SKS. Difference in Yugo and Romanian?


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jkcal436
March 28, 2009, 02:15 PM
I have a Romanian SKS and would like one more. I see Yugos for sale everywhere. Whats the difference.

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MTMilitiaman
March 28, 2009, 04:03 PM
The Yugo is probably the better constructed rifle. The Yugos are probably second only to the original Russians in terms of build quality and functionality. My Yugo can put five rounds of Wolf into two MOA at one-hundred yards and has never missed a beat. They are over built to the point of being nearly indestructible. The only downside of the rifle besides, possibly, its weight, is that it lacks the chrome lined bore of the other SKS variants.

The Yugos are easily distinguishable by the grenade launching apparatus on the muzzle for use launching NATO-spec rifled grenades.

doubs43
March 28, 2009, 04:06 PM
Not as common is the Yugo Model 59 without the grenade luncher. They are also nice rifles if you're lucky enough to find one.

Badger Arms
March 28, 2009, 04:07 PM
The chrome lining factor is HUGE! If you get the chance, pay extra for the Ruskie guns. The Yugo is constructed well, yes, but it was designed as a grenade launcher... and used that way. Most of the ones you see in this country are tight and good weapons. Just clean the bore with the same care you give your hunting rifle and you'll be fine.

maskedman504
March 28, 2009, 04:24 PM
The chrome lining factor is HUGE!

If you plan on engaging in jungle warfare, absolutely must have.
If you plan on engaging in beach landings, absolutely must have.
If you don't like to clean guns, semi must have.

Since you are probably firing corrosive ammo from your SKS, you should clean it right after shooting.

Otherwise it's just a nice if you have it but not neccesarily gotta have it. It sure doesn't hurt, but the average shooter won't notice any difference. Just my personal opinion.

rklessdriver
March 28, 2009, 05:49 PM
The Yugo is probably the better constructed rifle.

This is not even close to true.

The Romanian is a far better rifle.

It dosen't have that stupid gerenad launching apparatus attached to the front of it.

No turn off valve attached to the gas system that instantly turns you semi auto into a single shot.

It has a crome lined bore and chamber.

IMO the Romanian SKS is second in quality only to the Russian SKS. I have a 1950 Tula Russian, a milled 80's Norinco and a 1959 Romanian. They all shoot very good (I won't clain Sub MOA accuracy out of them thou) and are comparable in quality. I have passed on buying a number of Yugo 59/66 in the past years because for me they point like a nose heavy broom stick.

If you plan on launching Rifle Grenades the Yugo is your rifle. As long as your doing something else the Romanian is a far better rifle.

As far as the crome lined chamber and bore being a big deal for the average shooter. It is a big deal to everyone with a 7.62X39 because of all the well priced corrosive Yugo ammo out there.
Will

elmerfudd
March 28, 2009, 07:22 PM
Corrosive ammo doesn't make any difference so long as you have the sense God gave a rock and clean your rifle after shooting it.

The gas valve is basically a plus. Just leave it on all the time unless you plan on reloading your brass.

The Yugos are heavy and clunky though and that's their real downside IMO. You've basically got a 7.62x39 that's the size and weight of an M1 Garand.

dafitch
March 28, 2009, 07:45 PM
Agree with rklessdriver-

Romanian is King. I own both the Yugo and the Romanian, and side by side, the quality of the Romanian is better.

maskedman504
March 28, 2009, 10:14 PM
I own a Yugo and an un-issued Russian. Why are we debating the second best?

Russian is the best, the rest are the rest. :eek:

zoom6zoom
March 29, 2009, 11:13 AM
Here's a pic of them side by side for comparison - Yugo 59/66 on top, the center rifle is the Romy. The one on the bottom is an Egyptian Rashid.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/zoom6zoom/gun%20stuff/Collection/SKSgroup.jpg
Russian (1954):
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/zoom6zoom/gun%20stuff/Collection/RussianSKSright.jpg
Albanian (1978):
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/zoom6zoom/gun%20stuff/Collection/albaniansksR.jpg

WardenWolf
March 29, 2009, 12:44 PM
Many of the best Commie guns come from Romania. Not counting the WASR's (which are hybrids chopped up and reassembled here), pretty much everything that came out of Romania was incredibly good quality. Some of Romania's guns are even better than their Russian counterparts (Tokarev pistols, for instance).

Mr White
March 29, 2009, 12:46 PM
Don't discount the enjoyment factor of launching tennis balls into orbit with a Yugo, a grenade adapter and some blanks! You'll instantly become the guy that everyone wants to watch. I've met some good people and got to shoot some pretty cool guns because of my tennis ball exploits. :)

JR47
March 29, 2009, 03:48 PM
The Romanian guns are the closest to the Russian in quality and parts. The stocks of the latest group aren't in the best condition, but they've been in storage for decades.

