Are there any .5 MOA semi-auto rifles currently available?


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theoak
March 29, 2009, 12:52 PM
I was looking for a .5 MOA semi-auto rifle that is currently available (delivery within 3-4 months).

I was thinking about the Les Baer 6.5mm Grendel Super Varmint, however I'm concerned that the Grendel may not be around in 5+ years.

Any ideas?

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usmc1371
March 29, 2009, 02:08 PM
I have a les baer in .204 and it is .5 moa no problem in fact it shoots quite a bit less than .5 if I do my part. If you are going with the grendel you may want to stock up on brass and plan on reloading if the thing dies out in a few years. I am not sure if any other company garuntees .5 moa with their AR's. I have had my LBC super varmint since 11/06 and so far I am very happy with it.

atblis
March 29, 2009, 02:09 PM
I wouldn't worry about the Grendel not being around. I think it'll stick. What you do is get yourself a few hundred pieces of brass and reload. Never have to worry about it dieing.

SammyIamToday
March 29, 2009, 02:11 PM
My DPMS 308 SASS.

Float Pilot
March 29, 2009, 02:13 PM
I manage 0.50 inch or slightly less groups with a 6.8mm SPC Stag Model 5. That is with certain handloads.

My neighbor down the road has a heavy barreled Stag AR in 5.56mm that shoots very tight groups with 60 to 69 grain bullets.

My old M1A Super Match will shoot sub half inch groups with most handloads.

Plus I have seen more than a few AR-10 type clones, that will shoot half inch groups at 100 yards or even better with the right ammo and shooter.

The Wiry Irishman
March 29, 2009, 02:13 PM
Take a look at JP Rifles (http://www.jprifles.com/).

http://www.jprifles.com/gallery/d/84-2/DSC01409.jpg

Lloyd Smale
March 29, 2009, 02:23 PM
like was said a properly built ar15 or ar10 will shoot with most any bolt gun anymore and its to the point where if i was looking for a sub moa gun and bought 10 ars and 10 bolt guns from differnt manufactures id about be the ars would outshoot the bolts. especially when you consider the size of the barrel. compare standard weight ars with standard weight bolt guns and Id bet the ars would win every time.

taliv
March 29, 2009, 02:24 PM
les baer and dpms both have a reputation for accuracy. it's probably not fair to expect every sample that leaves their factories to meet the 1/2moa target, but a fair number of them certainly do.


to be sure, it would suck to wait 5 months for a rifle to be delivered and find out you got one that didn't meet your expectations. but short of ordering 10 and selling the other 9, I'm not sure what your options are

Titan6
March 29, 2009, 02:28 PM
My DPMS 308 SASS.

Since it is available how much do you want for it?

usmc1371
March 29, 2009, 02:31 PM
My les baer came with two "test targets" both with two very small groups along the lines of .394 or some thing like that. I know I laughed at them until I had the rifle at the range with a good bench. Then I just smiled and felt all warm and fuzzy inside.

Float Pilot
March 29, 2009, 02:37 PM
This is from a 6.8mm SPC, 16 inch barreled Stag using a fixed 6 power Leupold scope. From sandbags at 100 yards and the squares are one inch.
The handload data is listed on the photo. This is AFTER I modified the feed ramp to an M4 style.

WardenWolf
March 29, 2009, 02:39 PM
Some PSL's can do it. Not all, but some.

theoak
March 29, 2009, 04:02 PM
Here's a list of what I have considered so far:


-DPMS LR-308: Wait time of 1 year+, $1,900 with options. Unsure of accuracy.

-Armalite AR-10T: Shipping end of 2009, $1,892, 1 MOA.

-Patriot Ordnance Factory P-308: 25 week wait, $2,500, 1 MOA.

-Les Baer 6.5mm Grendel Super Varmint: 12 week wait, $2,500, .5 MOA.

-DSA Inc. SA-58 w/ 21" bull barrel: $1,850, unsure of accuracy or wait time.

-LWRC SABR - Shipping July 2009, $3,000, unsure of accuracy.

-Fulton Armory Titan: $2,800 w/ options, unsure of accuracy or wait time.


I already have a Colt .223 with a 16" POF upper, and a .308 PTR-91. I wanted to purchase the most accurate rifle at a reasonable price (some rifles cost $1,000 more without any gain in accuracy). I was also concerned about magazine and ammunition availability.

