Stevens 200 in 5.45x39?


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545poison
March 28, 2009, 10:56 PM
Read with great interest about krochus' 7.62x39 experiences and Stevens200 build.

With all the inexpensive 5.45x39 ammo still around, has anyone succesfully built a bolt gun in 5.45?

The only 5.45x39 bolt action I've ever heard of was the infamous SSG82 East German border guard rifle.

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R.W.Dale
March 28, 2009, 11:10 PM
Your problem will be finding a barrel manufacturer who makes a .220" bore.

223/5.56x45 nato bullet diameter .224
5.45x39mm bullet dia .220" to .221"

Once you solve that stumbling block there shouldn't be anything stopping ya

545poison
March 28, 2009, 11:20 PM
I have tried to contact Lothar Walther about this. I'll post back what they tell me.

What other barrel manufacturers should I inquire with? Shilen? Douglas?

545poison
March 28, 2009, 11:22 PM
krochus, do you have any experience with the 5.45x39 round?

545poison
March 28, 2009, 11:29 PM
PS: Lothar Walther shows 5.45x39 as an available caliber: http://www.lothar-walther.com/460.php

R.W.Dale
March 29, 2009, 12:52 AM
krochus, do you have any experience with the 5.45x39 round?

Never fired one in my life, and only handled one round of ammunition

545poison
March 29, 2009, 10:16 AM
Okay looks like I'm in luck:

Hello,
Can you provide a barrel for the 5.45x39 round?
It is .220 bore, smaller than the .223 caliber

Thanks for your time.


"We do this caliber as a standard item. You can order it through our custom program. It is available in normal steel only."



I am not sure which contour would be optimal for 5.45x39, there are several choices:


Contour #2100: Light Weight Varmint

ØD1 = 0.700"
ØD2 = 0.900"
ØD3 = 1.200"
L1 = 3.0"
L2 = 7.0"
L3 = 26" or 28"

Contour #2120: Light Sporter Varmint

ØD1 = 0.870"
ØD2 = 0.900"
ØD3 = 1.200"
L1 = 4.0"
L2 = 7.0"
L3 = 26" or 28"

Contour #2140: Medium Sporter Varmint

ØD1 = 0.775"
ØD2 = 0.950"
ØD3 = 1.200"
L1 = 4.0"
L2 = 7.0"
L3 = 26" or 28"

Contour #2200: Medium Weight Varmint

ØD1 = 0.850"
ØD2 = 0.950"
ØD3 = 1.200"
L1 = 3.0"
L2 = 7.0"
L3 = 26" or 28"

Contour #2230: Heavy Sporter Varmint

ØD1 = 0.800"
ØD2 = 1.000"
ØD3 = 1.200"
L1 = 4.0"
L2 = 7.0"
L3 = 26" or 28"

Contour #2260: Remington Varmint

ØD1 = 0.835"
ØD2 = 1.000"
ØD3 = 1.200"
L1 = 4.0"
L2 = 7.0"
L3 = 26" or 28"

Contour #2300: Bench Rest Light Varmint

ØD1 = 0.902"
ØD2 = 1.200"
L1 = 4.0"
L2 = 26" or 28"

Contour #2340: Medium Target Varmint

ØD1 = 0.875"
ØD2 = 1.200"
L1 = 3.0"
L3 = 26" or 28"

Contour #2400: Standard Heavy Varmint

ØD1 = 0.900"
ØD2 = 1.025"
ØD3 = 1.200"
L1 = 3.0"
L2 = 7.0"
L3 = 26" or 28"

Contour #2500: Bench Rest Heavy Varmint

ØD1 = 0.940"
ØD2 = 1.240"
L1 = 6.0"
L2 = 26" or 28"

Affording it may be the hard part. Their barrels are very expensive. None less than $220 that I could see on the site, some up to $800 plus :what:

NCsmitty
March 29, 2009, 01:17 PM
This is the specs that are given on my membership pay site. I'm guessing this is for a 16"+ barrel.