Chrome-lined bores are for more than jungle ops, or water landings. They add protection to the bore and chamber that non-lined guns don't enjoy. The fact of the matter is, corrosive ammunition, in a damp environment, can start to produce salts in as little as 30 minutes. Think about that on a day when a passing rain shower interrupts your shooting session, and/or you're shooting several guns. Unlike wishful thinking, the products of corrosion won't go away. They are also cumulative, adding up over time. Many Yugo SKS rifles show that accumulation in the form of cloudy bores and leaking gas piston valves. These rifles were used in the late unpleasantness in the former Yugoslav Republic.

Many of the Russian, Albanian, and Romanian guns never got more than a proof-firing.

MTMilitiaman
March 29, 2009, 07:36 PM
This is not even close to true.

The Romanian is a far better rifle.


Better, perhaps. Far better, probably not.

The Yugo is more overbuilt. I can't speak for the Romanian, but the Yugo is completely milled as opposed to rifles of some other origins that have more stamped parts, esp among the trigger group. The Yugo is heavier and more over built because Yugoslavian ammo was loaded hotter.

I have had a late-model Russian before, and the Yugo is just as accurate. None of the Chinese rifles I've had a chance to shoot have compared.

Comparing my current Yugo to my Russian (unfortunately sold to pay utilities when I was in college), the Yugo is heavier, but just as accurate and reliable. And because corrosive ammo for the 7.62x39 is virtually non-existent, I don't consider the lack of chrome lining a big deal.

My Yugo has been my truck rifle in the past. It has bounced around behind the seat of an old 76 Ford F150, dealt with the condensation, and showed no signs of corrosion, despite experiencing rare maintenance.

I'll admit my experience with Romanian weapons is limited to my Romanian WASR. That rifle has always been reliable, but it is a bottom of the barrel rifle compared to AKs of other origins and I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that the Romanian SKS would be of similar overall quality. But to say that the Romanian SKS is far superior to the Yugo, I think is an exaggeration.

I consider the Yugo SKS to be the poor man's M1A. It is more accurate than it has to be, absolutely reliable, and end of the world durable.

And lets face it, plenty of older military rifles experienced plenty of moisture with little maintenance in times of war before chrome lining became common and did fine. It used to bother me, but having put my Yugo through its paces, I have no reason to believe it is even an issue for most normal use. And in fact, as non-chrome lined barrels as a general rule tend to be more accurate than chrome lined barrels, I believe lack of chrome lining is one reason why the Yugos may be so accurate.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l308/MTMilitiaman/Guns/SKSbayonet.jpg

Duke of Doubt
March 29, 2009, 07:59 PM
I have a Romanian and a Yugoslavian. The Romanian is worn but very nice; the Yugo is much less worn, also pretty nice. They are quite different in several functional ways, as discussed, and in a few other superficial ones. I would say that the quality of the machining, the fitting and the finishing on the Romanian metal is significantly better than that on the Yugoslavian. Unfortunately the Romanian wood was lacquered, and the lacquer on mine was worn off in places. Some oil finish fixed that up pretty well, but the appearance is not perfect like the ones pictured above. Fine by me -- I like my vintage guns to have some character. The operation of the Romanian SKS is so smoooth it's unbelievable, and its accuracy -- particularly with Golden Tiger, of all things -- is exceptional for an SKS.

I honestly believe the Romanians are a little bit better than the Russians. The Russians would be second (allowing for possible variation), the Yugoslavians third. The Albanians probably next, and the various Chinese makers and factories well below all of these. The East German and Vietnamese SKS rifles are comparatively rare, and I haven't handled or shot either of them. North Korea is said to have made them. Haven't even seen one in person.

sarduy
March 29, 2009, 08:10 PM
Quote:
The Yugo is probably the better constructed rifle.

^ TRUE!


This is not even close to true.
Yes it is!

The Romanian is a far better rifle.
in what way? just the chome lined barrel?

It dosen't have that stupid gerenad launching apparatus attached to the front of it.
That's true...a yugo sks can launch dummy and real grenades, golf balls and other cool stuff :neener:

No turn off valve attached to the gas system that instantly turns you semi auto into a single shot.
Ohh the valve...you can use the sks as a semi auto or switch the valve and use it like a Bolt-action (very accurate this way)

It has a crome lined bore and chamber.
just clean your yugo SKS and you'll be fine it's just an option.

i own a yugo and all i can say is I LOVE IT.

http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/40653/2451305740095461090S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2451305740095461090tDHHhq)

http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/43087/2678948860095461090S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2678948860095461090xcbGZC)

Paladin_Hammer
March 29, 2009, 08:13 PM
Yugo's lack the chrome-lined barrel that you MUST HAVE if you want to shoot lots of surplus and low-cost ammo. Anything with a Berdan Primer (Wolf, Brown/Silver/Golden Bear, Privi-Pratzi, etc) will eventually eat away at the rifle.