I was leaning towards the Les Baer 6.5mm Grendel because of the .5 MOA guarantee and only a 12 week wait. C-Products has 25 round Grendel magazines available (although Midway doesn't seem to have any 6.5 Grendel ammo in stock). The 6.5mm Grendel round would offer increased range and accuracy over a .223 with the same size rifle, and only 5 less rounds per magazine.

Are there any .308's with a .5 MOA guarantee, under $3,000, with a wait time less than 4 months, and with readily available magazines? I would buy a .308 over the 6.5 if I could find one with those characteristics.

Kind of Blued
March 29, 2009, 04:07 PM
Do you have a decent AR? Putting a high-quality barrel on it would get you a long way.

I also noticed that you didn't say how far you're going to be shooting it. At certain distances, the cartridge's capabilities will become more important than the quality of the gun.

JWarren
March 29, 2009, 04:38 PM
My LR-308 will do sub-.5 MOA.

It's off in TX getting some work to it as we speak. Hopefully, it still will when it gets back.


-- John

SimpleIsGood229
March 29, 2009, 04:39 PM
The Bushmaster Varminter has an excellent reputation for accuracy.

theoak
March 29, 2009, 04:51 PM
For the .223 I have a Colt Sporter lower with a 16" Patriot Ordnance Factory gas-piston upper and an Eotech scope. I also have a .308 PTR-91 with iron sights...buying 25 magazines for $50 was awesome. :)

I wanted something larger than a .223, and more accurate than the PTR-91for 250+ yards.

I was hoping to get another rifle before the Mexican drug cartels buy all of them up. :(

SaxonPig
March 29, 2009, 05:42 PM
Well, I was going to say that .5" with a semi-auto rifle is asking a lot but it seems that everyone and his brother has one that can do it. What do I know?

If you guys are shooting .5" groups with autos, what are the bolt guns (you know, the ones that are SUPPOSED to be accurate) shooting?

Pulse
March 29, 2009, 06:00 PM
If you guys are shooting .5" groups with autos, what are the bolt guns (you know, the ones that are SUPPOSED to be accurate) shooting?

Bolt guns shoot one hole groups at 4000+ meters, with Wolf factory ammo.
if yours does not, might want to place a complain with the factory that built that worthless rifle. :p

JWarren
March 29, 2009, 06:01 PM
Saxon,

If you notice, the semi's that are shooting those groups are on the AR platform.

A stock AR is accurate, but there are MANY changes that can be made to the AR platform to create a truly precision semi-auto.

Routinely, custom ARs are holding their own against bolt-actions. Its no wonder that the military has adopted the KNS SR-25 as a new military sniper rifle.

Bolt actions are usually accurate out-of-the-box. Semi-autos are not usually as accurate as bolt-actions out-of-the-box.

However, when you are willing to toss a decent chunk of money at the issue and then practice, you can compete against a bolt-action with an AR.

I've got around $2K in my LR-308 and another $1.2K in my optics.

It's done plenty of sub-.5" groups-- one 5-shot group at 3/8".

But you know what? I had a Remington 700 ADL that wasn't much worse using a 30 year old Redfield tracker fixed 4X at a fraction of the cost.

If you compare apples to apples out-of-the-box, bolt actions will more than likely always be more accurate. But it is out-dated and old-world thinking to believe that today's custom AR platform semi-autos can't compete with a turn-bolt-- expecially a stock one.


-- John

Jim Watson
March 29, 2009, 06:19 PM
I think my Colt-Krieger AR is the most accurate rifle I own. Certainly equal to anything else in the house.

At the cutting edge, the bolt actions are still more accurate (and they don't throw your brass in the weeds) but if you look at the Tubb 2000 and the Eliseo and MAK "tubeguns" you will see that the bolt gunners have learned from the ARs.

theoak
March 29, 2009, 06:28 PM
I was also considering the LaRue Tactical Stealth OSR in 7.62...

R.W.Dale
March 29, 2009, 06:56 PM
Some PSL's can do it. Not all, but some.

LOLOLOLOLOL!

I think this thread needs a heavy dosage of reality check

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5192880#post5192880

particularly rule number ONE and TWO

elmerfudd
March 30, 2009, 04:28 AM
If my PSL is printing 2 MOA groups I figure it's shooting pretty good.

