Which Match Trigger for an AR-15?


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Rubber_Duck
March 29, 2009, 03:16 PM
Hey everybody!

In my other thread some of you may have seen my recently-upgraded AR, and now that I have shot it a few times, I have to say the OEM Bushmaster USGI trigger just doesn't cut it anymore. In fact, my AR has one of the worst triggers in the gun safe, and I think it's about time I step up to something better.

So after hours of searching and looking for answers, I can't decide what trigger to get. All I know is I want crisp and non-adjustable, but I'm open to anything (preferably under $250). Midway has the Jewell trigger for $211, and I've read really good things about it, however I've also read good things about JP and Geiselle, and their SSA sounds like exactly what I need. But I would like peoples' opinions on the various triggers out there. I honestly don't care if it is a single- or a two-stage, but as I said I would prefer non-adjustability for the most reliability, but I can live with adjustment screws.

As I said, I'm looking at the Jewell trigger and the Geiselle SSA for now, but would like to consider others, price isn't a concern.

Thanks in advance for any help.

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SwampWolf
March 29, 2009, 03:42 PM
I really like Rock River's two-stage "National Match" trigger. Big bonus: It's affordable.

cbm1948
March 29, 2009, 03:51 PM
I have the Jewell installed on my bushmaster, varmint version, and I like it a lot off the bench < 0.5" groups are possible. This is a testament to a well built rifle and and very controllable trigger system. Be Safe and enjoy your "Bushy".

Clint

Bushmaster Varminter (http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_PCWVMS24FVAR9.asp)

testosterone
March 29, 2009, 04:03 PM
www.americantrigger.com

100% drop in.

I just got one, it is the cat's meow/absolutely awesome, and has 30 day 100% money back guarantee if you don't love it.

forquidder
March 29, 2009, 04:22 PM
If you are looking for crisp and cheap you might try either Bill Springfield to work over your stock Bushmaster trigger,
http://www.triggerwork.net/

or

A Rock River 2 stage trigger from this guy,
http://www.ar15sales.com/rraparts.htm#parts

It might be hard to find the RRA 2 stage in stock, you have the stock trigger to send to Bill.

MJR007
March 29, 2009, 04:24 PM
I just put a Timney 3lb on my 25wssm AR15. I have only pulled the trigger 30 times. So far I am happy. I can give more details when I have more trigger time. Good luck

cbrgator
March 29, 2009, 04:52 PM
Which trigger is best as a hybrid between range and SHTF

P-32
March 29, 2009, 05:07 PM
As I said, I'm looking at the Jewell trigger and the Geiselle SSA for now, but would like to consider others, price isn't a concern.

If it were me I would go with the Geiselle. BUT, the RRA 2 stage is a great trigger for the $.

rskent
March 29, 2009, 05:32 PM
What do you use your rifle for? If it is a range gun it will be hard to beat a Geiselle. If it is a SHTF gun I would give JP the nod. You can set up a JP trigger very crisp with almost no pretravel. Very 1911ish. I have had a jewel in my Bushmaster for a little over two years. It looks a little fragile, but it has held up a lot better than I thought it would.

Steve

CoRoMo
March 29, 2009, 05:34 PM
Which trigger is best as a hybrid between range and SHTF

What are you looking for in a trigger for SHTF?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here either, just curious.
I've always preferred light, crisp triggers for any gun whether it be for hunting, range plinking, etc.

So, what kind of trigger is best for HD/SHTF/CQB?

Edit: For my CCW, I in fact prefer a longer, heavier trigger

JDGray
March 29, 2009, 05:37 PM
+1 for Bill Springfield! His 4# trigger is awesome, cant imagine the 3#:)

cbrgator
March 29, 2009, 05:46 PM
CoRoMo,
I've just been told that two-stage triggers like the RRA are less than ideal for SHTF.

CoRoMo
March 29, 2009, 05:52 PM
I sort of considered that, and should have made an edit.

I definitely need to swap my atrocious LMT trigger for something less creepy.

conarth
March 29, 2009, 05:55 PM
I can't say enough good things about the Geiselle. That is if you have the $279. Otherwise the $120 for the Armalite NM or RRA NM is good also. I have all three.

WC145
March 29, 2009, 09:26 PM
+1 on the Timney 3lb unit. Single stage, clean and crisp, no adjusting, literally drops in. I put one in my patrol rifle, a Bushmaster C15M4, what a difference!! Truly incredible, it is a completely different rifle now.