Thing is, and I can't confirm this with a range report just yet as I'm now lacking a Chinese, Russian, or other non-Yugo rifle to compare with, Yugo's seem amazingly accurate as far as the SKS goes. At 50 yards one gentlemen I met was getting five shots within two inches from a bipod. I never remember seeing that in person before. There was a post on THR awhile back where one gentlemen had a target with 20 some rounds through it, all within six inches, all at 100 yards, with a Yugo. He only shot the 20.

If I could find a reasonably priced SKS in Missouri that isn't a Yugo I could probably find out whether or not there is any truth to Yugo's being better as far as accuracy is concerned. Believe me, when I find a Chinese or a Russian for under $270 dollars, I'll have a report up the following weekend. So far, my buddy Chuck and I are amazed with his Yugo. So long as we use a bipod or a bench, we never miss a 12 inch by 12 inch target, and rarely do five rounds escape 3 inches from what we were aiming at (flyers are the spawn of the devil).

maskedman504
March 29, 2009, 08:25 PM
Yugo's lack the chrome-lined barrel that you MUST HAVE if you want to shoot lots of surplus and low-cost ammo. Anything with a Berdan Primer (Wolf, Brown/Silver/Golden Bear, Privi-Pratzi, etc) will eventually eat away at the rifle.

I clean my rifle, so I don't worry about corrosive ammo. :confused:

Paladin_Hammer
March 29, 2009, 08:45 PM
I clean my rifle, so I don't worry about corrosive ammo.

I wish we were all as disciplined as you. I know I'm guilty of forgetting to clean my rifles after every shoot (but getting a deer is just so damn exciting! :D )

Real quick maskedman504, have you ever noticed "Bubbles" in your SKS after you use it? I've heard that with some cleaners that soapy bubbles will show up in the barrel after cleaning. Any truth to that? Or just here-say?

maskedman504
March 29, 2009, 08:49 PM
I don't know, I consider guns an investment; they are expensive, so I clean them. Also, in order to them to be reliable, they must be clean, so I clean them.

zoom6zoom
March 30, 2009, 03:02 AM
The Yugoslavian's didn't omit the chroming of the barrels because they thought it made them more accurate, or anything like that - they just didn't have significant native sources of that strategic metal and chose not to be dependent upon a foreign source.

MTMilitiaman
March 30, 2009, 03:08 PM
The Yugoslavian's didn't omit the chroming of the barrels because they thought it made them more accurate,

True. But their motivations for doing so are irrelevant to current or perspective owners. Regardless of why they did it (and they did do it because they lacked adequate chronium reserves as well as proper relations with Mother Russia to get it from them.) a side effect is probably an increase in accuracy.

JR47
March 30, 2009, 04:47 PM
The primary weight difference between a Yugo, and any other SKS, is in the wood used for the stock. Yugoslavian weapons use a native teak wood, which is heavier than even the laminated stocks of the Russians.

The Russian and Romanian guns are also forged and milled.

I own a Model 59, a 59/66 and a 59/66A1. None of them is as smooth operating as my 1951 Russian SKS.

Again, you run a better chance of finding that your Yugo has barrel wear, a step-crown, and corrosion in the gas system, than with any of the others.

WardenWolf
March 30, 2009, 04:49 PM
Anything with a Berdan Primer (Wolf, Brown/Silver/Golden Bear, Privi-Pratzi, etc) will eventually eat away at the rifle.

No, no, no. There are non-corrosive Berdan primers. Wolf uses non-corrosive primers. I'm fairly certain the Bear ammos also use non-corrosive on new commercial ammo (their earliest offerings WERE corrosive, however). I'm also fairly certain PRVI only uses boxer primers now, too. All the Wolf ammo I've seen that comes from their plant is boxer primed, along with their self-branded ammo.

wally
March 30, 2009, 05:07 PM
No, no, no. There are non-corrosive Berdan primers. Wolf uses non-corrosive primers. I'm fairly certain the Bear ammos also use non-corrosive on new commercial ammo (their earliest offerings WERE corrosive, however). I'm also fairly certain PRVI only uses boxer primers now, too. All the Wolf ammo I've seen that comes from their plant is boxer primed, along with their self-branded ammo.
_

Correct! But there is still a good bit of Yugo and other surplus 7.62x39 corrosive ammo out there.