Considering it combines a Kalashnikov action, Romanian build quality and east bloc surplus ammo, expecting more out of it wouldn't exactly be rational.

Eric F
March 30, 2009, 09:30 AM
Magnum research 17/22m 17hmr magnumlite is said to be .5 moa

Eb1
March 30, 2009, 11:13 AM
My Colt HBAR upper 1:9 with a CMMG lower, A2 sights is a .5 MOA gun. All for the low, low cost of $500.

jbech123
March 30, 2009, 11:28 AM
like was said a properly built ar15 or ar10 will shoot with most any bolt gun anymore
At about double the price though...

jbech123
March 30, 2009, 11:32 AM
Well, I was going to say that .5" with a semi-auto rifle is asking a lot but it seems that everyone and his brother has one that can do it. What do I know?
Don't despair, it is asking a helluva lot to get a semi auto to consistently shoot 1/2 moa groups. Not the odd "accident" here and there, but consistently. It can be done, and LBC makes a damn fine rifle, but don't let people fool you into thinking everyone is doing it and it is the new standard. This is the internet, people stretch the truth more often than not.

lipadj46
March 30, 2009, 12:53 PM
The FNAR with the heavy barrel is probably the one rifle that is fairly available these days and is said to be sub MOA. They go for around $1400 give or take $100. The M1A can definitely do it but you will either need to buy an NM model or get a Loaded model and do the accuracy upgrades to it (unitize the gas system and bed the action). An AR with a match weight barrel and a match trigger should be able to do it also. Of course any will require the proper weight match ammo or handloads.

Pulse
March 30, 2009, 01:33 PM
This is the internet, people stretch the truth more often than not.

stretch?
if one is able to hold 0.5MOA with any kind of rifle, he should give the olympic committee i call, they might have a job for him in the national shooting team.
heck, if you are able to consistantly hold 1MOA, still give them a call.
0.5MOA goes quiet a bit beyond 'stretching'.

lipadj46
March 30, 2009, 01:42 PM
Well tuning a semi auto and handloads to shoot sub MOA is one thing. To actually shoot sub MOA is an entirely different thing all together. And yes there is a lot of BSing about shooting at range and I am assuming no one is really calling anyone out because either they do it also or don't want to be embarrassed if they are really the only bad shooters out there.

Oh and also there is a big difference in shooting well at 25 yards then at 300 yards no matter what they tell you at appleseed.

elmerfudd
March 30, 2009, 01:43 PM
Benchrest shooters regularly shoot groups much smaller than .5 MOA, but last I checked the Olympics weren't interested in benchrest shooting.

jbech123
March 30, 2009, 01:47 PM
Well tuning a semi auto and handloads to shoot sub MOA is one thing. To actually shoot sub MOA is an entirely different thing all together.
True, and to make matters worse, the OP was talking .5 moa, not moa.

usmc1371
March 30, 2009, 02:27 PM
A good point is being brought up here. Yes my les baer will shoot under .5moa. NO not everyone who shoots it can do it. I can under great conditions with a very good bench. In the real world shooting prone with a bi-pod if I shoot 1.5 moa its a good day. I once shot a 2.5" 5 shot group at 400 yds prone off the bi-pod but the same day I shot a bunch of 5 to 6'' groups so I could say "hell yes I can shoot .5 moa at 400 yds" ONCE out of maybe 5 or 6 groups if the wind isn't blowing. I would say most rifles are capable of way more accuracy than the guy behind them.

JWarren
March 30, 2009, 05:50 PM
Guys,

You need to remember... 1 or even 1/5 MOA at 100 yards is a LOT different than at longer ranges.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is. I've had PLENTY of deer rifles that held 1 MOA or less over the last 30 years. I never considered that all that exciting.

Now... lets say this... am I talking about 5 or 10 shot groups with a sporter barrel hunting rifle? No-- because you NEVER FIRE a sporter barrel hunting rifle 5 or 10 shots on a hunt.

I expect different things from competition-grade rifles than I do hunting rifles. However, you CANNOT discount a rifle that you can EXPECT to fire a sub-MOA group at 100 yards any time you set up and do your part-- regardless of shooting 3 shots, 5 shots, or 10 shots.

-- John

WardenWolf
March 30, 2009, 06:08 PM
LOLOLOLOLOL!

