[WAGCEVP]

Too Bad this idiot father did not teach his daughter NOT to be stupid!
I wander if her friends had wanted her to jump off a bridge, would she have followed? Would the father want to ban bridges???????



This tragedy could have been averted with a little gun safety training
during this young lady's formative years. Unfortunately many people
attempt to protect their children by keeping them ignorant. I don't
care what the problem is it will not be solved through ignorance.
Education is the only way to prevent tragedies like these. If Kelly
Logan would channel some of his grief into promoting meaningful gun
safety classes for children he might help to prevent others from making
the same mistake his daughter made.



========================



:cuss: :banghead: :fire: :confused: :what: :barf:



A victim's father cries - and acts
(Wed, Oct/08/2003)

Grief is a powerful motivator.

Grief is pushing a Willingboro father to turn his estimable talents to creating
a foundation devoted to snuffing out gun violence, and to lobbying his former colleagues
in the Willingboro Police Department to set up a weapons-surrender program.

Kelly Logan's daughter, Latrece, lost her life Friday. Authorities say a game of
Russian roulette went terribly wrong, and the popular 16-year-old died in the parking
lot of a neighborhood shopping center.

An 18-year-old classmate, Maurice Howard of Willing-boro, faces charges of aggravated
manslaughter in the tragedy.

Once more, a bullet has ripped through the fabric of a community. But if Kelly Logan
has his way, that will happen less and less.

A Willingboro High School football star of years gone by and a former police officer,
Trece's dad wants to raise awareness of the danger that ensues when teenagers and
guns intersect.

There is no greater hell than the death of a child. Now a father who's been there
is doing something positive. We hope it helps bring him and his family peace of
mind. And we pray Trece's Foundation will knock some sense into adults who put guns
into hands too immature to carry them.

Article's URL:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/143-10082003-174063.html

[ShaiVong]

HAW HA HA HA HA!

Authorities say a game of Russian roulette went terribly wrong, and the popular 16-year-old died in the parking lot of a neighborhood shopping center.

How does RUSSIAN ROULETTE go terribly RIGHT!? AHHH! :banghead: :cuss:

[Mark Tyson]

Their own stupidity is to blame for this tragedy! Do teens involved in car accidents prompt people to prevent teens from driving until they're 21 or teach kids responsible driving?

Arrrrggh!

[P95Carry]

Oh my ...... more ..... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :rolleyes:

[Mastrogiacomo]

I feel for any child lost through ignorance especially when it's the adult's responsiability to secure the gun. This isn't such a case -- it's either plain stupidity or suicide. The fact that she attempted to take her life with a gun should hardly be the fault of gun owners everywhere. I'm curious -- how in God's name does her Dad think this game goes again....:scrutiny:

[Standing Wolf]

Unfortunately many people attempt to protect their children by keeping them ignorant.

If ignorance is bliss, there must be an awful lot of extremely happy people. I have no idea how anyone could reach the age of sixteen and believe Russian roulette is anything but highly risky and fathomlessly stupid—except, of course, for the fact that it's on the idiot box.

[TallPine]

adults who put guns into hands too immature to carry them.

It is my observation that safely operating a motor vehicle requires far more maturity and skill than safely handling a firearm.

Both skills must be taught.

Anyone old enough to drive is old enough to handle guns.


So what would be the hue and cry if some teenager died playing "chicken" in a car ??? That would be the equivalent of Russian roulette.

[Ryder]

should hardly be the fault of gun owners everywhere

You're absolutely right, it's sure not my fault or your fault BUT assuming this was not her gun it is the individual gun owner's responsibility to maintain control of their weapon. Fault does lie there.

[Carlos]

Seems like charging her friend with aggravated manslaughter is a bit out of line too. Like, she pulled the trigger, right?

[Old Fuff]

It is implied that the 18-year-old "classmate" provided the gun. If so, where did he get it? I know .... it wasn't the kid that did it, it was the gun. Guns are always doing these things. Daddy know best, he used to be a cop. So he'll go after "the gun," because people are never responsible.

