Question about sights for those that use bolt action rifles for bear defense in AK...


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saturno_v
March 28, 2009, 03:00 AM
A quick question...

The vast majority of bolt action rifles nowdays come without iron sights....unless they are "African" short range calibers or some other special models.

So the ones of you that, for example, use a regular 300 Magnum or a 338 Win Mag as wildlife defence rifle, you install iron sights on it for close range encounters or use other type of sighting devices that attach to the scope mount???

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jim in Anchorage
March 28, 2009, 03:12 AM
No. The single plane sighting of a optic sight is onbeatable.

caribou
March 28, 2009, 05:08 AM
I carry and use an M-39 Sako built Mosin Nagant, and my sights are always open.
Sights often dont matter in the two or less seconds that you have to "Git 'er done"......do you shoot a shot gun?? Lead down??
Ive never had to stop a Bear charge, But I have shot many Bears, and always try to bust the spine/brain with the first shot.I have dropped most Bears before they knew I was there, and most that did know I was around were trying to get away ASAP. I have shot them broadside as well and he went 50 yards Uphill, with a busted front leg, blown lungs and hole through his aorta.
In Alaska Your rifle IS your bear stopping gun.
The only way to Truly "Stop!" a Bear is to blow out his Central Nerves System, meaning his brain/spine, and that would be "Correct Shot placement"

blitzen
March 29, 2009, 01:39 AM
I have a Leupold 2x7 European with the very heavy reticle on mine. It's mostly just personal preference. Open sights or a low power scope, niether is wrong.

hardluk1
March 29, 2009, 11:06 AM
Short barrled 12 gauge ,heavy slugs and gost site on the rear with a highly reflective front site ,something you will not miss. Or if in usa not canada a big bore pistol. Just besure you can control it. You did say defense so your not hunting them??? Shot gun ,no rifle.

Silverado6x6
March 29, 2009, 12:45 PM
On my Winchester Model 70 in .375H&H when I bought it used many years ago it belonged to a bush pilot here in Alaska, he had cut the stock short and the barrel was cut down to 21", it has flip up rear sights. I mounted a Trijicon 1 1/2x 4 x20 fiber optic/tritium scope with the amber triangle on with Leupold QR quick release rings. The scope has an 85' field of view and is brightly illuminated day or night, I found a Safari Super Express stock for it with an ebony cap, redid all the checkering and mounted a sorbothane recoil pad. My local gunsmith buddy threaded the barrel and installed a magnum muzzle brake. He also did a matte black baked epoxy finish on everything. I glass bedded it and replaced the screws with socket heads.

If I was in deep brush I would use my old trusty Model 11 semi auto shotgun with rifled slugs though.

muledeer
April 3, 2009, 08:33 PM
If the bear is close enough to bite you don't need sights. If the bear is far enough away to use the scope, use it.

Shotgun slugs, unless Brenneke or other hardened penetrators, are a particularly poor choice for bears. They are made of soft lead and don't penetrate well. There are numerous cases over the years of various municipal law enforcement officers here trying to use their duty shotguns with issued slugs to kill nuisance bears -- with generally very poor results.

I would far prefer to use a .308 rifle to a 12 gauge slug, because sufficient penetration to break important body parts is the only solution to a bear fight.

Dennis

MCgunner
April 3, 2009, 09:40 PM
Shotgun slugs, unless Brenneke or other hardened penetrators, are a particularly poor choice for bears. They are made of soft lead and don't penetrate well. There are numerous cases over the years of various municipal law enforcement officers here trying to use their duty shotguns with issued slugs to kill nuisance bears -- with generally very poor results.

I would far prefer to use a .308 rifle to a 12 gauge slug, because sufficient penetration to break important body parts is the only solution to a bear fight.

Dennis

Very interesting thoughts here. I've wondered about foster slugs on an animal that tough. The netsperts all seem to chime 12 gauge when bears are mentioned, usually some guy from Alabama or somewhere. :rolleyes: I've always thought a rifle would be better. I've said it before, but if I lived up there, I'd think a LOT about the Browning BLR in .325WSM. Handy lever gun in a major magnum caliber, sounds made to order. Only problem with it is that I don't know if there's a store in Alaska with the ammo. LOL I handload, would probably have to handload it if I lived there, but that's not a problem. I think Midway ships there. :D

muledeer
April 3, 2009, 11:18 PM
Stores in Ketchikan, Craig and Juneau all have .325 WSM ammo; any place with a gun store has it or can get it. Handloading is best, of course.

I don't know anyone who has shot or seen shot a bear with a Foster-style slug who thinks it's a good idea. Brenneke slugs, being hardened, saboted and of boosted velocity, act about like a .45-70 or thereabouts. .50 caliber 500 gr hard lead at 1600 fps, if I remember my Brenneke statistics correctly.

As my signature line notes -- breaking important body parts is the requirement for stopping bears, or anything else. Penetration is the key to breaking body parts, ergo -- projectiles that will penetrate and break things are necessary.

I don't care for the BLR's, personally, but if you like them and test one chambered for a sufficient cartridge enough to know it is stone reliable, then it would be a good choice.

Dennis

Sunray
April 5, 2009, 12:42 AM
"...If the bear is close enough to bite you ..." It's too late. You'll never be fast enough if Yogi is that close.
"...bolt action rifles nowdays come without iron sights..." Yep. However, a Rem 700BDL comes with iron sights. Not good ones though. And the .300 RUM is a big as it gets. You can get larger calibres from their custom shop. You'd have to learn how to shoot 'em though.

muledeer
April 5, 2009, 01:59 AM
Never been there, have you? Everyone I know who has actually "defended" themselves against bears, of either species, shot them at close range and didn't use sights or scopes. If they're more than 10 or 15 yards out, they aren't really a threat...

There are lots of adequate to outstanding rifles sold with iron sights -- Ruger Hawkeyes in .416, .375 and .338 RCM; CZ 550's in .375 and .458; and a number of others.

If you don't know how to shoot it, it won't matter where the bear is or how fast it's moving.

It's not a big magical deal...you just have to pay attention and use the right tools the right way at the right time.

Dennis

blindhari
April 5, 2009, 03:44 AM
I have been in the same area as grizzly but never at any time did I get to an area where there was a possibility of big coastal bears. I do have a friend in Canada who guides for the big ones so I emailed him. Stu says that when a client screws up he depends on a marlin guide rifle chambered in 45/70 to drop the bear up close and uses a ghost ring. His cousin and partner uses a 375 holland and hollond double rifle with a post shotgun site. So there are at least two guides using iron sights to make sure the client lives long enough to pay the bill.

blindhari

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