I think this thread needs a heavy dosage of reality check

(1) 3-shot groups are used for a reason. Unless you let your bore cool down significantly, anything more than a 3-shot group with a large rifle is going to start opening up, regardless of rifle. With semi-automatics, there's a tendency to fire multiple shots back to back. If you want your rifle to do its part, you need to do your part.

(2) I said some can do it, not all. Occasionally you'll get a bone stock PSL that'll shoot incredibly well. And I've also seen some people perform modifications to their rifles (partial free float modifications by reaming out some of the wood and more) to get them to shoot even better. The newer ones seem to be better, as the Cugir plant further modernizes with new equipment.

Fact is, some platforms can do it. Most can't. But there's such a thing as accurate enough for most people. Unless you're doing competition shooting, 1 MOA is enough for most people. Find a gun you like within your price range, and go for it.

theoak
March 30, 2009, 06:43 PM
I didn't mean for the focus of the thread to be .5 MOA. Les Baer advertises their 6.5mm Grendel Super Varmint as being capable of .5 MOA, so I was looking for other options with similar accuracy.

My question should be: What is the best semi-auto rifle (larger than a .223) in terms of cost/accuracy, that is not on back order for 6+ months, and has readily available magazines and ammo. The intended use is shooting 250+ yards with a scope.

I really like the Les Baer 6.5mm Grendel Super Varmint, however I'm concerned about ammo availability (I don't intend to reload).

DPMS and Armalite are backordered for 1+ years. The LWRS and POF gas-piston 308 ARs are expensive, and I heard they aren't as accurate as direct impingement 308 ARs.

I also thought about the LaRue OSR and the Fulton Armory Titan, however I know nothing about their backorder time or accuracy.


What would you buy?

JWarren
March 30, 2009, 06:50 PM
I suspect that you'd get a Larue before you got a special-ordered LR-308, and you will pay a similar price on Gunbroker for the DPMS or the Armalite.

If I did it again, I'd just get the Larue OSR. You can't build that rifle cheaper than Larue sells it.


-- John

MythBuster
March 30, 2009, 06:55 PM
I don't see that it matters if you have to have a concrete bench and sandbags to do it.

R.W.Dale
March 30, 2009, 07:20 PM
(1) 3-shot groups are used for a reason. Unless you let your bore cool down significantly, anything more than a 3-shot group with a large rifle is going to start opening up, regardless of rifle. With semi-automatics, there's a tendency to fire multiple shots back to back. If you want your rifle to do its part, you need to do your part.


Yeah because it's an easy crutch to use when you're basically trying to LUCK into one group to take a photo of and proudly proclaim that your rifle shoots X MOA "all day long"

If your patient enough 3 5 or 20 rd groups, bolt semi, or lever won't cause this "opening up"


Truth in accuracy reporting

ONE

Don't make any kind of claim of accuracy on a 3 shot group, You're only 3/5th of the way to a useful indication of potential accuracy with a 3 shot group. Just about any rifle will luck itself into great looking 3 shot groups from time to time. Even the junkiest rifle stands chance of "missing" in the same direction thrice however this likelihood is greatly reduced with a five shot group. which leads me to no2

TWO

Accuracy of your firearm cannot be claimed from ONE lucky group. You must take the good groups and average em in with the bad. In my opinion four 5 shot strings is the MINIMUM to even begin to make any serious claims.

THREE

Understand that every rifle is it's own individual, just because the rem700 you bought shoots 3/4" groups is no garentee that the rifle that was sitting behind it on the rack will do the same.

FOUR

Don't ever use the cliché "All day long" when making an accuracy claim, as soon as most read those words most assume guideline No2 applies

FIVE

I don't care if you use millimeters or inches, decimals or fractions for the love of god drop the measurements based on US currency. International members may not know how large a dime is and even if so depending on caliber a rifle that would shoot into a dime"all day long" would be benchrest grade. When you apply this claim to a 10/22 or an marlin336 people instantly don't believe you

SIX

Learn how to measure groups properly, groups size is determined by the extreme spread minus the bullet diameter. If you don't want to do the math and your groups aren't one ragged hole simply measure distance to the edge of the farthest holes on the same side

JWarren
March 30, 2009, 07:36 PM
I agree with krochus that I'd never "post" a 3-shot group in order to demonstrate the capabilities of either a rifle or myself.

