Hillary says its a shared responsibility on illegal guns in Mexico


March 27, 2009, 07:58 PM
Did anyone else see this sewage being spewed on the Greta Van Putztren show last night. Sad thing is these people actually believe in their hearts the sh*t coming out of their mouths. Link http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/# . Can someone actually post a link to the video I can only seem to get the main page, thanks.

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March 27, 2009, 08:05 PM
Well, most of those cartel guns are probably the one's the government sold Mexico for their military.
Hilary Clinton is an idiot, and the whole country knows it.

March 27, 2009, 08:18 PM
If the guns in Mexico came from the U.S., they came from the military sales our govt. made to them. I hope ******* took little billy with her to Mexico. There are certain "areas" of Nuevo Laredo he would really enjoy visiting. I'm sure the girls would treat him right.

March 27, 2009, 08:27 PM
Her argument is correct that we share a responsibility. We need to seal the border. Her position is errant (it seems) that the firearms came from the USA (according to border agents). I want to see the serial number from each and every firerarm to be tracked to the owner. Otherwise, I call BS. To date, Mexico refuses to give serial numbers.

March 27, 2009, 08:40 PM
NO ONE has shown proof that any firearms have made their way into that Godless cesspool. I also think the poor schmuck in Brownsville might have gotten railroaded. Remember the two border patrol officers? Without serial numbers, which the Mex government will not release, how could they convict?

But I'd be willing to send some 7.62x54 their way free of charge. Preferably from 500 plus yards. X

Highland Ranger
March 27, 2009, 08:44 PM
Saw it - another show I won't watch. There's no excuse for sloppy reporting. Machine guns from the US - what nonsense.

Kind of Blued
March 27, 2009, 08:44 PM
How about we worry about holding murderers responsible for murdering people instead?

March 27, 2009, 08:59 PM
For some reason the current view is that we are sending guns and money South out of the goodness of our hearts. Seems to me that there might be another cause.

March 27, 2009, 09:24 PM
She's right, a lot of the guns do come from the US. Of course, they're guns that the Mexican military and police bought from the US. When you have lots of corrupt military and police it's no surprise that they don't come unarmed.

March 27, 2009, 09:51 PM
We all know that they are walking into the gun shops along the border and picking up all the machine guns / assault rifles. We need to stop the sales here in the US of unregulated full autos over the counter. We are after all causing all of Mexico's problems.

Now as to reality, I highly doubt that gun sales here in the US have any impact on the crime happening in Mexico. The problem with that country is their totally corrupt government. The people of Mexico need more guns, they then need to overthrow their corrupt leaders and put into place someone like Washington, Jefferson, or even Franklin. Until that happens, Mexico will remain a quagmire.

As a small though, we really should have just taken over the country. We captured Mexico City, and they though that we were going to stay. It would have been much better for them had we done so.

March 27, 2009, 09:58 PM

I "found" a rap on-line about Hillary and the assault weapons in Mexico. You'd enjoy reading about. It is rather "direct", so I can't post it here. :) PM me if you want a copy. It's rated PG-113 years.


March 27, 2009, 10:00 PM
And if Mexicans use American cars for hit and run in Mexico it's our fault too? Only a Democrat can see the logic in that...

March 27, 2009, 10:00 PM
Here you go:

Thursday, March 26, 2009


Hillary's Foreign-Soil Sales Pitch For Reinstating the Assault Weapons Ban

Hillary Clinton, speaking in Mexico City yesterday:

We believe that we have announced a plan to use every tool at our current disposal through administrative actions to track illegal guns, to arrest and punish those who are trafficking in illegal guns, to share more information with the Mexican Government so that they can also track and seize these guns. Obviously, I am someone who supported the assault weapons ban which was passed in 1994, but it was passed with an expiration date and it expired ten years later. I, as a senator, supported measures to try to reinstate it. Politically, that is a very big hurdle in our Congress. But there may be some approaches that could be acceptable, and we are exploring those.