Dark Skies
March 29, 2009, 09:34 PM
I'm very pleased with the McCormack (did I spell that right?) I've just put in mine. Very crisp and a 100% drop in.

cbrgator
March 29, 2009, 09:39 PM
Whats the best price you guys have found for the Timney. Best I've found is $195.

Acera
March 29, 2009, 10:01 PM
I would look at the Jard.

This is the cheapest I have seen them.
(You don't have to use the .50 BMG stuff, and still get a good trigger, cheap.)

http://store.primalrights.com/

TexasRifleman
March 29, 2009, 10:35 PM
Which trigger is best as a hybrid between range and SHTF

That leads to the Rock River 2 stage almost exclusively. You don't want anything adjustable on a rifle that might be used for defense.

taliv
March 29, 2009, 11:25 PM
So, what kind of trigger is best for HD/SHTF/CQB?


the standard one.

cbrgator
March 29, 2009, 11:51 PM
That leads to the Rock River 2 stage almost exclusively. You don't want anything adjustable on a rifle that might be used for defense.
I was told 2 stages are what NOT to get for defense

TexasRifleman
March 29, 2009, 11:54 PM
I was told 2 stages are what NOT to get for defense

Probably not, but if you insist on one you want one that is not adjustable.

I assumed he was asking what MATCH style trigger would be good for that, and the RRA 2 stage is the safe choice if you want to go that way.

cbrgator
March 29, 2009, 11:57 PM
I couldn't care less if its adjustable. I want a hybrid range/SHTF. As long as it's a light pull, breaks crisply, and under $200. Those are my criteria. Talk to me!

TexasRifleman
March 30, 2009, 12:04 AM
If you ever think the rifle will need to be 100% reliable (as a defensive rifle would) then you do not want an adjustable trigger.

The Rock River is the best choice in a "match" style trigger that is 100% reliable.

$120 according to their website.

cbrgator
March 30, 2009, 12:11 AM
Do you know anything about the Jard trigger Acera mentioned? I'd prefer single stage.

TexasRifleman
March 30, 2009, 12:12 AM
Don't know about Jards. They claim to make a non adjustable model but I've never used one.

The Rock Rivers are in use in large numbers and I like that.

cbrgator
March 30, 2009, 01:12 AM
How much of a hindrance would a 2 stage be in a shtf scenario

TexasRifleman
March 30, 2009, 01:14 AM
How much of a hindrance would a 2 stage be in a shtf scenario

Well in my opinion the Rock River isn't at all. When I shoot the gun fast I don't even feel the second stage. It's only when I take the trigger up slowly that I notice that second stopping point.

skinewmexico
March 30, 2009, 01:20 AM
I've just been told that two-stage triggers like the RRA are less than ideal for SHTF.

Did you ask where the 2 stage trigger originated?

cbrgator
March 30, 2009, 01:23 AM
Did you ask where the 2 stage trigger originated?
Do you mean who manufactured it?

Ed Ames
March 30, 2009, 01:29 AM
I think skinewmexico was implying that 2 stage triggers originated on military rifles... the idea being that military and SHTF uses are similar.

AFAIK the (stated) problems with 2-stage AR triggers are specific to the AR platform and come from the physical size constraints or the like making for smaller and more fragile mechanisms, not the 2-stage pull itself.

Spyvie
March 30, 2009, 01:32 AM
I like the Rock River, simply because it came standard on my $789 middy flat top.

TexasRifleman
March 30, 2009, 01:33 AM
The Garand uses a 2 stage trigger but it was designed that way from the start.

The AR was designed to use a single stage non adjustable trigger and that's likely to always be the best bet for reliability, but if you really want some kind of match style trigger the RRA isn't bad.

If you can find one, the Geissele triggers are probably top of the list, but they are hard to find and close to $300.

cbrgator
March 30, 2009, 01:34 AM
Do RRA's have a reputation from actually failing/breaking under heavy use?

TexasRifleman
March 30, 2009, 01:38 AM
Do RRA's have a reputation from actually failing/breaking under heavy use?

Well, you have to consider the source of course but Arfcom has plenty of stories of the RRA's failing during carbine courses etc.

I've shot a 3 day class of over 1000 rounds with one and didn't have any problems, but the stories are out there often enough to make you wonder.

