DSA FAL or a Springfield Armory Scout Squad


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P.B.Walsh
March 29, 2009, 07:04 PM
Of the dsa fal and the sa scout squad which is better for:

Hunting,SHTF:),target,aftermarket support, and price (1000-1800), and I also prefer a pistol grip.
The gun will be used in a battle rifle setup(iron sights only).

Please no AR-10s or AK-47 type rifles.

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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 29, 2009, 07:04 PM
DSA. Both are nice, though.

Deer Hunter
March 29, 2009, 07:07 PM
with your criteria, the FAL wins.

P.B.Walsh
March 29, 2009, 07:12 PM
I am leaning a bit to dsa, but does anyone know the difference between their Austrailian type fals and their SA58 rifles.

gvnwst
March 29, 2009, 07:16 PM
with your criteria, the FAL wins.

Yep. I personally like the FAL a lot more than the M1a too.;)

JShirley
March 29, 2009, 07:21 PM
FAL.

Deer Hunter
March 29, 2009, 07:29 PM
The STG58s are, in my opinion, just as good as the SA58s. The only problem is they come in limited types.

However, you can call DSA and have them build an STG58 gun on one of their receivers with whatever barrel length, which is nice. I went with an 18" barrel on my STG58. It cost me $890 when all was said and done.

Shame that that was just two years ago.

TexasRifleman
March 29, 2009, 07:59 PM
I am leaning a bit to dsa, but does anyone know the difference between their Austrailian type fals and their SA58 rifles.

Good choice to lean towards the FAl.

As to the other, the STG58's only come in a few specific configurations where their own SArifles are orderable in all kinds of setups.

If you find an STG58 setup you like there is absolutely nothing wrong with that choice.

P.B.Walsh
March 29, 2009, 08:06 PM
Thanks for all of the replies, I just with they wasn't $1200 plus.
But their a helluva lot more reliable than than the great gas-imengpent ARs and they'll last a lifetime.

H2O MAN
March 29, 2009, 08:06 PM
Scout Squad in an E2 stock.

natescout
March 29, 2009, 08:53 PM
squad scout / bush , with an aftermarket stock , (sage, troy, or E2) gets my vote ,but you cant go wrong with a FAL either

MTMilitiaman
March 29, 2009, 09:14 PM
I disagree. If you're sticking with irons, the sights on the M1A will serve you far better than the sights on the FAL, or nearly any other rifle existent. The standard irons on the M1A are among the best ever placed on a battle rifle and are fully capable of taking you out as far as you want to go. I have achieved hits out to 600 yards with a bone stock M1A Loaded and bulk cheapo 147 gr FMJs.

If a pistol grip and rails are a must, you can drop it into a chassis system from Troy, Sage, or VLTOR.

HorseSoldier
March 29, 2009, 09:17 PM
FAL gets my vote (enough so that I own two of them). Great design, superior ergonomics for its era, and combat accurate -- plus some really superb history to go with it.

I am leaning a bit to dsa, but does anyone know the difference between their Austrailian type fals and their SA58 rifles.

Austrian types. StG-58s are built on surplus Austrian FAL kits (Sturmgewehr-58 was their designation for the rifle). SA-58s are all American parts, built on surplus tooling DSA bought from Austria.

(Real) StG-58 . . .
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/jboschma/081707_14371.jpg?t=1238371252

DSA SA-58 Para Carbine
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/jboschma/DSALtSideSAWGrip-1.jpg?t=1238371409

The main difference that jumps out at me is that I believe DSA sells their StG-58s with the original metal hand guards and bipod. The bipod isn't really practical, and the metal hand guards get insanely hot if you are planning to do a good bit of shooting in one go. (They'll also occasionally work loose and fall off the rifle when firing fully automatic, but obviously not a consideration with a civilian rifle.)

Quality between the two is a toss up, unless DSA is recycling really played out Austrian kits. All the .mil StG-58s I've ever handled were in very good condition and had been well built with real attention to detail -- not sure how heavily used they were before the US .mil bought them, but the ones we had were very well made. DSA stuff is new, and the quality is good, in my experience.

Thanks for all of the replies, I just with they wasn't $1200 plus.
But their a helluva lot more reliable than than the great gas-imengpent ARs and they'll last a lifetime.

Meh. FALs (and M14 clones) have their occasional hiccups, too. If you go into either one thinking they're infallible, you'll be disappointed.

lipadj46
March 29, 2009, 09:25 PM
If you are planning to stick to irons only I would take the M1A as it has hands down the best iron sites on a military rifle. The only thing is that if you really want a pistol grip stock it will cost you big time.

