How much does it cost to open an indoor Shooting


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gym
March 30, 2009, 01:25 PM
Is this feasible anymore to get into the "range" business. I owned a Gym, that was pretty large, 40,000 sq ft. 20 in and 20 out. So I am somewhat aware of what the costs of renting such a space in general can run. But I can only judge as 2000-05 prices were. How big a space would you need, and could it make enough money to stay in business, or do you need a gun store attached in order to stay in business? Just off the top of my head, it would seem to be a costly proposition. How difficult is it, code wise in say Indian River , Florida, I am in South Fl, and aside from a few small gun shop/ranges, I am not aware of any larger size like "shooters" on Sample rd. used to be. I assume the costs are just too high, although more folks seem to be getting into shooting. South Florida is just too expensive even if you own the property, 20 thousand under air is around 20 grand a month. Electric another 4 thousand, You would need 25 thousand a month if you could even get insurance and whatever else you needed. How much will a person pay to shoot? In a new facility with all the bells and whistles. Maybe a 8000-10,000 sq ft, how long and wide are the stations, and what's the turnover rate. It is probably like the gym business, more trouble than it's worth, but is it even possible?If you got 100 people per day, and they paid ten bucks to shoot, thirty grand per month would just about cover all your bills and make you a living, but is that even theoretically possible, say your open 12 hours, that's 8-10 shooters per hour?

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Hungry Seagull
March 30, 2009, 01:47 PM
Concrete starts at about 60 dollars a square yard.

It covers about 3 feet this way, three feet that way 4 inches deep. You want a slab twice that deep or better and 100 yards long times however many yards wide of the range itself.

Getting expensive are we?

Take into account damage to lights, fixtures, wiremesh, target equiptment, electrical work, holes to patch, nuts to throw out, maybe a few prosecutions etc.

Are we having fun yet?

Oh, utilities, payroll, insurance, waivers (Basically anyone shooting at your range has no way to sue you for medical losses, damage etc and THEY pay for the damage etc...)

And lead. Copper. Brass. Smoke, ventilations, filters etc etc etc.

I dont know about the numbers of people per day. I think Friday and Saturday you will be packed to the max.

Weekday mornings, the lone shooter might visit for a half hour and.... 8 bucks in range time.

Whatcha gonna do now that you made 8 bux and it's not lunch hour yet?

cbrgator
March 30, 2009, 01:54 PM
Hungry, it would only be 20-25 yards long. There is no way in South Florida anybody is going to build a new 100yd indoor. No way.

Clarence
March 30, 2009, 01:55 PM
First off let me state for the record - "I do not currently own, and have never in the past owned an indoor shooting range".

However, I know a guy who does.

10 shooting lanes, with an average of 500 shooters a week during the summer and 1200-1500 shooters a week during the winter. On average the shooters will spend a little over $10 apiece unless they purchase ammunition. So let's say the cash flow is $5000/week during the summer and $13000/week during the winter for an average of around $9000/week. On top of that you have sales of lead and brass. If you are willing to sort the brass you can get some pretty decent prices for some of it, or you can sell it for scrap by the ton. Check your local scrap merchant to see what it would sell for.

Duke of Doubt
March 30, 2009, 02:03 PM
Local regulatory hurdles vary considerably from one jurisdiction to the next.

I lived in suburban Maryland (Montgomery County) for five years, all during which a local gun shop struggled to build an indoor shooting range. The whole process took about a decade. Even keeping the tiny little gun store open meantime was a major effort. The government-required security was unbelievable. Heavy bars on the windows, all guns in safes at closing, alarm systems, multimillion dollar insurance, et cetera -- all for a small storefront shop in a minimall with maybe fifty to a hundred guns in it at any one time, in an incredibly wealthy, generally crime-free area. The planned indoor shooting range was huge, but I never got to use it. It finally opened years after I moved away. I still can't believe they finally got all their permits.

Hikingman
March 30, 2009, 02:10 PM
Will the liab. insurance be underwritten by Lloyd's of London, or what company? Determining the estimated cost of liability insurance is an early must do...

DHJenkins
March 30, 2009, 02:24 PM
Concrete starts at about 60 dollars a square yard.

It covers about 3 feet this way, three feet that way 4 inches deep. You want a slab twice that deep or better and 100 yards long times however many yards wide of the range itself.

Getting expensive are we?