5.45x39mm Russian M-74-----------------------------------SPECIFICATIONS

Bullet Diameter:
.224 in.
Max Overall Length:
2.264 in.
Rifling Twist:

Rifling Lands:

Case Capacity (est):
28.5 gr. water
Primer Size:
.175 in.

NOMINAL PERFORMANCE
Bullet Weight:
53 gr
Muzzle Velocity:
2900 fps
Muzzle Energy:
990 ft-lbs


NCsmitty

atblis
March 29, 2009, 02:03 PM
The 5.45x39 does not have the same rim as 7.62x39. Most people don't realize it isn't based on 7.62x39.

545poison
March 29, 2009, 02:11 PM
Right. It is not as tapered as the 7.62x39 either, hence AK-74 magazines are less curved than the AK-47 mags.

The 5.45x39 rim is slightly larger than the .223 rim, I hear it is the same size as a 9x19 pistol. Wondering if SSS offers a bolt head conversion in this size. The "just just make it work" part of me wants to just open up the .223 boltface with a dremel and call it done.

atblis
March 29, 2009, 02:15 PM
Sure why not. If you're doing this in a Savage rifle, the bolt heads are $12, so screw one up, oh well. Buy another.

I'd probably try and do it in a lathe though.

HankC
March 29, 2009, 03:17 PM
Will be nice if there is a group buy for Savage x39 barrels. Demand is out there but no one make them as standard off-shelf items. Mid Way will sell them like craze if they will offer A-B barrels at the price they are selling now.

545poison
March 29, 2009, 03:22 PM
Agreed!! I got a price and the Lothar-Walther barrel is $374 plus shipping... ouch!


Can someone start a new thread checking interest on a Savage x39 barrels group buy?

atblis
March 29, 2009, 03:40 PM
Might try ER shaw.
Pac Nor

Somebody was making barrels for the 5.45 ARs.

R.W.Dale
March 29, 2009, 04:50 PM
Savage bolt heads are typically pretty generous and will accommodate case heads larger than they're supposed to.

I'll wager the bolt face will require no modification

SaMx
March 29, 2009, 05:13 PM
I think it would be pretty cool, but the new barrel would have to be pretty cheap if the only point is to take advantage of cheap ammo. It's not like cheap ammo would give you great accuracy anyway, or like there's a lot of brass and bullets out there for reloading.

NCsmitty
March 29, 2009, 05:42 PM
The 5.45x39 case head measures .394 and the 223 measures .378 -.010.
The 7.62x39 is .447 -.010 with the target round, 5.6x39 at .443. The 5.6x39 uses the .221 dia. bullet. The 5.6x39 was the precursor to the 220 Russian which the PPC cartridges are based on.


NCsmitty

545poison
March 29, 2009, 05:51 PM
When I get the Stevens 200 in .223 I will CAREFULLY see if it will extract a 5.45 shell. It shouldn't chamber fully due to the 5.45's taper. It is .390" just above the extractor groove while .223 is only .374"

R.W.Dale
March 29, 2009, 06:31 PM
When I get the Stevens 200 in .223 I will CAREFULLY see if it will extract a 5.45 shell. It shouldn't chamber fully due to the 5.45's taper. It is .390" just above the extractor groove while .223 is only .374"

extraction won't be the problem.

You need to remove the bolt from the rifle and see if a 5.45 case will fit inside the case head recess stevens bolt face.

Being a push feed you won't learn anything by trying ton cram the wrong ammo in the wrong chamber. At the very lest have sense to use a dummy round or a fired case before you shoot sumpin and rupture a case at the same time playing with live ammo

R.W.Dale
March 29, 2009, 06:40 PM
I take my earlier statement back the .223 bolt face I have handy is about .009" shy of being able to accommodate a 5.54 case head

So just like with my 7.62x39 the bolt head will require machining

545poison
March 29, 2009, 07:34 PM
Definitely will use a spent casing for any test chambering.

