[possummanplus3]

Hi, I'm wondering what's your alls opinions of the glaser safety slugs, say, with a 45 acp 1911. I'm talking how well they work, not overpenetrating, and reliability. Are these a worthy consideration for HD?

[RyanM]

Definitely not. Gimmick ammo at best. They can make a big hole if you manage a perfectly placed shot, but they just don't penetrate deep enough for a shot at some unusual angle, as can happen with self defense.

The ironic thing is that though they don't meet the FBI's penetration requirements if you shoot someone directly, they do meet requirements if they pass through an interior wall first! So Glasers are arguably deadlier to innocent bystanders than they are to crooks.

[Dan Crocker]

I've heard that they won't reliably cycle the action in a semi-automatic. Regardless of what else they may or may not do, that right there is a show-stopper for me.

[Gunfighter123]

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=177203&highlight=glaser


I like and use them ---- I am still looking for the thread where I had some good links posted

[Gunfighter123]

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-162226.html

[Ron James]

I have found most of the negitive comments are second hand. I have heard, someone told me or else the old staement they mdon't make a deep hole. They were not designed to make a deep hole and they never will.
they are designed to pentatate and fragment. They do that very well. Like the non issue with mim parts, the effectiveness of the glasser is a non issue. What they were designed to do , they do very well. It really boils down to personal choice. Like them or don't like them.:)

[pbearperry]

I think a Glaser in the neck would work all the time.Outside of that,they can be iffy.Sometimes in the summer when everyone is without coats,I put one first up with regular hollowpoints after them.

[Gunfighter123]

I load as pbearperry does ---- I NEVER have a full mag of just Glasers but have Ball and hollow/soft points loaded after the Glaser.

[punkndisorderly]

Glasers are more expensive and don't generally penetrate as deeply as other, popular bullet designs.

I think Glasers are a good option if they answer your specific need. If you live in an apartment or have people in other rooms of your house, they may be the ticket. If not, your probably better served with traditional defensive hollowpoints (gold dot, hyrdrashock, golden saber, etc).

One thing to consider: you should plan on running at least 100 rounds of whatever you plan to carry through your firearm to check for function, accuracy, and point of aim. As expensive as Glasers are, that's an expensive proposition.

Outside of the forums, I've read mixed things by established gunwriters. One story I remember reading over a decade ago is a story of an autopsy of a criminal that had been shot a few times in the chest with a .45 loaded with Glasers. When they opened him up, he was hollow. All of his organs had been jellied and ran out the entrance wounds. I've been looking for the source of this a few times but haven't been able to find it.

[SCKimberFan]

Too high priced. A lot better other choices out there. Gold Dots, Hornaday Tap, etc

[Sir Aardvark]

At one time Glaser's used to be the cat's pajamas, but, with all of the newer bullet technology that has been developed since Glaser's came to market, you now have much better options available for self-defense.

I remember when about your only options for "self-defense" rounds were Glaser's or Winchester Silvertips.

Multiple manufacturers now provide a plethora of bullet designs specifically engineered for self-defense - Gold Dots, SXT/Ranger, Hydra-Shok, Golden Saber, HST, TAP CQ, and the list goes on...

Available now are: prescored jackets that give reliable, consistent expansion; bonded bullets that retain close to 100% of bullet weight; a smorgasbord of bullet weights and power levels to suit nearly every need (eg: .38 special, .38 special +P, .357 Magnum - 110 grain, 125 grain, 158 grain, 180 grain, etc.).

Glaser's reputation for poor penetration, coupled with their incredible expense, has pretty much made my decision to go with the "newer" design bullets, which have an established track record of performance.

My comfort level dictates that I get something that I am reasonably assured of accomplishing the desired purpose - and in a matter of life-and-death, I find this to be of some importance.

[351 WINCHESTER]

I have limited experience with glasers in .38+p. In some lots the bullets wern't crimped very well. Shot a silver +P in gel. and it failed badly. Save your money.

[Wolfeye]

I load them in my gun before putting on my bedside. I live in an apartment complex and am 100% sure that any non-fragmented ammo would overpenetrate.