Rubber_Duck
March 30, 2009, 01:50 AM
Just for the record, I've used the RRA 2-stage and wasn't impressed. My main concern is reliability with a match trigger.

Zak Smith
March 30, 2009, 01:58 AM
For practical/action shooting, the most popular trigger is the JP single-stage match trigger. I have several lowers with this trigger (the 4# version) with 6+ years and tens of thousands of rounds with no problems. For other than dedicated slow-fire target shooting, where I am OK with a 2-stage trigger, I prefer the short-throw single stage JP trigger.

gga357
March 30, 2009, 03:25 AM
Try this:
http://www.americantrigger.com/
Then let us know if you like it. I am concidering this trigger.

MJR007
March 30, 2009, 07:33 AM
I got my Timney from Midway $194.99 with $3.20 shipping.

Good Luck.

Eb1
March 30, 2009, 11:21 AM
Maybe you should give the JP Match Spring a try without replacing the trigger. This alone can make a huge improvement over a factory single stage. It will still be a single stage, but the pull will be better.

WC145
March 30, 2009, 11:40 AM
I couldn't care less if its adjustable. I want a hybrid range/SHTF. As long as it's a light pull, breaks crisply, and under $200. Those are my criteria. Talk to me!

The Timney is also available in a 4lb version as well. I believe the price is the same. I paid $180something for my 3lb unit. Well worth it.

cbrgator
March 30, 2009, 01:26 PM
I think I actually might be settled on the Timney but can't find it in stock for under $200. Anybody know a spot?

Rubber_Duck
March 30, 2009, 04:47 PM
I didn't think this thread would get this many responses, thanks guys.

I'm still undecided about the trigger but I'm really leaning towards the Geiselle SSA, I've been reading nothing but good things about it but I haven't been able to find a retailer for them, there seems to be a VERY long wait time on the Geiselles.

MJR007
March 30, 2009, 08:06 PM
Try Timney's on line store. I try to support Midway. They have been very good to me over the years. Good Luck.

nonquixote
March 30, 2009, 08:44 PM
I have the Jard 3# non-adjustable in my M4gery, and the 3# adjustable in my 20" varmint rifle. I'm not an AR trigger expert but I've been pleased with both of mine.

1858
March 30, 2009, 09:10 PM
I'm a fan of the Timney 3lb trigger too. I have one (skeleton trigger) in one of my Bushmaster lowers and will be ordering another (solid trigger this time) for another Bushmaster lower. Midway sells the Timney for $194.99 but they're on backorder until 5/15. I like the birthday discounts that Midway offers ... the Timney trigger can be had for $171.59 using that discount. :D

:)

skinewmexico
March 30, 2009, 09:54 PM
I think skinewmexico was implying that 2 stage triggers originated on military rifles... the idea being that military and SHTF uses are similar.

We have a winner!

roach68
March 30, 2009, 10:43 PM
Can someone give some more information on Bill Springfield worked triggers? Single? 2 stage? Any problems? Thanks

testosterone
March 31, 2009, 12:29 PM
this is slightly dated, but good info...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=501733#Post501733

re-iterating my vote for www.americantrigger.com. it is sweetness.

Someone mentioned chip mccormick drop in, the above was designed in part by Chip.

Someone else also mentioned, best trigger for shtf is the stock usgi spec.

I humbly agree with that assesment. If you must have the absolute best reliability, the standard trigger group probably can't be beat, just a guess.

Ghost Tracker
March 31, 2009, 12:37 PM
I have a Jewell two-stage in my varmint AR & a smoothed USGI-spec in my M4. If you try to get the best of both worlds with the same set-up, often you're not completely satisified in either one!

testosterone
March 31, 2009, 12:43 PM
Quote:
I think skinewmexico was implying that 2 stage triggers originated on military rifles... the idea being that military and SHTF uses are similar.
We have a winner!


Is this really true.

My understanding of this is different. I thought two stage triggers were defacto in(early) firearms for safety reasons, it was not at all in particular to military origins, but would like to know what the whole story is.

The "safety" reason being that single stage mechanisms were prone to AD's if the firearms was bumped or knocked around.

Good single stage triggers became prevelant in sporting rifles only once mass manufacturing of trigger mechanisms that were not going off when the rifle was dropped on its butt or whatever was possible.

This also meant of course that the second stage of 2-stage triggers got better, I would think.

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