Actually, concrete is about $60 per cubic yard. That's 27 cubic feet, or about 81 square feet of a 4" thick slab. The price goes up or down according to the mix design & required additives.

Also, indoor air will have to be filtered to deal with airborne hazards.

chuckusaret
March 30, 2009, 02:42 PM
3,000 PSI concrete in Florida is about $100 per cubic yard. In Palm Beach County, Fl. you are not allowed to use your own ammo at the indoor ranges and must purchase range ammo. Range fees average $10 and ammo averages about $20 for 40 rounds of 40 cal. as of last month.

smilin-buddha
March 30, 2009, 04:10 PM
I have run into that same problem> In regards to ammo. I found a place down on Copans that lets you bring ammo in. Working on a reloading set up as we speak.

Duke of Doubt
March 30, 2009, 04:17 PM
Ah; I almost forgot about the whole "must buy their ammo" thing. That was Maryland state law. That's why I didn't shoot in Maryland. First of all, no range I've ever seen offers boxes of 6.5 Carcano for sale, and if they are the only range in the tri-county area they will certainly know it, and price their ammo accordingly. Man, I almost forgot how angry I was at Maryland for this. You also couldn't do private sales in Maryland, so the gun stores (both of them) would offer 1/4 to 1/2 of the value for your gun if you wanted to sell. After all, they were the only possible buyers. That's why I never sold a gun in Maryland.

Cannonball888
March 30, 2009, 04:19 PM
You probably don't want to shovel all that lead out of the trap yourself and clean the walls of residue. So add in the cost of a professional commpany to do it on a regular basis, and they aren't cheap because they are damn few.

Owen
March 30, 2009, 04:25 PM
backstops + ventilation = $25k/lane, last I checked/

gym
March 30, 2009, 04:41 PM
Smilin you talking about Revere?, Have shot there , hard to breathe after a few minutes if the lanes are busy. Seagull I do know what things cost, I had a gym that I built from scratch, with a million dollars worth of equiptment, It got very expensive right around 50 thousand per month, and that was on 2002 dollars, the building was purchased last year to the guy who bought it three owners later for three times what they wanted for it back pre 2000. I was asking if it could be a worthwile enterprise in this day and age. s far as building costs go, they were getting around three hundred per sq ft, at the peak, now around $130 to 100, depending how much the guy is hurting, for residential, commercial is normally less.It's the risk reward portion that I question, as Clarence pointed out, there is money to be made with enough churn, and also the "EFT" part with yearly memberships is how health clubs stay in business. I remember everyone used to have a yearlly membership 15 or so yrs back, as it was supposed to save you money, which is how gyms stay open. it seems very similar to the gym/health club model. without the million dollars in leases. I don't know what the liability or if a surity bond is necessary, but it may be feasable to open a 10-15 lane facility with a gun shop that you farmed out, thus offsetting some rent, and eliminating the headache of running a gun store. It merits some more research.

hso
March 30, 2009, 05:37 PM
You'll have to own instead of rent.

You'll need to be in an area that everyone doesn't just go out to the pit/hillside to shoot, but has enough interest in shooting to pay for rage time.

You'll need an extensive air handling/cleaning system for the range.

If you have a range you should couple it with a gun shop so the two draw customers for each other. You should also add a classroom for carry permit and skills training since you have a range.

gym
March 30, 2009, 05:46 PM
all good points

Acera
March 30, 2009, 05:54 PM
Doesn't the NRA help people out with this? I remember somewhere reading that. You might want to contact them.

Bailey Guns
March 30, 2009, 07:55 PM
A partner and I looked into this last year. He went to the NRA Range Seminar in Chicago. He did a business plan based on what he learned and we did a lot of research on land, building type/construction, ventilation systems, bullet trap systems, etc...

Bottom line for a 10-lane indoor range here in CO...$1,000,000 minimum.

Jim K
March 30, 2009, 08:33 PM
Duke of Doubt is correct in that the problem in most areas is going to be getting approval; the actual building and cost are less important.

The Brady bunch will bribe the local press and TV to tell everyone you are building a training facility for terrorists and criminals and you will be lucky to stay out of prison.

Jim

Grey_Mana
March 30, 2009, 09:04 PM
Ah; I almost forgot about the whole "must buy their ammo" thing. That was Maryland state law. I don't know about then, but that isn't Maryland law now. All the ranges I know that require it claim it is required, but it isn't anywhere in the state code.