Certainly, the export of assault weapons and illegal weapons is something that has grave consequences for Mexico. And we’re going to look at whatever is possible that we can do ourselves within the Administration, and we will explore with Congress other steps to take.

Those who traffic in "illegal guns" are already violating the law — making the reinstatement of the Assault Weapons Ban superfluous.

Secondly, notice this account in the Los Angeles Times from March 15, spotlighted by Instapundit:

Traffickers have escalated their arms race, acquiring military-grade weapons, including hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions and antitank rockets with firepower far beyond the assault rifles and pistols that have dominated their arsenals.

Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semiauto- matic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.

Obviously, "hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions and antitank rockets" are not available in the civilian market. If those weapons are coming from America, it means that someone in the military is secretly selling this stuff on the black market — again, a factor not influenced by the expiration of the assault weapons ban.

Prince Yamato
March 27, 2009, 10:08 PM
Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semiauto- matic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.

Change your focus, idiots...

March 27, 2009, 10:33 PM
this whole blame USA for mexican guns is absolutely illogical.

These cartels are going to act like any rebel political group in Latin America. They are simply going to buy bulk new or used AKs on the world firarms market.

They are NOT going to pay for the firearms to be disassembled, have their receivers removed, shipped to the USA, reassembled, sold to the distributor, sold to the gunshops and then finally sold to straw purchasers to run them across the border.

They are simply going to buy a crates of AKs that never set foot in the USA.

Now, handguns are a bit of a different matter. There are a ton of surplus makarovs and PPK knockoffs and taurus/rossi guns in Mexico. Yes, some of the handguns come from the USA. These are of course, by our law, clearly marked as manufactured or imported to City, State, USA.

Hence you take that 1 to 5% of handguns marked USA and ask the BATF or FBI to run a check on them. Then you can claim the majority of guns traced by the FBI come from the USA.

People who are ignorant think that ALL guns are traced and hence MOST guns are coming from the USA

March 27, 2009, 10:43 PM
I don't know where the mexican guns are coming from, but i do know that if the supply dries up, they'll find a new avenue elsewhere. Just ask Viktor Bout.

March 27, 2009, 10:58 PM
Legalize the drugs and most of the problem goes away,so yes America is part of the drug problem.

March 27, 2009, 11:22 PM
Drugs should be made legal, like vodka is legal. Prices would come down to the joy of all meth heads. I doubt anyone I know would start using it though, even at $50 a pound, or $1 a pound. The money society would save on cops and ER personel could be put towards free public drug rehab centers. The drug dealers of tomorrow can stay home and sleep soundly with a clean conscience at night, like today's liquor store salesmen do, and earn good and steady money. The big obstacle to everybody's happiness is the government, as usual.

Bill of Ojai
March 28, 2009, 12:27 AM
Does nobody know that Mexican importers have had great relationships with China for years and years? I'd bet a good percentage of these guns come from China through leaky Mexican seaports.

March 28, 2009, 01:06 AM
With all our aid to Mexico all we need to do is twist their arm a little bit to join the western world. If they allowed for foreign investment they could be a first world country with a growing middle class.

Legalizing guns in Mexico and drugs in the US could make the problem evaporate overnight, but corrupt politicos on both sides of the border get too much power out of the status quo.

Hungry Seagull
March 28, 2009, 01:12 AM
Let's see. 1600 miles of border. Assuming a Soldier plus three support logisitics for every 50 yards each 8 hours times 24/7 will work out to a deployment of approximately three full Corps or about 221,000 total not including support elements necessary to maintain three Corps in theater.

That is my idea of a secure border.

As far as Hillary, I really need to keep my big mouth shut. Politics is not a good way for me to go through. :cuss:

March 28, 2009, 03:36 AM
To date, Mexico refuses to give serial numbers
Says who? Mexico doesn't publish them, but does give them to BATFE. I've seen traces and personally viewed weapons that certainly did not come from military sales.