Deer Hunter
March 29, 2009, 11:35 PM
If you want a different rear sight on the FAL, DSA offers them. Fully adjustable ones like you'd find on an AR.

alaskanativeson
March 30, 2009, 12:45 AM
Thanks for all of the replies, I just with they wasn't $1200 plus.
But their a helluva lot more reliable than than the great gas-imengpent ARs and they'll last a lifetime.
Um, no. The FAL is indeed incredibly reliable. It approaches the AK style rifles for reliability. But it's not much more reliable than an AR10. I'm not going to try to talk you into an AR, but let me give a counterpoint to the AR fallacies that have abounded since the Vietnam era M16s came out.

My brother served in both Desert Shield and Desert Storm. He said in the thousands of rounds he fired in wild desert conditions he never had a problem. He said in his whole platoon they never had a problem.

I live on the coast of the Bering Sea in Alaska. Few areas of the earth are harder on weapons that this is. My DPMS AR10 in .243 Win has never had a single malfunction. The piston addition on an AR style rifle is a solution to a problem that doesn't, for all practical purposes, exist. AR style rifles are wicked reliable. Period.

That said, I'm not giving up my DSA Para either. Great rifle, classic and functional. The stock iron sights on the FAL aren't as good as the stock ones on the M1A, but they're replaceable with very good ones.

The M1A is a very good rifle, I'd really wanted one until I shot one. I still think it's a great rifle but I didn't really like the ergonomics as well as I did the FAL. Replacement parts for the FAL are plentiful and cheap, parts for the M1A are much more expensive and somewhat more rare.

In short, I'd recommend the FAL for your criteria, but I'd recommend a different set of sights. I'd also suggest you not completely discount the AR. For all practical purposes it beats everything out there in my book.

H2O MAN
March 30, 2009, 12:49 AM
Your total price is restrictive - get the best rifle that you can afford.

Don't forget mags and ammo!

DSAPT9
March 30, 2009, 01:45 AM
I am a big fan of both but I settled on the DSA SA58s. I have a folding stock 16.5in para and a 16.5 in standard stock with full tactical rail and Leupold 3x9 on it I have hunted with both but just prefer the lay out of the FAL best and FAL mags are cheaper than M1A/M14 mags.

P.B.Walsh
March 30, 2009, 02:37 AM
Well crap with all these answers I'm at a 3way crossway.
The FAl is cheaper
The AR10 is the closest to an AR15 without being.223
The M1A is what I've always wanted, expensive for a 15 year old with no job.
Y'all are right on with the iron sights though, I just wish the troy wasn't so costly.
I do want to become a U.S. Marine when I turn 19 though so the AR10 would get me familiar with the M16 rifle and their are endless upgrodes for it. Where could I get a gas piston upper for.
The m1a and the ar10 are purebread American to not Belgum or German blueprinted so......so many choices.

TexasRifleman
March 30, 2009, 09:52 AM
The M1A is what I've always wanted, expensive for a 15 year old with no job.

Something to consider. Find one of the Chinese M14 copies, Norinco etc. You can buy them in the $1000 range, probably less. (not sure lately)

Shoot it for a while. No it's not going to be the greatest thing ever but....the receivers on those guns are absolutely top notch.

When you get some more cash send that Chinese rifle to one of the custom M14 shops like Warbirds or something and have a top shelf rifle built. The Chinese receivers are the perfect starting place for a high end build.

In the meantime you have what you really want, and you can shoot it, it's just not where you want it yet. You can add to it over time.

Something to think about anyway.

http://www.warbirdscustomguns.com/

H2O MAN
March 30, 2009, 10:01 AM
Quote:
The M1A is what I've always wanted, expensive for a 15 year old with no job.

TexasRifleman

Something to consider. Find one of the Chinese M14 copies, Norinco etc. You can buy them in the $1000 range, probably less. (not sure lately)

Shoot it for a while. No it's not going to be the greatest thing ever but....the receivers on those guns are absolutely top notch.

When you get some more cash send that Chinese rifle to one of the custom M14 shops like Warbirds or something and have a top shelf rifle built. The Chinese receivers are the perfect starting place for a high end build.

Excellent suggestion!

Both of these began life as bone stock Norinco M14s in Chu wood stocks.
I had Smith Enterprise, Inc. build them up as funds and parts became available.


http://www.athenswater.com/images/H2O-M14-3.jpg


http://www.athenswater.com/images/H2O-M14-5.jpg

Robert
March 30, 2009, 10:35 AM
Go with the FAL. Mags are less expensive than the M1. The only thing I have against my FAL, kit built on a DSA upper, is the iron sights are not the best but as soon as I can save up for an ACOG that problem is solved. I like the M1A and would love to have one but between the two I'd take my FAL any day. But that is just me. Sure it may not be as accurate but I will not notice. I can hit what I am aiming at and that is good enough for me.