It basically turns a handgun into a little shotgun, except that the bullet stays whole until it strikes something. I think it's a compromise in stopping power, but it makes sense to use if you live in an apartment, condo, or boat. Otherwise I wouldn't recommend it.

Other fragmented ammunition that might perform better is made by International Cartridge Corp. If you handload, I think Barnes also makes fragmenting bullets. As far as I know, they will penetrate better than Glasers but have much less chance of overpenetrating than hollowpoints. I haven't tried either yet, as I am still shooting up my supply of Glasers.

[Gunfighter123]

Shot a silver +P in gel. and it failed badly

Anyway you can post some photos of your test ?? Also about how far away to gel block , apx. depth of penetration , barrel lgh. etc.

I have never used the silver Glasers -- I have used the blue Glasers in .357 , 9 mm and .45acp -- I did not get to try any in gel. but they went to about 6" deep in water soaked phone books --- the "spread" of the pellets was almost 10" !!!!

I would love to try some gel. tests -- - did you buy or make your gel. -- any place to buy some on the cheap side ???

[moxie]

The .45 ACP Blue version cycles in my 1911 perfectly and has for over 20 years.

[rbernie]

I find it interesting to note that not a single LE agency of any kind issues or recommends Glasers for its officers (presumably because of their poor penetration characteristics).

[conwict]

if you live in an apartment, condo, or boat.

357 for pirates?

[saltydog452]

If we're lucky, we learn.

Blue Glassers and a PPK have traveled with me from border to border and water to water.

Not the best solution, but it was handier than a M 19.

Better options are available now.

salty

[Tom S.]

Lots of folks are missing major points here!

First off, law enforcement don't use these because they are designed specifically for close quarter defense, as in 15 feet and less. They are not designed for shooting 25 yards (and further). Next, let's talk about penetration. They are designed to fragment quickly and thus do not penetrate far, but before you dismiss them for that, measure five inches on your body and think if you want something to penetrate even that far. Bullets that penetrate 18 inches go through a target and take their energy with them. The Glasser design and logic is to not over penetrate and thus disperse all their energy inside their target. Lastly, even the best expansion of a bullet will typically be double it's diameter while the Glasser shot expands to about 4 inches. This gives it a much better chance of striking a major artery or important organ like the heart.

Having said this, no hand gun bullet is the end all best solution when all factors are added in. For that reason, the suggestions of having a mixed magazine makes a lot of sense.

[ArmedBear]

I have found most of the negitive comments are second hand.

Most assuredly.

So, how many attackers have you shot with Glasers?

[hardluk1]

Tom s ithink out got it. Most people are to hung up on penitration to under stand. Glasser in allmost the entire line has a heavy and light load. Heavy will go through winter coating and dump ALL it energy in the body and will not kill others donw range if syou have a shot through with most leo type loads. Also a different choise could also be the Powerball that will also do much the same with a more solid design bullet. Both have a long track.

[Myles]

I've always liked the concept - guaranteed rapid dump of 100% of the kinetic energy. I understand that limited penetration, that's the point.

I've never used them, however, because I cannot afford to function fire 200-300 rounds, much less practice with the load.

[batmann]

I have some as my 'summer' load for my .44M and have shot 6 at a target 7 yrds just to make sure they fire. If penetration is an issue, they are probably a good choice.

[ArmedBear]

I've always liked the concept - guaranteed rapid dump of 100% of the kinetic energy.

Shoot 'em with skeet load, then. Cheaper than Glasers, and the same basic principle...

Or snake rounds.

[rbernie]

They are not designed for shooting 25 yards (and further). This is simply not a factor; the difference in projectile energy between 7 yards and 25 yards is very small for most handgun chamberings.

A 9mm 147gr HP, assuming a BC of .1 and a muzzle velocity of 900fps, has a velocity of 886ft/sec at ten yards and still has a velocity of 866ft/sec at 25 yards.

