If a LEO can see a knife's pocket clip is it legall?


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deltastorm11
March 29, 2009, 05:30 PM
I heard from a few people that if a knife's pocket clip is visible to the public then it is not considered a concealed weapon and it can legally be carried by someone without a CWL. The question is whether or not this is true? Also I am in Florida and if anyone has any blade restrictions that they know of please share.

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indoorsoccerfrea
March 29, 2009, 05:32 PM
where are you from? im not aware of anywhere that it is illegal to carry a concealed folder...even california allows it

Gunfighter123
March 29, 2009, 09:35 PM
I have read/heard from Bernard Levins site , that there have been arrests from LEs just seeing a large Buck type knife in a buttoned up belt sheath.

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/links.htm


EDIT --- Delta , the above link has most state knife laws and lots of other interesting info.

The Lone Haranguer
March 29, 2009, 09:38 PM
Even if it were seen, what of it? It is still just a pocketknife.

Gunfighter123
March 29, 2009, 09:42 PM
Some/most states have a maximum blade length --- anything over XXX inches is illeagle.

Gunfighter123
March 29, 2009, 09:45 PM
For Tn ---- see very last part;

Tennessee updated 1/14/2006

EXCERPTS


39-17-1301. Part definitions.

As used in this part, unless the context otherwise requires:

(1) "Club" means any instrument that is specially designed, made or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument;

(2) "Crime of violence" includes any degree of murder, voluntary manslaughter, aggravated rape, rape, especially aggravated robbery, aggravated robbery, burglary, aggravated assault or aggravated kidnapping;

(6) "Immediate vicinity" refers to the area within the person's immediate control within which the person has ready access to the ammunition;

(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument;

(8) "Knuckles" means any instrument that consists of finger rings or guards made of a hard substance and that is designed, made or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with a fist enclosed in the knuckles;

(14) "Switchblade knife" means any knife that has a blade which opens automatically by:
(A) Hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle; or
(B) Operation of gravity or inertia;

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, 1; 1990, ch. 1029, 1; 2001, ch. 375, 1, 2.]



*

39-17-1302. Prohibited weapons.

(a) A person commits an offense who intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs or sells:

(7) A switchblade knife or knuckles; or

(8) Any other implement for infliction of serious bodily injury or death which has no common lawful purpose.

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the person's conduct:

(1) Was incident to the performance of official duty and pursuant to military regulations in the army, navy, air force, coast guard or marine service of the United States or the Tennessee national guard, or was incident to the performance of official duty in a governmental law enforcement agency or a penal institution;

(2) Was incident to engaging in a lawful commercial or business transaction with an organization identified in subdivision (b)(1);

(4) Was incident to using the weapon in a manner reasonably related to a lawful dramatic performance or scientific research;

(5) Was incident to displaying the weapon in a public museum or exhibition;

(6) Was licensed by the state of Tennessee as a manufacturer, importer or dealer in weapons; provided, that the manufacture, import, purchase, possession, sale or disposition of weapons is authorized and incident to carrying on the business for which licensed and is for scientific or research purposes or sale or disposition to the organization designated in subdivision (b)(1); or

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section which the person must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that:

(1) The person's conduct was relative to dealing with the weapon solely as a curio, ornament or keepsake, and if the weapon is a type described in subdivisions (a)(1)-(5), that it was in a nonfunctioning condition and could not readily be made operable; or

(2) The possession was brief and occurred as a consequence of having found the weapon or taken it from an aggressor.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, 1; 1990, ch. 1029, 2, 11; 2001, ch. 375, 3, 4; 2002, ch. 849, 5.]



*

39-17-1306. Carrying weapons during judicial proceedings.

(a) No person shall intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carry on or about the person while inside any room in which judicial proceedings are in progress any weapon prohibited by 39-17-1302(a), for the purpose of going armed; provided, that if the weapon carried is a firearm, the person is in violation of this section regardless of whether such weapon is carried for the purpose of going armed.

(b) Any person violating subsection (a) commits a Class E felony.

(c) The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to any person who:

(1) Is in the actual discharge of official duties as a law enforcement officer, or is employed in the army, air force, navy, coast guard or marine service of the United States or any member of the Tennessee national guard in the line of duty and pursuant to military regulations, or is in the actual discharge of official duties as a guard employed by a penal institution, or as a bailiff, marshal or other court officer who has responsibility for protecting persons or property or providing security; or

(2) Has been directed by a court to bring the firearm for purposes of providing evidence.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, 1; 1990, ch. 1029, 5; 2000, ch. 988, 2.]




*

39-17-1307. Unlawful carrying or possession of a weapon.

(a) (1) A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm, a knife with a blade length exceeding four inches (4"), or a club.

(2) An offense under subdivision (a)(1) is a Class C misdemeanor, except it is a Class A misdemeanor if the person's carrying of a handgun occurred at a place open to the public where one (1) or more persons were present.