Robert
March 30, 2009, 10:38 AM
Vote Count:
FAL 14
M1A 5

H2O MAN
March 30, 2009, 10:40 AM
I didn't vote for the FAL or the M1A :neener:

Robert
March 30, 2009, 10:42 AM
lol ok Mk whatever sop2 thingy... nice looking rifles none the less.

Duelist
March 30, 2009, 10:44 AM
PTR 91?

I don't own one but I hear they are really good.

gvnwst
March 30, 2009, 10:53 AM
Where could I get a gas piston upper for.

POF USA makes them, and i think that some others are GP. A properly built DI AR-10 will be very reliable though, the main thing IMO for GP rifles is ease of cleaning after firing a lot of rounds, my POF in .223 is way easier to clean than any other DI AR i have seen.

If you want to go with a AR-10, DPMS makes nice ones, and you should be able to find one for about $1k, depending on how hard the rush hit your area. I have bushy and DPMS AR-10s all over where i am...

lipadj46
March 30, 2009, 06:23 PM
15 with no job is going to be hard to afford feeding a .308. You may not want an AK type rifle but at least the ammo is cheap and you can hunt with it and actually afford to practice.

dscottw88
March 30, 2009, 06:55 PM
I'd go with a FAL over anything else. This goes for the PTR91, and M1A. The only other rifle that comes close is the AR10. The FAL already has a pistol grip and doesn't need an expensive stock to remedy it. I'm not a fan of changing rifles too far from their original design.

Jaws
March 30, 2009, 07:46 PM
Get the FAL. You can get them with AR style sights if you think the original ones are not that good and DSA makes the best FAL made in numbers up to now. You can't go wrong.:)

P.B.Walsh
March 30, 2009, 09:07 PM
Well thanks for all of the sugestions. The ammo won't be a big deal because I can't get out and shoot alot, besides every now and then in the summer and oviusly (sorry I can't spell worth anything) in the summer. The other m1a's are an option, and considering how much I have loved upgrading my Remington sps .308 varmit (fyi I'm putting an HS tactical thumbhole and I've got some good ol' rust oleum camo paint, I wish I knew how to post pictures).

Howerver the direct impingment system has got to be reliable or the U.S. Millitary wouldn't still have em' this long.

And since I won't be fightin' against anything but deer and paper I won't be in a life endangering situation where a failure won't cost me my life only possible meat. So about less than what 60 rounds every time I can get an opportunity to go and shoot, it 'spect it'll be reliable enough to get the gob done, they look pretty cool out of the factory. I'm not looking for match grade accuracy only a solid 1-1.5 MOA. And the DPMS rifles from what I can hear are good in the reliable and accuate department, aulthou (spelling once again) the M1A are good in that department. The Marines use em' for their DMR rifles and the Army is now adopting the M110 for their primary sniper rifle, man if I could only get my hands on one of those beauties.......sigh.
The Euro FALs are good, I don't know mabye I just love American designs, I'm pretty baised, so don't get me even started on the R700 or Surgen Actions vs. Anything (aultho I'd love a AI rifle in .308 with a 20" barrel).
By the way how accurate is an out of the box chinesse or Morrico M1A with no sage or troy stock of course.

P.B.Walsh
March 30, 2009, 09:40 PM
By the way if SHTF (what 15yr. old thinks about that :) ) I got my Remy 700 for reliablility and accuratecy covered.

H2O MAN
March 30, 2009, 10:21 PM
P.B.Walsh
By the way how accurate is an out of the box chinesse or Morrico M1A with no sage or troy stock of course.

China imported Poly Tech and Norinco M14s and they are as accurate as any rack grade USGI M14 would be.

Speaking of the M110... The modernized and redesigned M14 was recently dubbed the Ultimate semi-auto sniper system! Have a look (http://www.athenswater.com/M21A5_CrazyHorse.htm).

Oh yeah, only Springfield Armory, Inc. makes an M1A.

lipadj46
March 30, 2009, 10:35 PM
If you can a chinese M14 these days for under $1000 buy it and be happy you have the last great deal left in the M14 world.