Police do not choose rounds based upon longer engagement distances; they choose their carry ammo based upon economy and success testing of the ammo against the FBI protocol (http://greent.com/40Page/general/fbitest.htm).

While the FBI Proitocol tests against barrier penetration may be unique to LE and not HD, tests #1, #2, and #7 are very compatible both with LE and SD/HD needs.

Lastly, even the best expansion of a bullet will typically be double it's diameter while the Glasser shot expands to about 4 inches. This gives it a much better chance of striking a major artery or important organ like the heart.The FBI protocol tests for terminal ballistics establishes 12" as the minimum desired penetration for a reason; because the Miami shootout (and other examples) proved that anything less was inadequate for the real world.

I recommend reading this (http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm).

Virtually nobody stands face-to-face and shoots into each others chest. Gunfights are fluid thing, with moving people and odd entry vectors. Many shots have to penetrate an upraised arm or somesuch before even getting to a torso.

[ArmedBear]

Seriously, the problem is this:

If a round disintegrates on impact with anything (like drywall), it's the equivalent of snake shot at close range, i.e. not so good for self-defense against a determined attacker who is about to kill you.

If it doesn't disintegrate on impact with anything, it's going to go through walls.

OC spray might be a better option, or a Taser, backed up with a gun, loaded with real bullets, just in case.

[hardluk1]

Untill a person has seen glasser saftey slugs shot into some thing they just don't understand. Not rat shot , very controled energy loss. Not sure after ising a test on meat i can think of that could be worse would be a high velocity ballistic tip for f'n up meat.

[ArmedBear]

Snake shot will do that, too.

Still not a good SD round.

[CWL]

It basically turns a handgun into a little shotgun

Simply wrong and outright dangerous belief.

Back to Glasers, if you like them, go ahead and carry them.
The problem with Glasers and other high-expense ammunition is that the majority of people cannot afford to train regularly with them. This puts them in the category of "Magic Bullets" where faith in hardware replaces hard work and regular training.

[ArmedBear]

Quite true. It doesn't turn it into a shotgun.

The load, when it hits the target at a distance, is similar to a shot load AT VERY CLOSE RANGE.

That still doesn't mean I'd trust it for self-defense.

There's no free lunch: either it penetrates enough to work for SD, or it doesn't go through walls. One or the other.

[mljdeckard]

Go ahead and buy 200 of them to test fire for reliability in your gun. THEN decide if you feel like buying any more of them.

[ArmedBear]

Why would I even want to try them, though?

I don't believe they really can work as advertised, physics being what it is.:)

[doc540]

For years I carried, first, Glasers, then MagSafe's (when Joe Zambone built them).

Now I don't carry them.

One simple, common sense, explanation convinced me:

Any obstruction preventing a clear, vital organ shot could cause them to expend their energy and become virtually worthless as a personal defense round.

I no longer take that chance.

[RyanM]

This should be required reading for anyone who wants to use prefragmented ammo.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number3/article432.htm

Also this. http://www.brassfetcher.com/Brassfetcher_evaluates_9mm_Glaser_Safety_Slug.pdf

If you still choose to carry it, go ahead. It's a free country. But you absolutely need to know the limitations of the ammunition.

Prefragmented ammunition absolutely will not penetrate enough to rapidly incapacitate someone unless you shoot them in the head or neck, or dead center in the chest from straight on, with no obstructions.

Prefragmented ammo also will quite often not break up if they hit a wall, and will lose enough velocity in the wall that they will penetrate like a solid if they hit someone on the other side. Note that a Glaser safety slug penetrated 11.7" after going through a wall, meaning that it would actually be more likely to kill someone if it hit them at a strange angle or passed through a limb first (which is quite likely, if the round hits an innocent bystander or family member).

If for some reason you anticipate being able to make a perfectly placed, ideal shot, prefragmented ammo absolutely will make a bigger hole than JHPs. But only for the first 2-3" of penetration, which is why the shot must be literally perfect. Those first 2-3" must be vital tissue, because damage beyond that is minimal. If the bullet passes through an arm, or you shoot an especially muscular or fat person, or if a shot must be taken which hits someone at an oblique angle, all of the bullet's wounding potential may very well be wasted on nonvital tissue.