[Standing Wolf]

Actually, now that I've had time to reconsider this one, I'd have to say the father has no one and nothing to blame but himself: he raised a sixteen-year-old child who was completely ignorant of firearms, and instilled in her no respect for human life. I'm sure the mother played a part, too, but I believe failing to teach children about firearms is like failing to teach them about fire extinguishers, first aid kits, lawn mowers, libraries, savings accounts, shoe shine kits, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera: the fundamental elements of modern life.

[litman252]

This story reminds me of my Fathers friend, last weekend he was showing his kids how to shoot for the first time. He handed them a 12 guage, loaded and told them to shoot the target. Oldest one is 12, never a word about saftey, none.
I left, my life was not worth thears.
This father needed to give some of that LEO training to his daughter, loaded gun= Don't touch it. His fault.
Tony

[matis]

quote from article:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Authorities say a game of Russian roulette went terribly wrong, and the popular 16-year-old died in the parking lot of a neighborhood shopping center.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And ShaiVong said:
How does RUSSIAN ROULETTE go terribly RIGHT!? AHHH!
______________________________________________________


Both wrong, ShaiVong.

The game went right, but she lost. That's how the game works, no?



Once we lived in a free country where the consequences of the acts of idiots affected only themselves and their own people.


Now we all suffer every time some idot screws up.


Why doesn't the father try to outlaw RUSSIANS and gambling?


Why doesn't he try to outlaw irresponsible fathers who don't properly teach their children?



matis

[C.R.Sam]

"Less government, more individual responsibility"....Welch.

A shame that is rapidly becoming but a dim memory.

Sam

[DrPsycho]

I'm sorry, I'm familiar with American roulette (with two zeros on the wheel) and European roulette (with a single zero) but what's with Russian roulette?


(yes yes, I know it has nothing to do with roulette - my taste in jokes is just as bad as any person wishing to participate in the "game")

[Dionysusigma]

Trece's dad wants to raise awareness of the danger that ensues when teenagers and guns intersect.
Last I checked, age is different than maturity. My dad was supporting his family at the age of 12, and I've seen 40-y-o men who'd rather just drink all day and live off welfare.

But at 19, the worst things in danger when I "intersect" a gun are: A) The target, B) the berm, and C) my wallet of mysteriously emptying itself and more ammo appearing... :confused: :rolleyes: :D

[Nightfall]

Grief is pushing a Willingboro father to turn his estimable talents to creating a foundation devoted to snuffing out gun violence, and to lobbying his former colleagues in the Willingboro Police Department to set up a weapons-surrender program.
Maybe it's guilt, not grief. If he had taken the time to fully instill in his daughter a respect of firearms and the damage they can be used to create, she could be alive right now. Instead, we have yet another case of responsibilty being shirked; from a parent to an object.

[OF]

it is the individual gun owner's responsibility to maintain control of their weapon. Fault does lie there.If the "victim" was 3 years old, maybe you'd have a point. But she was 16. It's not the gun owners fault.
Not even a little bit. At 16 you are responsible for your own actions. She took the gun, she shot herself. Nobody's fault but hers. We can go around blaming everyone in order to try to make ourselves feeeeeel better, but at 16, you're thinking straight or you're a statistic.

- Gabe

[Ivanimal]

Darwinism at its finest.

[Don Gwinn]

Not sure why everyone's so convinced she was ignorant. Teenagers commit suicide an awful lot. It's not so farfetched that she wanted to play Russian roulette even though she knew exactly what it was.

[Waitone]

Why would a 16 year old want to play a games designed to end in death?

Seems to me the child had more problems than just ignorance of firearms.

Sorta makes me wonder if dad and his estimatable talents weren't misdirected. Maybe he should have been more of a father.

Yes it was stupid to do what she did but her problems preceeded the act by years.

Did any report specify the style of handgun used? I would like to see how deep stupid (or ignorance) went.

[Brian Dale]

It sounds like the incident has nothing to do with Mr. Logan's failure to teach a 16-year old safe gunhandling. It has everything to do with his having raised a daughter who'd commit suicide. Guns and gunowners are convenient objects of his attempt (applauded here in the Burlington County Times op-ed page) to redirect the blame. He's a victim? No. His daughter was the victim of his enduring failure to teach her the value of her own life. Requiescat In Pace, poor girl.