I shoot a good bit of corrosive ammo, but only when I know nothing will prevent me from cleaning immediately afterwards.

--wally.

mljdeckard
March 30, 2009, 05:24 PM
All of the Wolf I've ever used is non-corrosive. I wish I had more, I would PLOW through it with the Yugo I just Tapcoed out. And honestly, I think you would have to do a lot of shooting over a long period of time to do any damage that would be easily noticeable in the performance of the rifle.

maskedman504
March 30, 2009, 05:25 PM
The primary weight difference between a Yugo, and any other SKS, is in the wood used for the stock. Yugoslavian weapons use a native teak wood, which is heavier than even the laminated stocks of the Russians.

Do you own a Yugo? They are front! heavy, not butt heavy. This is directly attributable to the thicker barrel, and, in a small part, to the grenade launcher attached to the end of the muzzle.

MTMilitiaman
March 30, 2009, 08:59 PM
I just dropped my Yugo into a fiberglass stock and while there was a noticeable decrease in weight, it was not as much as I would think it was if the stock was the culprit for the rifle's weight.

mljdeckard
March 30, 2009, 10:42 PM
And you have to decide if it's worth it. A lighter stock will produce more felt recoil, which made me want to add the muzzle brake, which.....how much did I pay for this rifle again?

MTMilitiaman
March 30, 2009, 11:19 PM
Recoil? SKS? PaH-leeeezzz....

mljdeckard
March 31, 2009, 01:09 AM
Well, also, I needed to add one more part to be 922r compliant anyway. It came with the kit.

RP88
March 31, 2009, 03:15 AM
Don't know if it has been said yet, but:

Wolf ammo and other new-mafg cheapo ammo is not corrosive. You're surplus ammo from the Com-Bloc, however, is corrosive in most instances.

jkcal436
March 31, 2009, 06:13 PM
So if I use non-corrosive ammo...performance in the yugo and romanian is about the same?

jkcal436
April 12, 2009, 10:41 PM
Read below...I answered my own question.

jkcal436
April 12, 2009, 11:34 PM
"All Russian, Romanian, and Yugoslavian SKS's have a milled receiver/trigger guard and a barrel that is threaded into the receiver. Chinese SKS's made before 1967 also are milled/threaded." from SKS History http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=18342.0

JR47
April 13, 2009, 08:10 PM
Do you own a Yugo? They are front! heavy, not butt heavy. This is directly attributable to the thicker barrel, and, in a small part, to the grenade launcher attached to the end of the muzzle.

Try referring to post 23. The rest of it.

The barrel of the Model 59/66 is no appreciable amount heavier than any other SKS rifle. Yes, the grenade launcher adds several OUNCES to the weight, including the attendant gas control gear.

Once you've read my entire post, you'll note that I have a Model 59. That's the Yugo SKS without the grenade launcher. It's still heavier than a standard Romanian, Russian, or Albanian SKS. It's not that mythical "heavy barrel" at all, it's the teak stock.

Again, the Russian, Romanian, and Albanian SKS rifles saw little to no use whatsoever. They have been srored since production. The Yugo SKS rifles were used in the late unpleasantness of Kosovo, and it's surroundings. They show it in the form of corrosion, step-crowning, and general wear. There are those offered in virtually new condition, but the prices reflect it.

Duke of Doubt
April 13, 2009, 08:49 PM
JR47: "Again, the Russian, Romanian, and Albanian SKS rifles saw little to no use whatsoever."

Some of the Romanians saw quite a bit of use, both in training and in the Revolution of 1989.

Escu: "Ceaucescu!"
Eanu: "Gezundheit!"

At least one THR member appears somewhere in at least one of these clips of the fighting. Good shots of PSL, SKS and AK-patterns, as well as Tokarevs and a few others:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4xkYr-YNxo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGQnc80S2wM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrk_0v48_vE

On Christmas morning, 1989, President Nicolai Ceaucescu and his wife Elena were summarily executed for crimes against the people of Romania. Any would-be socialist dictator would do well to ponder this episode and to learn from it.

JR47
April 14, 2009, 03:31 PM
Some of the Romanians saw quite a bit of use, both in training and in the Revolution of 1989.

As the regular Romanian forces were equipped with the AK47/74 rifles, the use of SKS rifles would have been relegated mostly to irregulars. They would have been obtained in fairly small numbers, compared with the overall stocks, and their use would have precluded their return to storage, as I doubt that many of the participants would have seen the necessity of returning them to the depots. Rather, they are probably buried in preservatives in the forests.