My two cents: I heard about a guy who built his range just outside the city limits, because he didn't want to have to comply with the unfair zoning, employee health & exposure rules, etc. He decided he could live without city water/sewer/trash and without a school system. The city decided to annex him. I believe the official reason he was closed down was failure to install a sprinkler system connected to the city water supply.

Also, why would you buy new construction? Check foreclosures; if you are flexible you might get a steal.

wyocarp
March 30, 2009, 10:05 PM
You'll have to own instead of rent.

That isn't true. There is a new range in Loveland, Colorado that rents a space right next to a church in a business park.

Duke of Doubt
March 30, 2009, 10:14 PM
wyocarp: "There is a new range in Loveland, Colorado that rents a space right next to a church in a business park."

Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition.

My own church is right on the way to the gun range. For years my daughter and I would go to church, then proceed on down the road to the range, where by that time the crowds were thinning out at the trap shack.

chuckusaret
March 30, 2009, 11:19 PM
The ammo requirement is a Palm Beach county code. There is also a code that disallows outdoor ranges in most of the county. Several friends are attempting to open an indoor range but are running into all kinds of obstacles. Banks are reluctant to loan the necessary funding which is estimated to be in excess of $1M

gym
March 30, 2009, 11:45 PM
Well I love research, and need something to do as it looks like I may have a buyer for my home in Broward, Heading up to Vero, will see what's what when I get there. I figure 2-3 months.

Kenneth Lew
March 31, 2009, 03:42 AM
You'll have to own instead of rent.
That isn't true. There is a new range in Loveland, Colorado that rents a space right next to a church in a business park.

I would stay away from leasing a building with a gun range. Too much capital improvements that stays with the building that can be lost to the leasor.

Kenneth Lew
March 31, 2009, 03:49 AM
Do realize that you are not only making money on the range fees, but also on ammunition sales, gun sales, target sales (very high margins), concealed handgun classes (very high margins), etc. All of that does add up.

Too many variables in prices due to geographical differences in regulations and building costs. One way to get an estimate (always exceeds that) is to talk to some of the indoor backstop manufacturers on how much is need to open a gun range. What are the costs.

http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/sourcebook.asp

http://www.rangeinfo.org/

hso
March 31, 2009, 11:53 AM
I don't see how the owner would be foolish enough to allow someone else to put a range on their property when they can be left liable for all cleanup if the range folds up and hasn't been run properly.

BTW, instead of paying to have someone come in and remove the lead you can contract with a scrap dealer to have them come in and do it. Depending upon scrap prices they may end up paying you for the material instead of just trading scrap for service. Regardless, if your scrap is purchased by a dealer you no longer have a "waste" that you have to dispose of.

Owen
March 31, 2009, 12:21 PM
hso, the problem iwht that is most of the scrap dealers aren't equipped to handle the fine particulates and flamables mixed in. The lead isn't a problem, its a valuable commodity.

The big problem is the unburned powder mixed with lead dust that needs to cleaned off the range daily.

Hungry Seagull
March 31, 2009, 12:38 PM
I stand to learn much from the guidance and corrective information on this wonderful thread.

Even a 25 yard pistol range and concealed classes etc would be outstanding.

How about this idea?

I think we are entering a period of commerical real estate foreclosures and church failures.

Buying a property with sufficient slab size, walls, doors and roof already in place and then building just the "Guts" of the range making whatever modifications or additions internally as required by code will work really well wont it not?

I think several churches in my state have square footages something like 5000-10000 plus and the main worship area are usually large enough to encapsule a 25 yard range easily.

Just a thought. Please, dont be offended. Im thinking strictly business here. The buildings, utitlies, parking lots, water etc etc etc will already be in place when a person buys a failed church in foreclosure and turns it into a range.

hso
March 31, 2009, 01:06 PM
The big problem is the unburned powder mixed with lead dust that needs to cleaned off the range daily.

None of the three local indoor ranges clean the entire range daily. They all clean the down range area and traps monthly. None of them have had a range fire associated with paper/powder residue and I can't see that as a reasonable potential unless the range is a total mess.

Ranges that sell their scrap lead after it's been cleared from the traps can offer to cut a deal with the scrap dealer to handle the whole job as long as they make them aware of the issues related to the powder. The scrap dealer is then obligated to deal with the hazard to their employees.

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