(b) (1) A person commits an offense who possesses a handgun and:

(A) Has been convicted of a felony involving the use or attempted use of force, violence or a deadly weapon; or

(B) Has been convicted of a felony drug offense.

(c) (1) A person commits an offense who possesses any deadly weapon with intent to employ it in the commission of or escape from an offense.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, 1; 1990, ch. 1029, 6.]

Gunfighter123
March 29, 2009, 09:46 PM
39-17-1307. Unlawful carrying or possession of a weapon.

(a) (1) A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm, a knife with a blade length exceeding four inches (4"), or a club.

(2) An offense under subdivision (a)(1) is a Class C misdemeanor, except it is a Class A misdemeanor if the person's carrying of a handgun occurred at a place open to the public where one (1) or more persons were present.



Four inches in your state.

ACBMWM3
March 29, 2009, 09:47 PM
Some/most states have a maximum blade length --- anything over XXX inches is illeagle.

Exactly
http://www.thehighroad.org/library/blades/knifelaws.html

Gunfighter123
March 29, 2009, 09:48 PM
The knife laws are even more confuseing then the firearms laws in most states.

Gunfighter123
March 29, 2009, 09:50 PM
ACB --- great minds think alike:D

Gunfighter123
March 29, 2009, 09:52 PM
BTW --- also some people have been arrested just for carrying a Leatherman type of knife/pliers combo.

deltastorm11
March 29, 2009, 09:53 PM
With all due respect no one has really answered my question. Everytime I find a question like this it is always given a reply of "Go to this link here and there and read these confusing law descriptions":banghead:. Well again with all due respect could someone please just give me a simple answer of whether or not a tactical style knife is legal to carry without a concealed weapons permit in the state of Florida if the knife's pocket clip is visible to everyone?:D

Gambit88
March 29, 2009, 09:59 PM
My grandfather lived in florida and sent me a swichblade for xmas last year. It was a utilty blade with a compass in the handle. aparently it was completly legal as a utiltiy knife becuase of some loophole for handycapped people and electricl workers who only could use one hand for whatever reason.

Gunfighter123
March 29, 2009, 10:12 PM
From what I have just read on your state ---- ONLY in MY OPINION , YES , a police officier COULD arrest you for a "tactical " folding knife.

Your law states -- unlawfull to carry concealed except a COMMON POCKET KNIFE.

Now , what is a COMMON POCKET KNIFE.
WHATEVER the cop says it is AT THE TIME


EDIT ---- you may want to ask this question in the Legal Section here on THR

Bix
March 29, 2009, 11:22 PM
With all due respect no one has really answered my question. Everytime I find a question like this it is always given a reply of "Go to this link here and there and read these confusing law descriptions". Well again with all due respect could someone please just give me a simple answer of whether or not a tactical style knife is legal to carry without a concealed weapons permit in the state of Florida if the knife's pocket clip is visible to everyone?

Umm - you're asking for a legal opinion on an internet gunboard...

A link to the relevant statute is about the best you're going to get.

hankdatank1362
March 30, 2009, 01:56 AM
Only a few of us here are actually lawyers. I'm pretty sure they're not willing to interpret applicable state law for you without a retainer.

You might get some "yes/no" answers, and they're worth about as much as you paid for 'em. The person giving the advice isn't going to be paying for your bail or legal defense if they're wrong.

So, without forking over the money for true legal advice, the best you can do is read the applicable laws and interpret for yourself what they mean. Even if they're "confusing."

hso
March 30, 2009, 10:02 AM
As has been said, asking for a clear legal interpretation from the members of an internet site isn't going to garner a clear legal interpretation for you.

There are a couple of things that can be cleared up.

A carry permit for a state that is only for handguns does not allow you to carry any other prohibited weapon. Prohibited knives, clubs, etc. only are covered in states with a weapon carry permit system. FL has such a system so someone with a carry permit can carry just about anything "concealed".

Switchblades are legal in states that permit them and are prohibited in states that don't. In some states you may possess, but not carry. In some you may not even possess. In others you may possess and carry a switchblade as if it were a "common pocket knife". FL treats switchblades as common pocket knives. Michigan does not and treats them as prohibited for possession except for LE and one armed persons (http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/mi.txt).

There is no definition for what a "common pocketknife" might be.

Does a clip constitute not carrying concealed? You'd have to go to FL case law to see what the preponderance of opinion has been in court cases.

Kind of Blued
March 31, 2009, 03:23 AM
With all due respect no one has really answered my question. Everytime I find a question like this it is always given a reply of "Go to this link here and there and read these confusing law descriptions"

That's because "some guy on the internet said it was ok" is not going to work if you're talking to a police officer, or even a judge.

If you're going to exercise rights, you need to know what they are, not what others tell you they are.

kanook
March 31, 2009, 08:25 AM
I slept at a holiday inn last night and I can't that question. I believe the NRA offers for sale a Knife Law book, but that would require more research and reading on your part. If you are 21, take the CWP class and don't worry about. Altough getting a permit to carry requires alot more reading and alot of interpitation of more laws that get even more complicated

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