod handle tore a good sized chunk of my palm open and you could read the headstamp of the brass in my palm in reverse. This happened with factory Lake City 69 issue ammo. Anniston never did tell me what they thought it was, but they did send me a new gun. I'll tell you right now, you dont want to have this happen with any gun, I dont want to think what would happen if it was a bullpup. I've always been a little leary and a lot more careful when shooting M1's and M14's/M1A's ever since. I no longer allow the bolt to "fly home" on single rounds in the chamber. I also pay close attention to ammo and especially primers in reloads and I wont shoot anyones reloads but my own.

[Art Eatman]

Yeah, Al, that one has been around a while, about the M14. The key part, though, is, "There are a number of cracks in the barrel running longitudinally. These cracks are not new. There are sufficient corrosion products and debris in them to indicate that they have been there for a long time." That rifle was a serous problem just waiting to occur.

The AR15 blowup was from ammo loaded with pistol powder...

IOW, yeah, anything can happen. With new Win/Rem/etc ammo, it's the condition of the rifle, 99.99% of the time.

Art

[keederdag]

I own a .50 Bullpup; The L.A.R. grizzly. This desighn works out esspecialy well in .50 cal bmg rifles, it's compact enough to be semi-practical. Doesnt help much in the weight dept. though. I have never had any problem's, not even a hard to extract case. But if it ever go's boom.....bye, bye Dag huh? ME not worried though:D

[gun-fucious]

heres another way to Kaboom a weapon:
http://www.quarterbore.com/ar15m16/ar15kaboom2.htm
sand in the barrel

this one was claimed to be a hot factory remington round:
http://www.quarterbore.com/ar15m16/ar15kaboom3.htm

[Blain]

I've had a Garand slam fire and come partially apart on me during a DCM match. I was lucky it was during the slow fire stage and the rifle wasnt in my shoulder when it went. The rear of the reciever was blown off just behind the serial number, the stock had a big chunk blown out of it and was cracked, and the bolt and op rod were jammed to the rear and would not go forward. For the most part the rifle stayed together. The case was blown in half, with just the lower half being found. The rear of the reciever was never found. The op rod handle tore a good sized chunk of my palm open and you could read the headstamp of the brass in my palm in reverse. This happened with factory Lake City 69 issue ammo. Anniston never did tell me what they thought it was, but they did send me a new gun. I'll tell you right now, you dont want to have this happen with any gun, I dont want to think what would happen if it was a bullpup. I've always been a little leary and a lot more careful when shooting M1's and M14's/M1A's ever since. I no longer allow the bolt to "fly home" on single rounds in the chamber. I also pay close attention to ammo and especially primers in reloads and I wont shoot anyones reloads but my own.


Was it a USGI M1 receiver, and if so, what brand was it?

[AK103K]

It was a USGI Springfield from the DCM.

[Moparmike]

Ok, so how do you know when you have had a squibb? Dont want any of my guns blowing up on me...:eek:

[Art Eatman]

Sound and feel. A squib load won't recoil, usually, or certainly not as much as normal. And it won't be as loud as usual.

Art

[Jim K]

I have had a Ljungmann AG42b let go on me, and I don't think I would have wanted to have a bullpup stock at the time. (I can't imagine a Ljungmann with that lllooonnnngg receiver in a bullpup stock, but that is another issue.)

The stock split with the part on the left of the receiver departing for the tall grass. The receiver sides bulged, the magazine floorplate blew off and the innards distributed themselves on the bench, the bolt carrier and cover blew off, taking the bolt along. Only a minor scratch to my arm.

If my face had been alongside that receiver, I don't think I would have been so lucky.

(The best analysis of the incident was that the round was a Danish arsenal reload, concerning which the American Rifleman had published a warning on high pressure. The idiot firing the rifle had forgotten the warning.

On reloads, I never fire anyone else's reloads, and am leery of even those "factory reloads". I figure that if I use only my own, and have a problem, I know the name of the dumb SOB who is to blame.)

Jim

[jrhead75]

Ok, so how do you know when you have had a squibb? Dont want any of my guns blowing up on me...

Very good question! As Art said, sound and feel are key. If you have a semi auto, a squib generally won't cycle the action. If the recoil/sound of the shot don't seem normal, or a semi auto doesn't cycle properly...stop.... and check your bore. Squibs aren't all that common (although thanks to old milsurp, they're getting more prevalent). In over 25 years of shooting, I've seen only 2...but either one of them could've screwed me up big time if not caught in time.

Like anything else...be aware. If something feels wrong, stop and check it out!

[Rogelio]

I once had something really ugly happening..although not as ugly as the things you are describing there...

5 years ago I went hunting with my father and we were taking out huashuas with his .22lr carbine...at some point I shot this POS Aguila round that only had the primer as a propellant (Check it out a www.aguilaammo.com) and the bullet did not even go through the barrel..of course we did not notice that and I thought I had missed -my dad was laughing at me real bad- and then I handed the gun to our co-hunter...he just worked the action and inserted a fresh winchester high vel...the gun did not explode but the barrel was "inflated" and the horrible sound that came off it really scared us all....took it to the gunsmith and asked for 300 USD to repair..the rifle is been unused since.!

I hate aguila ammo !! And I hate myself for being all that dumb!!

[jrhead75]

Rogelio...what you are describing is a squib...exactly. Happily, your rifle held together.

[cracked butt]

About a year or so ago I had a case head rupture in my Beretta 92. The ammo was factory remanufactured stuff. I just remember seeing a gray cloud peppered with hot brass hitting my face real quick like, and my right hand stinging badly. It scared me silly and it took me months before I could pick the pistol back up and shoot it again. :eek:
The pistol wasn't damaged, just needed some reassembly.
This was on a 9mm at arms length, having a rifle cartridge going off in a chamber next to my ear won't sit well with me anymore as in a bullpup.:what:

[MicroBalrog]

I've yet to hear of name-brand factory ammo ever blowing up in a rifle


I heard of it, a lot.:D

[Black Snowman]

I just picked up an M17S. The reciever has some space between the barrel and bolt for pressure to relieve itself out the ejection port and cooling holes at the front of the gun. The only way for a KaBoom to hurt you is for it to generate a projectile that will penetrate the housing by velocity alone which is signifigantly less likely than in something were the reciever is tight around the action like an AR.

For a bull-pup it's a very safe design. Still riskier for head injuries han a conventional rifle, but much more likely to be minor ones. So it's still within my "acceptable level of risk" as my motorcycle instructor called it.

[AUTIGER04]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

[keederdag]

Rogelio; was shooting .22 Colibre's. They specifically (Aguila) specifically state that you are not supposed to use them in rifles. They are only powered by the rimfire primer, Aguila recognizes that they may not have enough poop to make it out of a rifle barrel. I use them in a rifle all the time too, However. I just make sure they come out, and don't mix e'm up with other LR ammo. Sorry Rogelio:(

[standingbear]

has happened to me.an aunt gave me her deceased husbands ballard rifle(a ball/williams patent gun,hex barrel..old)i had paid a smith ckeck for functionally and safty- make some low powered loads up if it was ok.apparantly,1 of his loads was a tad bit too hot and the barrel split all the way back to the receiver.he said it was safe to shoot 44 specials through it loaded very lite..aparantly not.made a nice wallhanger for awhile then ended up as parts for a collector.never went back to that smith.idiot.