P.B.Walsh
March 31, 2009, 12:45 AM
Yea I've heard only good things about the Crazy Horses.
The imported m14s are tempting.
There is diffinnate "tacticool" thing about an AR, I'm really a tacticool junkie, and love some good "gun porn". :) :):evil:

I think (for the time) I should by a AR-10. And when I get a job start bying more guns and settle for right now for the great guns I have right now...... plus an AR.
I really won't an " evil black gun" aulthou all my guns (modern guns) are and will be painted. So how 'bout an "evil silluoette" he he....

jpcolt76
March 31, 2009, 08:49 AM
I have owned many semi 308s; 3 M1As, 2 DSA FALs, 1 DPMS and 2 PTR91s and the ones that made it through the cull are 2 M1As and one is a scout. I want a 308 that works in the field for harvesting game and could pull defense duties and the M1A does both good. The FAL is a BETTER high volume of fire defense rifle. The M1A shines as a low rate of aimed fire marksman/hunting rifle. If you grew up with hunting rifles the M1A brings it all together in a heck of a package. Lets face it what are you most likely going to be doing with a $.50 a round rifle no matter what the situation. Aint it fun to determine what your next rifle should be?!!!!!!

Hostile Amish
March 31, 2009, 09:38 AM
FAL, because of less avaliability (makes it more interesting) and high avaliability of magazines.

P.B.Walsh
March 31, 2009, 09:38 AM
The hunting part of it the scout wins it has the Shape of a hunting rifle the durability and accuratecy

Good m1a owner reveiw
Can anyone give me a good/bad review on an AR10 essesialy from DPMS.
I'm looking at their LR-.308C it's in a A2 configuration.

Deer Hunter
March 31, 2009, 11:36 AM
The hunting part of it the scout wins it has the Shape of a hunting rifle

I don't think the deer really care about the shape of your hunting stick.

My FAL is my main rifle for hunting.

alaskanativeson
March 31, 2009, 02:36 PM
The AR10 is really hard to beat. I have the DPMS AR10 in .243 Winchester and an Armalite in .308. I haven't had the Armalite long enough to have more than a crude sense of it's accuracy, I can get get 5 shot groups just over an inch with the factory stuff I was shooting.

I've had the DPMS for quite some time and can tell you a lot more about it. This is a gun that has never given me a bit of trouble, even shooting in an Arctic winter. From a bench using Federal Premium 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip I get .75" groups and have done that with 4 straight boxes allowing it to cool between groups. With 100 grain Nosler Partitions I get just under 1" groups. That's more accuracy than I'll ever need, really nice to know it's there though.

The AR's versatility can't be beat. You have the ability to switch sights from open sights to scope quickly and easily, and you can switch calibers by pulling a couple of pins. I don't have the uppers yet, but when I go down to Denver this Summer I'm going to get two new uppers for my AR: A 7mm-08 and a .450 Marlin. Imagine the ability to switch from a long range varmint gun (.243) to a long range light hunting gun (7mm-08) to a large game rifle (.308) to a bush country monster killer (.450 Marlin) all in one very reliable gun. Like I said, it's hard to beat.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g235/Rodgersplace/DPMS.jpg

MTMilitiaman
March 31, 2009, 02:43 PM
Yeah but then you're stuck with an AR...

dat2
March 31, 2009, 02:55 PM
I've always wanted a FAL, but I would like to have both

Absent
March 31, 2009, 04:04 PM
DSA SA-58 Para Carbine
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/jboschma/DSALtSideSAWGrip-1.jpg?t=1238371409



Is that a TA11 ACOG in 308. on your Para SA58? That is the scope I have been looking at for a DSA and I am curious if you like it?

This is my first post and I do not think I quoted you right.

P.B.Walsh
March 31, 2009, 07:33 PM
Sorry about the "hunting stock design" accuslly I despise the average hunting rifle (walnut sporter stock with a flimsy little toothpick barrel). They are my ENEMIES.

The modularity of an AR is without question, from deers (.308) to small varmits (.204), however I'm just using the .308 from 16" to 20". Remember I'm looking for a BATTLE RIFLE not a ooooo... Look at my .5 MOA rifle. I say yea but that's only with one particlar grain, powder,etc. ect........
This is one reason am leaning toawards a AR DI system, I heard their more accuate (out of the box not no Crazy Horse customs). Is this true or I'm I just hearing a load of crap.

For the future and past Thank you Sooooo much for helping me out, your the only "gun talk" I got, thanks again.

TexasRifleman
March 31, 2009, 08:03 PM
your the only "gun talk" I got, thanks again.

That's bad. We will help you spend a LOT of money :)

You need a voice of reason too LOL.

Deer Hunter
March 31, 2009, 08:37 PM
If it helps any.... My first rifle was an STG58 from DSArms.

I have taken the scope off and now use the irons. Maybe I'll scope it again one day?