However, I maintain that if you can take your rifle and shoot a MOA or better 3-shot group consistently when it is called upon to do so, that in itself cannot be discounted.


-- John

JWF III
March 30, 2009, 07:45 PM
Quote:
My DPMS 308 SASS.

Since it is available how much do you want for it?


Now that right there is funny. Titan I'll pm you with where to send the check to replace the keyboard.:D

Wyman

loadedround
March 30, 2009, 10:17 PM
My Springfield NM M1A will put 5 rounds into 1/2" at 100yds with 168 gr Sierra Match bullets and H4895 from the bench when I do my part. :)

theoak
March 31, 2009, 06:55 PM
Although I didn't get a lot of advice, I decided on the LaRue Tactical 7.62mm OSR.

I almost bought the Les Baer 6.5mm SV but decided on the OSR because of ammo availability and price.

Maverick223
March 31, 2009, 07:47 PM
I would have to say stay away from the ARs, not that they aren't accurate. Just overpriced and hard to get in my opinion. If you want the best get a GA Precision, but expect to pay for it and wait forever to get it. I would upgrade the PTR-91 that you already own. There are guys on HK forum that have put together a group buy for a PSG-1 style target barrel that should easily get you 0.5 MOA with other upgrades (stock, trigger group, etc.). Good luck, Mav.

theoak
March 31, 2009, 09:16 PM
I tried GA Precision, but they aren't accepting any new orders because of the "Obama Mania."

I didn't know there was a barrel upgrade for the PTR-91. It sounds like something to consider.

I like the ARs because I am familiar with them. I agree they are over priced. I don't want to pay 2,500+ for a rifle if something close in accuracy can be had for $1,200.

I was tempted to try the 6.5 Grendel, but the ammo availability and price made me hesitate...

Maverick223
March 31, 2009, 09:57 PM
I will say that I have toyed with the idea of a 6.5 Grendel. If I owned a AR it would be a must-have. But I don't, so it isn't on my short list. I did recommend it to a friend of mine a few days ago, the following is what I spec'd out for him:
-Alexander Arms 6.5 with 24" bbl
-Zeiss Conquest 4-14x44 AO (highly recommend for a moderate budget)
-Weaver Tactical Rings
-Harris 6-9" Swivel Bipod
-1.25" Outdoor Connection Super-Sling

He wanted a AR that would reach out about 600yds with a decent degree of repeatability. He also wanted something that would hit hard enough (at closer ranges) to harvest deer. Since you already have an AR pattern rifle I would suggest that you convert it to 6.5 using a different upper rather than buying a complete system (assuming you are dead set on a AR, not to say that's bad). Just remember to do the other upgrades like a adjustable stock and Jewell trigger pack to the rifle, otherwise practical accuracy might not improve by much. However, if it were me go with the PTR-91...it will be more comfortable to shoot (for me anyway), deliver .308 that can be had anywhere, and look pretty darn cool at the same time. :D

Maverick223
March 31, 2009, 10:32 PM
More info on accurized HK91/PTR91s...
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101115&highlight=psg1+barrel
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97042&highlight=psg1+barrel
Or just go here for a bbl (see below), whilst not cheap, I have heard they are quite accurate if installed properly.
http://www.rimcountrymfg.com/home.htm

theoak
April 1, 2009, 10:51 PM
That 25" PSG-1 barrel from Rim Country looks pretty nice, but the $700 price hurts. I didn't think a PSG-1 could be made as accurate as a National Match M1A.

I was going to keep the PTR-1 as a "battle rifle" for plinking with Wolf ammo (since it eats brass), and buy a .308 AR for accuracy. I may reconsider and try customizing the PTR-91 to make it more accurate.

I'm also thinking about buying a 6.5mm Grendel upper since I already have 5 Grendel Mags and a pre-ban Colt lower.

Maverick223
April 2, 2009, 12:07 AM
I didn't think a PSG-1 could be made as accurate as a National Match M1A
:what: Sorry, but I had to laugh at that. A PSG-1 is much more accurate out of the box (and at about $15-18k it better be), however the PTR-91 (even with the upgraded bbl) will never be a PSG-1, or shoot as good as one, but you can get close for alot less. The PSG-1 has an accuracy guarantee of sub 1MOA and is usually about 0.5MOA. A Nat. Match M1A is about 1MOA summer (summer less, summer not). I am assuming that is what you were referring to. ;)

longdayjake
April 2, 2009, 01:41 AM
however I'm concerned that the Grendel may not be around in 5+ years.