[orionengnr]

Untill a person has seen glasser saftey slugs shot into some thing they just don't understand.

Wrong again.

Most of us have read the hype, seen the staged pics of best-case scenarios, and have also read and seen what happens in the real world...and that's why we don't carry MagSafes or Glasers.

Read a few of the links in the above posts, and see if you "understand".

[Ron James]

Many of the statements I've seen on the above post are pure bull hockey, while many of the others are throughtful and well reasoned. Will not pentrate a dry wall, Horse hockey, no more effective than a shotshell, pure horse hockey. Like a mini shotgun, horse hockey. will not pentrate clothing, horse hockey and so on and so on. There are no magic bullets and today there are a great deal more effective loads than 20 yrs ago. But don't pull a Black Talon and dish something you know nothing about. And to the poster who asked how many bad guys have I've shot with Glassers or Mag safes I would guess as many as you have. My background includes 42 years as a life member of NRA. 26 years miltary and combat in two countries and an Island, Law Enforedment. Army Pistol Team and so on and so on. I'm no expert but I have been around the block, Have you?:)

[Dan Crocker]

I'm straight up loving some of the spelling on this thread...especially since they have a handy-dandy tool here that will fix such problems for you.

[ArmedBear]

And to the poster who asked how many bad guys have I've shot with Glassers or Mag safes I would guess as many as you have.

Never said I did.

I think you know my point, unless your many years and variety of experiences have made you unable to comprehend English.

...and my further point was clear, as well: either it won't penetrate drywall and it won't penetrate clothing, or it will penetrate clothing but it will also penetrate drywall. And either they act essentially like slugs, or they act like snake shot at close range -- fragmenting and spreading immediately on impact. There's no free lunch in Newtonian Physics.

As an educated person with some knowledge of various sciences including physiology, I can't see a single reason to trade these expensive "Safety slugs" which are NEITHER safe, NOR slugs, for good 230 grain JHPs.

Maybe you can.

But you haven't shot anyone with them, either.

I thank you for your service and I certainly admire the shooting ability of anyone who has shot competitively for the military, particularly since I was shooting a match with some the other day and they can shoot! This has very, very little relevance to the subject at hand, though.

[ArmedBear]

BTW I am genuinely interested in any personal experience that anyone has had, or that has been documented somewhere credible, shooting an attacker -- human or animal -- with Glasers or equivalent.

Anyone?

[bigfatdave]

What, nobody hunts with Glasers?
I thought a 9x29 Glaser would drop an attacker, why is everyone schlepping heavy rifles/shotguns through the woods when they could just pack a mousegun and take deer with these magic bullets?

To be serious, Glaser does make .44magnum and 30-06 ... why not hunt with them?

[LaBulldog]

Glaser Safety Slug does exactly what it was designed to do. It will loose significant amount of energy when it hits something, thus keeping life threatening ricocheting and over penetration to a minimum, IN MOST CASES.

It was designed to do maximum internal damage to a human target without over penetration thus endangering anyone behind the intended target. It will not penetrate a solid door. It will probably not penetrate a car door or vehicle glass. It is designed for face to face encounter with a life threatening bad guy. In the right circumstances, it is designed to kill, or gravely wound. It does have its limitations.

If anyone finds it lacking when they use it, then they are using the wrong ammunition for the purpose, i.e. wrong tool for the job.

[CapnMac]

in any personal experience that anyone has had, or that has been documented somewhere credible, shooting an attacker -- human or animal -- with Glasers or equivalent.

Srill looking in my stacks of handouts, pass-alongs and the like--I know there was a study on "failures" with glazers and the like. Low-quality-down clothing and defensive postures, both of which increase penetration distance being the mechanism. But, that's just hearsay until I find the article (found the London Metro Bikini Alert info--sheesh, organization, it's a thing).

[rbernie]

Glaser Safety Slug does exactly what it was designed to do.Do you have empirical data to provide on the Glaser's terminal performance?