Lever Action Question!


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Paladin_Hammer
March 29, 2009, 02:22 AM
I was watching Shooting USA on the outdoor channel two or so days ago when they had a segment on Western 3-Gun Shooting. For those who don't know, its kind of like Cowboy action shooting, save that now you use a wheel-gun, lever-action rifle, and "western" era style shotgun.

The lever-actions used by those shooters had a modification done to them. They did SOMETHING to shorten the cycling of the action. An example would be a Marlin which, from factory, I know you have to move the lever almost 90 degrees from the stock and receiver to fully cycle the rifle. The rifles used by the three-gun shooters however were barely moving beyond 20 or 30 degrees from the stock and receiver, allowing the shooters to keep their hands on the rifle stock while cycling the action!

I know my Marlin 30AW cannot do that. I also know that something is wrong with it because I have to crank that sucker almost 110 degrees to cycle the action! What modification do these guys to to lessen the cycle time?

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Gunfighter123
March 29, 2009, 03:43 AM
They call them "short stroke " --- I have a Marlin .357 and a Uberti 1873 .357 that have been short-stroked.
Here is a link;
http://www.pioneergunworks.com/page4.html
And here is a link to the Gunsmith who did my Marlin;
http://www.shadycreekshootists.com/shortstroke.htm

mnrivrat
March 29, 2009, 04:00 AM
Keep in mind also that the action shooters are using pistol cartridge lever guns ,and not the Marlin 336 of 30A designed for longer rifle cartridges.

SaxonPig
March 29, 2009, 10:37 AM
Gee, looking at the photo it looks like maybe an inch reduction in lever travel? Does 1" really make that much difference? You would have to be far more serious than I about fast shooting to spend $315 (plus shipping both ways) to achieve a 1" shorter stroke.

Griff56
March 29, 2009, 11:54 AM
You apparently do not shoot CAS!

The number of short stroked rifles is staggering. I do not have one, but then I am an old duffer that has seen most of it and don't really care too much. Most of the short stroked rifles that I have seen are either the replica 1873 Winchester or 1866 Yellowboy models. I shoot an 1894 Marlin in .44 mag/Sp.

Joe Alves at Pioneer is a first rate gun smith. He slicked
up a SXS shotgun for me that is like butter.

Harve Curry
March 29, 2009, 12:13 PM
I have a new 73 Winchester copy and I had intended to get it short stroked. But like Griff above I don't care that much and can use the money on other projects. You have to be a real good manipulator in order to avoid firing out of battery when you are shooting that fast. I might be wrong (seldom:rolleyes: ) but I think a short stroked action is more prone to being able to be fired out of battery, then a stock 66/73 Win toggle type action.

Rodigon
March 29, 2009, 05:01 PM
you also have to keep in mind that there are different generations of short strokes out there. also that when you short stroke one it usually makes it a little harder to work the lever,(not as smooth as just having an action job).
getting a 1st generation with action work is smooth, but as you increase in the generations they are a little bit clunkyier, (that is my new word). and yes the lever throw does get shorter with each generation.. that is my 2 cents worth..and I do shoot SASS, cowboy action, and I know some of the other guys feel the same..one of the other reasons for short stroke is to shorten the lever throw is cause of small hands and for speed because of the small hands....just fyi and my opinion...

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 29, 2009, 05:32 PM
CAS's raison d'etre is FUN.

Gamesmanship such as this contributes to ruining the fun.

Silliness.

Gunfighter123
March 29, 2009, 08:08 PM
Hi Dr. Tad ,

I agree with your statement.

BUT -- LOL -- at one time , MANY years ago , I was rated as one of the top 100 in IPSC and had one of the first MasterCards.

As I got into my 40s , I found I really couldn't compete with 20 year olds in Track & Field {IPSC etc. }

Bummed me out to the max. !!! And I quit shooting for almost 5 years.

Got bored with fishing etc. and got the shooting bug again --- looked at what I may want to try and remembered SASS { cowboy action } ---- read that a class offered was Gunfighter -- draw both single action revolvers on the buzzer and blast away. In over 15/20 years of IPSC/IDPA/3 Gun/ bowling pin / bullseye /trap etc. etc. , I realized I NEVER got to compete with a pistol in each hand.

First SASS match , I shot Traditional , two hand grip --- the 2nd match I shot Gunfighter and have never looked back --- most fun you can have with your clothes on !!!!

BUT --- LOL -- I was around when the first "short-strokes" came out. I shot my Marlin .357 and placed well against them --- THEN the 2nd generation SSs came out and my closest "rivel " started to beat me with his SS ---- so I had a 1873 .357 built with the 3rd gen SS and I started to win again !!!

I was TOTALLY AGAINST short-strokes and voted so BUT they were declared legal for the game.

In any GAME where time is a factor , you can win or lose by 1/100 of a second.

It is "raceing " and you can't run a 6 cyld. against a big block and win most times.

So , what I am saying is -- DEPENDS just how competitive you want to be.

I have about $1300 in my SASS rifle , for a lower middle class person like me -- THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY.

Was it worth it ??? To Win or place high against other shooters , for me , is priceless.

I don't mind loseing to a better shooter --- but I HATE loseing because someone had better guns !!!

Do I have FUN ?? YOU BET !!! Do I have MORE FUN if I win or place higher --- YOU BET !!!

SASS/CAS is what YOU make of it -- some people have spent more on one outfit of clothes then what I have in my rifle.

BTW --- there are also short-stroked revolvers but I have no interest in them -- FOR NOW -- LOL


I WOULD EDIT FOR SPELLING BUT IT"S A LOSEING BATTLE !!!!

cane
March 29, 2009, 08:44 PM
You can't fire a '73 out of battery unless you remove the lever lock. This was added to the '73 just to prevent this problem. The '66 on the other hand doesn't have one.

Gunfighter123
March 29, 2009, 09:09 PM
Cane is 100% correct --- the 73 is tottaly safe with the lever lock intact ----- the 1866 type of rifles can be fired out of battery.

Thanks Cane for adding to the post.

Harve Curry
March 30, 2009, 02:02 AM
That's right thanks for corecting me. I've seen some 1873's that were adjusted so that it hardly mattered.
I have a 1860 Henry 44-40 that I aquirred because the headspace is equal to about 2 rim thicknesses. Appears the frame must of stretched either from a overload or fired out of battery.

RugerOldArmy
March 30, 2009, 02:08 AM
The design has a bit to do with it. '94s are designed for longer cartridges, and '92s don't cycle as smoothly as '73s and '66s, but have a stronger action. ('73s and '66s are toggle-link designs. '92s and '94s are stronger actions.)


Personally, I think everybody should have a 1873 Winchester (or clone.)


EDIT: Lol, I just saw the short stroke kits, that's more than just the initial design.

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