Don't worry about this. You can make 6.5 grendel brass from 7.62x39 brass which I'm pretty sure will be around forever. I bought the double star grendel and it seems to be of great quality. Havent shot it yet but it looks like its pretty solid. Im waiting for my wife to forget about it before I start buying ammo for it.

ugaarguy
April 2, 2009, 03:16 AM
I didn't mean for the focus of the thread to be .5 MOA. Les Baer advertises their 6.5mm Grendel Super Varmint as being capable of .5 MOA, so I was looking for other options with similar accuracy.

My question should be: What is the best semi-auto rifle (larger than a .223) in terms of cost/accuracy, that is not on back order for 6+ months, and has readily available magazines and ammo. The intended use is shooting 250+ yards with a scope.

I really like the Les Baer 6.5mm Grendel Super Varmint, however I'm concerned about ammo availability (I don't intend to reload).
The FN AR (Browning BAR hunting rifle based) is probably your best option. Magazines are the only shortfall. Otherwise you get FN's guarantee that it'll shoot MOA or better with factory match ammo, .308 probably has the most factory match ammo available of any caliber, and the rifle isn't as in demand as an AR-15 / AR-10.

Maverick223
April 2, 2009, 08:38 AM
The BAR is a nice rifle, however its weight might hold you back. It is a bit heavier than a M1, which is a bit heavier than a M14 IIRC. If you can handle the extra weight then it should serve you well. It certainly has a decent service record.

jbech123
April 2, 2009, 01:44 PM
I agree with krochus that I'd never "post" a 3-shot group in order to demonstrate the capabilities of either a rifle or myself.
Well competition target shooting is one thing. For the type of long range hunting I do, there is really only one target that ends up meaning much in the end. I have a cold barrel target, I post it everytime I go to the range, and my first shot goes into that, and it is the ammo I hunt with. Sometime I post it at 100 yards, sometimes 200, sometimes 300. There are now 27 holes in it, and the group size is 3.2 inches.

theoak
April 2, 2009, 07:20 PM
I didn't think a PSG-1 could be made as accurate as a National Match M1A

Sorry, but I had to laugh at that. A PSG-1 is much more accurate out of the box (and at about $15-18k it better be), however the PTR-91 (even with the upgraded bbl) will never be a PSG-1, or shoot as good as one, but you can get close for alot less. The PSG-1 has an accuracy guarantee of sub 1MOA and is usually about 0.5MOA. A Nat. Match M1A is about 1MOA summer (summer less, summer not). I am assuming that is what you were referring to.

I meant the PTR-91. I know the PSG-1 is one of the most accurate semi-autos produced. I have seen a few PTR-91s dressed up as PSG-1s, however I doubt there even close to the PSG-1 in accuracy. I purchased the PTR-91 just to add it to my collection while it's still around. I expect "battle rifle" accuracy from the PTR-91, not sub-MOA. I don't want to spend money to upgrade the PTR-91 if it isn't going to be much more accurate.

Maverick223
April 2, 2009, 07:50 PM
I meant the PTR-91.
I figured that much, but it was still funny :D
however I doubt there even close to the PSG-1 in accuracy
I do not know from experience, as I have never shot or even seen one shot, however some guys claim to be getting great accuracy out of a PTR-91 (better than PSG-1 in some cases), however I have doubts in some of those claims myself. :scrutiny:
I don't want to spend money to upgrade the PTR-91 if it isn't going to be much more accurate.
Couldn't agree more, the PSG-1 Clone may look more accurate, but if it cannot perform...who cares? Hope you like your new gun, I think the LaRue will serve you well. Let us know how you like it and how well it performs, Mav.

theoak
April 3, 2009, 01:44 PM
The only problem with the LaRue OSR is that it uses SR-25 magazines. Does anyone know of other .308 magazines that are compatible with the SR-25?

I was still considering the 6.5 Grendel... One of the benefits of the Grendel is the compatibility with .223 AR lowers. Since I already have an AR I was thinking about either the Les Baer Super Varmint upper or the Alexander Arms 18" gas-piston upper.