[greyhound]

If he had taken the time to fully instill in his daughter a respect of firearms

Though I agree 100%, the problem is we are now finding the first generation of PARENTS with no exposure to firearms other than movies and TV.

Its probably nowhere on their their radar that their child could be exposed to firearms, since they never were.

May never have occured to them to teach what to do if you come across a gun. May have even avoided it, in fear of creating a "gun nut" by even bringing up the topic.

However, any parent in that situation that hears about this story and doesn't immediately take steps to remedy this, is an idiot, IMHO.

[Rogelio]

Ok, let me see... a 16 year old plays russian roulette...

I don not mean any disrespect to the family or the girl, but are they sure that the girl was no on drugs or intoxicated?

I ask because my dad (I know I refer a lot to him, but he has lived longer than I have and he has seen more things) has this friend (Roberto del Aguila) who died when he has 22 playing russian roulette with an old taurus .38spl The kid was on cocaine when he played. Cocaine makes you feel invincible and inmortal (and realy powerfull , by the way), so maybe the girl did not realize what she was doing??

Just an opinion, and I apologize if any of the girl's relatives took any offense.

[MagKnightX]

I'm sorry, I'm familiar with American roulette (with two zeros on the wheel) and European roulette (with a single zero) but what's with Russian roulette?

It's played with five zeroes and one 44 in the wheel...

Yes, I know you were joking.

On topic, she probably was playing Russian Roulette because she a. was a total idiot AND b. was suicidal. To quote the Simpsons, depressing teenagers is like shooting fish in a barrel. She just found a convenient way of dosing on permanent Prozac, so to speak.

[Quartus]

quote:Grief is pushing a Willingboro father

Maybe it's guilt, not grief


Bingo.

[Edward429451]

Life is harsh, and plays for keeps.

Teach your children well..

There's no safety in ignorance.

:uhoh:

[Crimper-D]

It appears to an inherited trait.... Briefly!:cuss: :banghead: :rolleyes:

[Hypnogator]

We should reference this thread every time some 19-yr old rants about why (s)he can't get a CCW license. Or buy a drink. Eighteen yr olds may have the intellectual maturity to vote intelligently, but by and large, teenagers don't have the emotional maturity to responsibly drink or carry concealed weapons. True, I know some 17-yr olds that I'd never worry about carrying a loaded handgun, and I know some 30-yr olds that I wouldn't trust to do either, but you've got to draw the line someplace. For years and years, 21 was the magic age of adulthood. It's as good a number as any, and better than most.

{Stepping down off of soapbox.}

[Balog]

Eighteen yr olds may have the intellectual maturity to vote intelligently, but by and large, teenagers don't have the emotional maturity to responsibly drink or carry concealed weapons.

So how do you feel about enlisting, owning long guns, and getting married? I'm twenty, I'm enlisted in the USMC, married, and I have a twelve gauge to defend myself and my wife. All legally. I can't be trusted to carry a concealed handgun, but I could own a .50 BMG or an M1A without a problem? What about driving? In many ways more difficult to do safely than shooting.

And why do we need artificial, randomly chosen age limits? The drinking age in Ireland is 16 IIRC. I'm always amazed when someone who complains that the government would prohibit them from carrying because they might do something bad turns around and says that we should ban people of a certain age from carrying because they might use it irresponsibly. Why don't we prohibit and punish behaviour?

You say people under a certain random age are more likely to be irresponsible, and thus should be prohibited from exercising the fundamental right of self-defence. Statistically speaking, black men who live in inner-city areas are more likely to use guns criminally. Shall we prohibit them from owning guns?

The only result of artificial age limits is telling young people that they aren't responsible for their own action until they reach a certain age. Oddly enough, they sometimes believe this.

[BluesBear]

Every, and I mean EVERY, (and I rarely use absolutes) adult should read Massad Ayoob's book "How To Gunproof Your Children".

Think what you will about Mas, THIS book should be read by EVERY adult. As it turns out what this books teaches is almost exactly what my father taught me.

As I recall the retail price of the book is a whopping $2.95.

Did I mention EVERY adult should read it?

I do realize that if this happened there would be a lot more children in the world. But that's OK, the truely stupid ones will always find another way to clorinate the shallow end of the gene pool.