However, quite of few of these Mexican shooting incidents are accompanied by hand grenades and rocket fire. Those certainly didn't come from southern AZ dealers.

jim in Anchorage
March 28, 2009, 05:07 AM
Lets look at this. It seems some are claiming the guns in Mexico are from the US[a complete joke] so "our" politicians are wringing there hands in despair and calling for more US gun laws. The fact that Mexico is shipping tons of cocaine to this country is just a footnote? Who should be pissed at who?

March 28, 2009, 05:09 AM
I think siesmic sensors, razor wire, concrete fence, mines, and the occasional hot dog vendor, would do much for securing the border.

As far as shared responsibility, I call BS. The Mexican gov't has shown no inclination to prevent passage from it's side, of it's people nor the ones from all the way down to the tip of South America.

Mexico is in a quagmire that it's own apathy, indifference, and corruption has created. Blaming US made weapons on the problem, I don't think so.

March 28, 2009, 05:20 AM
the smuggling of semiauto- matic and conventional weapons
Woah semi auto weapons are no longer "conventional" weapons.
If your not operating a bolt then it is unconventional!

It is just looking for ways to further ban and restrict guns. Some of the border states have great firearm freedoms, and they want to end the "loopholes" of freedom.

Restricting the 2nd Amendment for another country even if it was a legitimate reason would be wrong.
Just like restricting the first Amendment such as certain books in America because they create problems or riots overseas would be wrong.
There is a lot of content on the internet in the US that is illegal abroad, yet we don't ban the content here.

The Mexican government is corrupt. The ATF has even arrested Mexican police, including some higher level police in the US trying to buy guns.
The US government sells many ARs and tons of other military equipment to Mexico.
There is so many billions of dollars involved in the drug trade that cartels can get whatever is necessary for thier operations, and have many sources for things like firearms. From the Mexican government at both LEO and military levels, from South American governments, from contacts in the US, even contacts overseas.
They are are spending millions building submarines in the rainforest to smuggle drugs into the US!

It would not only fail to disarm the cartels, but it is simply wrong to restrict American freedoms within America's borders for any foriegn nation.
I don't care if copies of a book cause riots in your nation, you are not restricting our First Amendment rights to reduce your riots.
The same goes for the 2nd Amendment.

March 28, 2009, 05:44 AM
If they ever provide documentation of actual guns and serial #s, we'll see how many are US-taxpayer funded. There are a huge number of American guns in Mexico.

The Clinton and Bush administrations both sent billions in aid against the drug war, including military hardware. As corrupt as Mexico is portrayed, I expect that the drug lords have all the M-16s, M9 Berettas (and uniforms, and trained ex-Mexican army folks) that might want.

And if they don't have enough military surplus, a large international drug ring is going to buy weapons wholesale, from the cheapest reliable international dealer. Whey would they bother sneaking American weapons down, when they can contract directly with Chinese companies? Reliable and cheaper.

On the other hand, I can well imagine illegal aliens who return home for visits smuggling weapons back, for themselves and their families. Mexico has strict gun control laws, and also happens to have high violent crime rates. If illegal guns are documented, they'll be the gun confiscated from somebody protecting herself from a kidnapper/mugger/rapist.

The Lone Haranguer
March 28, 2009, 02:56 PM
She is partly right about "shared responsibility." She is wrong about the parties responsible.

Owen Sparks
March 28, 2009, 03:48 PM
Hillary is a collectivist. These people think in terms of groups, the tribe, the race, society, the common good etc. They don't see what is good for the individual whose rights and property may be sacrificed for the good of the group.

March 28, 2009, 04:08 PM
I like Mexicans( a few friends and relatives)...I just can NOT stand Mexico.Beautiful country with a government that seems to straddle caste/class distinctions,socialism and kleptocracy all at the same time.

March 28, 2009, 04:14 PM
Maybe it's a setup from our government. The Democrats see the gun violence in Mexico, put one and one together, call their politicians up, ask them to officially demand America tighten their gun laws. The Mexican demands come and so Obama can pull our guns from our hands with a "legit" reason, later advancing socialism upon us, which is what he wanted to do in the first place. :barf:

March 28, 2009, 04:39 PM
Luckily the Sec. State doesn't set internal US policy.