Maverick223
April 3, 2009, 02:31 PM
I thought you had already decided on and ordered the OSR...
Although I didn't get a lot of advice, I decided on the LaRue Tactical 7.62mm OSR.
If not, I will refer you to post No. 47, I put a decent amount of time putting together the system detailed there and I think it may serve you well. the "Overwatch" version uses match grade components at a fraction of the price of comparably equiped 6.5 Grendel Rifles. If you want to go that route it is what I would suggest, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if you didn't (I am not invested in any of the systems). I think the 6.5Grendel will be around for a while.:D

theoak
April 3, 2009, 10:07 PM
In addition to the OSR, I was thinking about the Alexander Arms 6.5mm Grendel "Hunter" 18" upper with an A2 flash suppressor for about $800.

I liked the Alexander Arms 6.5mm Grendel gas-piston 18" upper, however it's close to $1,700 for the upper alone.

With the price of ammo I doubt I'll be shooting the Grendel upper enough to justify the extra cost of a gas-piston system (the cleanliness won't matter if I'm only shooting 20 rounds a month). The 18" Hunter should be just as accurate as the 18" gas-piston.

I thought an 18" Grendel upper would be a good choice, as I have a 16" .223 upper and I'm ordering the 7.62 OSR with a 20" barrel.

Maverick223
April 4, 2009, 04:56 PM
The 18" Hunter should be just as accurate as the 18" gas-piston.
No, it will be a bit more accurate than the piston operated upper...although if you want it to be more reliable and easier to clean the gas-piston is the way to go. I think you will be better served by the standard gas-impingement upper and use a gas-piston on a more used/shorter range caliber (such as your .223/5.56). For an assault rifle the gas-piston is hard to beat, for a sniper/target/benchrest rifle there are alot better systems available. Personally I would go with a bit longer barrel than the 18" to achieve higher velocities, however a shorter barrel can be more accurate due to less flexure at the end of barrel.

Matrix187
April 5, 2009, 09:02 PM
HK PSG 1? If you can get one :evil:

Maverick223
April 6, 2009, 02:06 AM
HK PSG 1? If you can get one
Clone, not original, you need to be rich or stupid to buy a PSG-1...theoak, decided on anything?

badbadtz560
April 12, 2009, 10:46 PM
aren't sr-25s supposed to be capable of sub-MOA too?

JWarren
April 12, 2009, 10:56 PM
aren't sr-25s supposed to be capable of sub-MOA too?

If they are up to par with the SR-25 "clones" out there (i.e. DPMS LR-308, FA Titan FAR-308, Armalite AR-10, JP Enterprises, etc. etc.), then absolutely.

My LR-308 has never shot over MOA at 100 yards (with me behind the wheel.)


-- John

Geno
April 12, 2009, 10:56 PM
The DPMS rifles are claimed to be sub-MOA capable when properly broken-in. My own DPMS AP-4 .308 was 0.25 MOA. That rifle was an 18 pound, customized variant and extremely tight.

Geno

theoak
April 21, 2009, 10:31 PM
I have read several reviews of the Les Baer Super Varmint, all of which claimed accuracy below 1/2 MOA. There doesn't appear to be any other semi-auto rifles currently available that can match that accuracy for the same price.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_6_47/ai_74033117/

JWarren
April 21, 2009, 10:36 PM
I have read several reviews of the Les Baer Super Varmint, all of which claimed accuracy below 1/2 MOA. There doesn't appear to be any other semi-auto rifles currently available that can match that accuracy for the same price.


Plenty can for the price of a Les Baer. A number of people on this thread have routinely broken .5 MOA with a semi.


-- John

Maverick223
April 22, 2009, 12:29 AM
Plenty can for the price of a Les Baer
A DPMS is the best AR for the money IMHO.
** Until further notice, please direct any important PMs to my AR15.com account. User name "Erevis."**
I like your sig., may have to use it on some other less-frequented accounts...Good idea J. :D

theoak
April 22, 2009, 08:55 PM
DPMS are backordered 1-2 years...

I called Les Baer and they said they could ship me a 6.5mm SV in 12 weeks.

Maverick223
April 22, 2009, 09:55 PM
"A DPMS is the best AR for the money IMHO."
Other people agree...:D...DPMS are backordered 1-2 years...
You can't go wrong with a Les Baer though, they make excellent guns.

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