Regarding the .223 & 5.45 bolt faces sizes: the dremel, —er mill— comes out! :D

R.W.Dale
March 29, 2009, 07:59 PM
Definitely will use a spent casing for any test chambering.

Regarding the .223 & 5.45 bolt faces sizes: the dremel, —er mill— comes out! :D

a nice square bolt face is essential to accuracy, a dremil simply isn't gonna get you there. This is the kinda thing you need to pay a machinist or gunsmith for.

545poison
March 29, 2009, 08:00 PM
Noted! Thank you krochus

545poison
March 30, 2009, 08:30 AM
Heard back from E.R. Shaw regarding 5.45x39 barrels:

"Unfortunately we can not help you with this request. We do not drill, ream, or rifle for that bore size and we also do not offer that chambering"

545poison
March 30, 2009, 01:56 PM
Pac-Nor contacted me today and they do make blanks in 5.45 Russian. However they don't have that chamber reamer so they can't provide a ready-to-go Savage barrel.

motocop
May 28, 2009, 09:21 AM
I am new to this board but have been researching this same idea. I found a Savage 340 in .222. Cost is $200. The bolt head and magazine will work fine. Manson Reamers carries the reamers as a stock item. They are currently out of stock for 2 weeks. The reamer is about $125. Im thinking about renting one. There is a special wrench for barrel removal that is around $30. I spoke with an old gunsmith about this conversion and his opinion is this action isnt made for cartridges in the 50,000 plus pressure range. I know the .556 is close. Glad I found this site. Art

VirgilCaine
May 28, 2009, 09:49 AM
5.45x39 USA
5.45x39.5 Russian

So, wait, there's a 5.45 US round and a 5.45 Russian?
I've never heard of this before, what are they talking about here?
I wasn't aware of any domestic 5.45x39mm production? :uhoh:

motocop
May 28, 2009, 10:12 AM
Sorry for the confusion. Im talking about the 5.45x39 converison. I bought some of this ammo and have been kicking around making up a bolt gun to shoot it.

motocop
May 28, 2009, 10:13 AM
This is the Russian imported ammo. Right now its about .14 a round which is real cheap. I jumped in on an old post from March.

maskedman504
May 28, 2009, 10:34 AM
Smith & Wesson has an AR (MP-15) chambered in 5.45x39. I don't know where they get the barrels.

VirgilCaine
May 28, 2009, 10:35 AM
No, I understand all that, I just wanted to know about the two (apparently) different calibers they Lothar Walter listed.

maskedman504
May 28, 2009, 10:50 AM
The 39 is meant for the case length, right?

Well, the 5.45x39 Russian round has a case lngth listed as:

Bullet diameter 5.60 mm (0.220 in)
Neck diameter 6.29 mm (0.248 in)
Shoulder diameter 9.25 mm (0.364 in)
Base diameter 10.0 mm (0.394 in)
Rim diameter 10.0 mm (0.394 in)
Rim thickness 1.50 mm (0.059 in)
Case length 39.82 mm (1.568 in)
Overall length 57.00 mm (2.244 in)
Rifling twist 255 mm (1 in 10 in)
Primer type Berdan, small rifle
Maximum pressure 380.0 MPa (55,114 psi)

I have never heard of 5.45x39 USA. Maybe they are just referring to USA manufactured 5.45x39 rounds, which may, or may not, have a slightly different specification?

motocop
May 31, 2009, 08:45 PM
Manson reamers will have them in 5.45x39 in a week or so. Price is $125

alemonkey
May 31, 2009, 09:54 PM
Sounds like a very interesting project, but are brass and bullets available? I don't think I'd drop that kind of money on a project unless I could handload for it to squeeze as much accuracy as possible out of the rifle.

If you enjoyed reading about "Stevens 200 in 5.45x39?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!