Unfortunately, the Sec. State has influence in the Executive Branch.

Luckily, any such laws would have to be generated and passed by Congress and that's unlikely as long as we actively keep our congresscritters aware that there's no support and many hazards associated with voting "YES" on such legislation.

March 28, 2009, 04:45 PM
I watched Greta both nights on this topic and man she is getting beat up on the Greta Wire thing. More than a few people I know including myself have written to Fox to have her Make clear her anti gun stance on the air and that of her husband.

We are also asking that the other Fox anchors (O'Reilly, Hannity and Beck take her to task as they would if this had been an anchor on another network.

Finally, we are asking that she be fired and replaced by someone else preferrably for me by Laura Ingraham.

I have started a Facebook group called "For News should Fire Greta Van Susteren"

There ya go....

March 28, 2009, 05:13 PM
Unfortunately, the Sec. State has influence in the Executive Branch.

I don't think he needs any help with this idea.

Old Fuff
March 28, 2009, 07:43 PM
Luckily, any such laws would have to be generated and passed by Congress and that's unlikely as long as we actively keep our congresscritters aware that there's no support and many hazards associated with voting "YES" on such legislation.

Right now I don’t see that happening. What is far more likely is that the BATF&E will sneak some new regulations into the Federal Register that would ban further imports of semi-automatic military or military style firearms, as well as parts or other components. Additionally ammunition made to be used in such firearms would be prohibited too. All of this would be based on the “sporting use” clause in the 1968 GCA, and no new legislation would be required. If nothing else it would show the Mexican government that we were doing something. :banghead:

March 28, 2009, 07:45 PM
The amusing thing is that of course it is already very much "go to jail forever illegal laws" against bringing guns and ammunition into Mexico. What more laws here are going to do when Mexico won't enforce the laws they have is beyond me.

March 28, 2009, 07:54 PM

Fox News was reporting that Mexico refused to give the serial numbers to the USA...BATFE. I don't want to see a token 10 serial numbers...I want to see 100%...publish them. Let's trace 100% of them. Before my rights are diminished, I want to see the sellers jailed. Until I see a 100% list, the traces and transfers, I don't believe a word out of DC. Let's enforce the laws we already have.


March 28, 2009, 08:43 PM
I wonder where the cartels got those 40mm grenade launchers like the US Marines use and the boatload of 40mm grenades?

The Lone Haranguer
March 28, 2009, 09:34 PM
hso, you mention luck twice, but that is not something to depend on. :uhoh:

March 28, 2009, 09:57 PM
Says who? Mexico doesn't publish them, but does give them to BATFE. I've seen traces and personally viewed weapons that certainly did not come from military sales.

Not according to BATFE. The serial numbers that they're running are the results of operations that seized weapons on American soil. The Mexican government would be highly embarrassed should the Mexicans turn over serial numbers, and have them traced back to shipment to the Mexican Police, security forces, or Military.

Tracing M16 rifles is going to be pretty much useless. The US has given them away like candy for almost 50 years. Sure, they came from America, but where did they originally go?

As far as Hillary goes, she's right, American drug consumption is partly responsible for the market and trouble in Mexico. Instead of the pie-in-the-sky "let's legalize all drugs", unless we want to make drug related medical care exempt from COBRA, and insurance, we'd be better off making drug use a mandatory 20 years of hard labor, with no parole. She wouldn't like that, as much of the casual drug use is in the Liberal support of the Democratic Party. However, it WOULD be "for the children."

Hillary, and her husband's retreads in Obama's Cabinet, have now made three stupid decisions. Holder's AWB statement, The Sec. Of Defenses decision to mutilate fired brass, and Hillary's statement about her going to Congress to stop gun sales. NONE of these were Obama's intention, and two of the three have been slapped down by Congress. It would appear that, if she couldn't be President, she is determined to be the power that is either behind the throne, or brings down the President.

I love watching Liberal cannibalism in action in politics.:neener:

March 28, 2009, 10:21 PM
Y'all did a good job of keeping between the political gutters, but I think that we've said all that can be said at this point and stay on The High Road.

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