Maybe.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x91/Captain_Kennedy/P6030038.jpg

Not my booze in the back. One of the guys had a brew or two after the hunt.
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x91/Captain_Kennedy/DSC00921.jpg

P.B.Walsh
March 31, 2009, 09:07 PM
"We will help you spend a LOT of money". Sorry don't know how to use :banghead:quotes.

Don't know about that one.?.?.?..?.?.??? Not yet for the time being.:cool:


You don't look like a happy hunter, don't know about you but whenever I go hunting I'm always happy seing a deer or not, I feel closer to God when I hunt, more natural fir a like of a better term.
Sorry mabey you don't like taking pictures I HATE them.
Nice guns though.

P.B.Walsh
March 31, 2009, 09:14 PM
Still any TRUTH on Direct impengment vs. Gas piston (in the accuatcy department).

Thanks

Deer Hunter
March 31, 2009, 09:17 PM
I am smiling. :D

Honestly Walsh, it's not DI vs Piston you have to worry about. There are plenty of DI guns that don't get the hate an AR's DI system gets.

ARs are reliable. AKs are accurate.

Let's move on.

gvnwst
March 31, 2009, 09:19 PM
Still any TRUTH on Direct impengment vs. Gas piston
What about the two systems?

If you are talking about accuracy, yes, theoretically, DI is more accurate, as there is no mass actually moving that can disturb the harmonics of the barrel, vs a piston is actually moving mass. There are some accurate GP rifles, my POF is way more accurate than i am (better shooter and good ammo 1/2" is good, and .7" is normal) but there are some REALLY accurate DI rifles.

P.B.Walsh
April 1, 2009, 12:03 AM
"ARs are reliable and AKs are accuate".

Wow that IS really true, I'm not being sarcastic either!

AKs are MOA of human chest and ARs will save your life, I know.
That's what AKs were built for and the same goes for ARs.
I applaud you that is a VERY great statement, mabey the best (literaly) thing I've heard all day, wow brightened up my day by about 10% thank you for that. But I was asking about accuratcy, thanks anyway for the GREAT quote. Some people will disagree but that statement is right one.

Thank you again.

alaskanativeson
April 1, 2009, 02:38 AM
The piston system is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. The piston is supposed to make an AR more reliable because it doesn't get fouled as much. The AR style rifle is reliable enough for the U.S. Military to depend on it for several decades.

D-Day
April 1, 2009, 08:22 AM
"If you can a chinese M14 these days for under $1000 buy it and be happy you have the last great deal left in the M14 world."

I picked up a Polytech M-14 in September for $760; had less than 100 rounds through it. Never fired myself. Sold it 'cause I needed money for other things.

P.B.Walsh
April 1, 2009, 09:26 AM
I just found a GREAT deal on a brand new SA Scout squad for $1600 for $50-$60 a month for payment at www.budsgunshop.com.
Is this a reputible compony/site.

Deer Hunter
April 1, 2009, 03:40 PM
I've ordered pistols from them before. They are a good company to do business with.

Be sure to buy what you want, though. Sometimes it's important to get advice from boards such as these. Othertimes, however, it can be a chore sorting out the good advice from the misinformation.

Example: Recently there was another thread where someone was asking about the differences of DSA and Enterprise, as they are the two manufacturers of FAL-type rifles in the US right now.

H20 Man, a rabid M1A supporter, suggested he take a look at an M1A of sorts. Or maybe even an AR-10.

Whether or not the original poster asked about those guns or not.

You will get a lot of information. Just weed it out and do some research on your own. A good place for FAL information is over at FALfiles.com.

H2O MAN
April 1, 2009, 03:59 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3111/2564590109_08333a0d5b_o.gif

DH, get your facts straight and be sure to check out post
#19 in this thread titled Contemplating a SOCOM M1A (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=439695)


Deer Hunter

H20 Man, a rabid M1A supporter,

:what: When have I ever been a rabid supporter of the M1A?

Deer Hunter
April 1, 2009, 04:08 PM
I'm as light as a feather. :) And come on, you can't sit here and tell me that you don't support the M1A, right?

Besides, you've got the wrong thread.

In either case, I'm just informing the OP that there are plenty of places to get all kinds of information on the internet. However, you get what you pay for.

H2O MAN
April 1, 2009, 04:43 PM
I've got the right thread, just read post #19...

I am not a fan of Springfield's M1A, at least not the ones built without USGI parts.
The one M1A that I owned required four warranty repairs before I parted it out.

I am a big fan of the M14 especially Poly Tech and Norinco M14s modernized by SEI :)

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