The total numbers of Yugoslav SKS rifles used during the dissolution of the Republic was much higher, with fewer remaining unused stocks of rifles. The Yugoslavian military turned them over in large numbers to the Serbian irregular forces, and they were in use for most of a decade. That is born out by the reports of problems involving corrosion, and the gas leakage resulting from it in the cut-off for the launcher. The presence of step-crowns also indicated prior usage. The other SKS rifles rarely, if ever have a step-crown performed upon them. That was almost solely the Mosin nagant rifles.

Funderb
April 14, 2009, 03:37 PM
I don't know. Our NORINCO sks blows the yugo out of the water with precision and functionality. And weight.

oh yeah, and about equal condition.

hawk_sixsix
April 14, 2009, 03:47 PM
Two years ago, a batch of Yugo's came in to the shop, completely covered in cosmoline, with names and towns carved in the stocks in Serbo-Croatian. One of the batch looked a little better than the rest; it was a numbers matching, unissued, pristine rifle, complete with bayonet (often missing) and nightsights. I globbed the cosmo back on and immediately bought it for the low low price of $149! :neener:

It's accurate and reliable, and built so durable it'll be around long after we're gone. I'm a BIG fan of the Yugo SKS. Haven't touched my Norinco since.

WardenWolf
April 14, 2009, 04:09 PM
Ultimately, though, Romania makes some damn fine guns. They only get a bad name because Century is their primary importer and they modify the guns in-house. If you get an unaltered Romanian gun, you're going to get an accurate and reliable shooter. Romania has always been a cut above almost all the former Combloc nations.

Plinkeriffic
April 14, 2009, 04:45 PM
I posted earlier today about how to tell the difference among SKS's with regard to origin and year of manufacture, and drew few responses. I appreciate the comparisons in this thread but have to ask

How do I tell the difference among these rifles by looking?

Probably picking one up this weekend so any help at all would be most useful! Thanks!

-Plink

jkcal436
April 14, 2009, 04:53 PM
On my Romy right of the barrel has made in Romania. Chicom Norinco will have chinese characters on the left side of receiver.

Duke of Doubt
April 15, 2009, 12:46 PM
JR47: "As the regular Romanian forces were equipped with the AK47/74 rifles, the use of SKS rifles would have been relegated mostly to irregulars. They would have been obtained in fairly small numbers, compared with the overall stocks, and their use would have precluded their return to storage, as I doubt that many of the participants would have seen the necessity of returning them to the depots. Rather, they are probably buried in preservatives in the forests."

No doubt, though some issued rifles did make their way here. My '59 Cugir has a lot of honest wear, probably from training exercises over the years.

Keep in mind that the army was far from the only armed force involved in the Christmas '89 festivities; the Sekuritate and regular police got some game time, too, as did trade unionists, journalists, ordinary citizens and foreign adventurers.

Those SKS rifles which saw field use in the Subcarpathians and along the Timisoara Road during the freakiest Christmas in living memory repose in their Wallachian/Transylvanian hides, for such time as the next mad Count or Commissar finally goes completely over the top.

Mike the Wolf, I agree -- for all his crimes, Ceaucescu and his colleagues did some fine work in guns and wines. Pity the wines were allowed to deteriorate after 1989 (1995 was the last really decent batch of Dealul Mare Cabernet); but the guns remain.

Ben Shepherd
April 15, 2009, 12:52 PM
Plinkeriffic-

See post #10 in this thread.

Shear_stress
April 15, 2009, 01:01 PM
The issue of chrome lined versus non-lined is important exactly because of the fact that most of these rifles saw use. The fact that you intend to use non-corrosive ammo from now on is irrelevant if the rifle you want to buy already popped decades worth of mercuric primers.

If you somehow have access to unissued rifles, than see which SKS you like better for whatever reason. Both Yugos and Romanians are very good quality. If the Yugo you want to buy is well used, like most of them, check the bore and--especially--the gas cutoff (more than a few single-shot Yugos out there).

Plinkeriffic
April 15, 2009, 01:38 PM
Wondering how to determine from the engravings what I'm looking at when I see one.

Thanks!

-Plink

Matrix187
April 15, 2009, 02:16 PM
I like my Norinco Type 56 20" alot more than yugos mainly because of the weight advantage, and no gas valve. I would probably want a romanian over a yugo though..

Ben Shepherd
April 15, 2009, 02:36 PM
Plinkeriffic-

Poke around over on www.sksboards.com , look for posts and links by YooperJ.

If you enjoyed reading about "SKS. Difference in Yugo and Romanian?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!