25-06...


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/Artemis\
April 2, 2009, 10:44 PM
So judging on the ballistics info I read, it seems to have a much better muzzle velocity-muzzle energy ratio than 5.56x45 (obviously...) and 7.62x51. My question is would this round perform better at long range than most commercial rounds? Anyone had any experience firing this cartridge?

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Zak Smith
April 2, 2009, 11:50 PM
Sure. The downfall of the .25 caliber for long-range use is that there are basically no high BC bullets at this time. The best you can get is about 0.40 - 0.48.

Here is a comparison of the .25-06 vs. some other long-range rounds:

_Bullet_ _BC_ _MV_ 0 200 400 600 800 1000 | YARDS
338LM 250SCNR 0.675 2950 > 0.00 1.67 6.99 16.47 30.72 50.49 | wind (inches)
7RM 180 VLD 0.684 2950 > 0.00 1.65 6.89 16.22 30.24 49.65 | wind (inches)
7RM 168gr VLD 0.648 3100 > 0.00 1.62 6.79 16.03 29.95 49.29 | wind (inches)
300WM 210VLD 0.640 2900 > 0.00 1.81 7.59 17.94 33.59 55.42 | wind (inches)
6.5-06 140 0.628 3000 > 0.00 1.76 7.38 17.45 32.69 53.95 | wind (inches)
260 140gr VLD 0.620 2850 > 0.00 1.92 8.06 19.09 35.83 59.27 | wind (inches)
308 155 Scenar 0.508 2910 > 0.00 2.30 9.76 23.41 44.55 74.74 | wind (inches)
308 175 SMK 0.496 2700 > 0.00 2.62 11.18 26.93 51.44 86.25 | wind (inches)
308 FGMM 175 0.496 2650 > 0.00 2.69 11.49 27.68 52.89 88.59 | wind (inches)
.25-06 0.480 3200 > 0.00 2.13 9.06 21.77 41.49 69.83 | wind (inches)

338LM 250SCNR 0.675 2950 > -0.00 0.33 1.53 3.00 4.73 6.73 | drop (mil)
7RM 180 VLD 0.684 2950 > -0.00 0.33 1.52 2.99 4.70 6.69 | drop (mil)
7RM 168gr VLD 0.648 3100 > -0.00 0.27 1.35 2.69 4.27 6.10 | drop (mil)
300WM 210VLD 0.640 2900 > -0.00 0.36 1.62 3.18 5.02 7.17 | drop (mil)
6.5-06 140 0.628 3000 > -0.00 0.31 1.48 2.94 4.67 6.69 | drop (mil)
260 140gr VLD 0.620 2850 > -0.00 0.38 1.70 3.35 5.29 7.59 | drop (mil)
308 155 Scenar 0.508 2910 > -0.00 0.37 1.70 3.40 5.51 8.10 | drop (mil)
308 175 SMK 0.496 2700 > -0.00 0.48 2.07 4.11 6.66 9.82 | drop (mil)
308 FGMM 175 0.496 2650 > -0.00 0.51 2.17 4.30 6.95 10.26 | drop (mil)
.25-06 0.480 3200 > -0.00 0.26 1.34 2.76 4.51 6.69 | drop (mil)

338LM 250SCNR 0.675 2950 > 2950 2693 2450 2221 2005 1802 | velocity (fps)
7RM 180 VLD 0.684 2950 > 2950 2696 2456 2230 2016 1815 | velocity (fps)
7RM 168gr VLD 0.648 3100 > 3100 2825 2565 2319 2089 1872 | velocity (fps)
300WM 210VLD 0.640 2900 > 2900 2632 2380 2143 1920 1713 | velocity (fps)
6.5-06 140 0.628 3000 > 3000 2722 2459 2213 1982 1766 | velocity (fps)
260 140gr VLD 0.620 2850 > 2850 2577 2320 2079 1854 1645 | velocity (fps)
308 155 Scenar 0.508 2910 > 2910 2575 2263 1976 1712 1478 | velocity (fps)
308 175 SMK 0.496 2700 > 2700 2372 2069 1791 1541 1329 | velocity (fps)
308 FGMM 175 0.496 2650 > 2650 2326 2027 1752 1507 1301 | velocity (fps)
.25-06 0.480 3200 > 3200 2825 2477 2156 1862 1595 | velocity (fps)


The 6.5-06 is a better choice because you get those sleek, high-BC 6.5mm bullets.

For medium range and hunting, .25-06 is a great caliber.

Zak Smith
April 2, 2009, 11:51 PM
I moved this over to the Rifle forum

dakotasin
April 3, 2009, 12:21 AM
perform better at long range for what?

i have a lot of time behind my 25-06, but do not fancy it a long range moose gun, and think there are better choices for paper...

jbech123
April 3, 2009, 12:21 PM
Zakk,
I could be reading it wrong, and I do understand the lack of high BC bullets available, but your chart seems to actually make a case for the 25-06. It doesn't buck the wind quite as well, but the 1000 yard drop is second only to the 7rm 168gr. and actually better than the 300wm and 338lm. With significantly less recoil than either, it seems like for paper punching it would actually be one of the best in your group. What am I missing?

Zak Smith
April 3, 2009, 12:31 PM
jbechh1233,

I always put the wind chart first because it's the most important to long-range shooting. 90% of long-range misses are due to windage error from unknown conditions or a wrong estimation. Beyond the point-blank range of the cartridge (ie, 250-300 yards), small differences in "how flat" the trajectory is don't make much difference: from the chart I'd clump everything together other than the .308's (and even then only the 175's are pretty bad).

But look at the competing cartridges: for the same basic case (.30-06 case), the 6.5-06 has 16" less wind @ 1000 and will have a longer absolute range due to retained velocity, and the .260 Rem beats it by 10 inches in a shorter case (.308 case) and probably 15-20 grains less powder.

jbech123
April 3, 2009, 12:47 PM
Got it. Knew there was a good reason, otherwise everyone would be using it for long range comp.!

GooseGestapo
April 3, 2009, 05:20 PM
RE: lack of ballistic coefficient, long range bullets....

I beg to differ. Berger offers an excellent 115gr VLD bullet for the .257. At 2,900fps from my .257Roberts, it's an excellent "long range rifle". Has a ballistic Coefficiency of .550.

Because of the unpredicitability of winds in hunting conditions, the small difference in BC is insignificant. Real world shooting in hunting conditions is limited to about 300yds. Yeah, I know your Brothers uncle-in-laws, best buddies nephew shot an Elk at 800yds with a .300RUM, but, I got one of those too, and I wouldn't shoot at an elk 1yd further than I would either my .257Roberts (100fps slower than the .25/06.... maybe, or my .257WbyMag which is 300fps faster than the .25/06).

Re: Long Range moose, from where I've seen Moose, long range is 100yds.... I read recently of an Alaska guide that uses the .25/06 with 120gr Nosler Partitions to put down Moose wounded by "clients", and has taken two Grizzly's with it...... I have no first hand knowledge of this but it dosen't suprise me either. My nephew killed his one and only moose with a .243 and 105gr Speers, at a "long range" of 75feet.......

In match shooting under windy conditions, yes, the 6.5's hold an advantage. In actual field shooting however, the difference is undetectable..... And for that matter, I can't really tell a significant difference between the .25/06 and the .300RUM except for the blood that drips from my forehead after shooting the .300RUM from a "hunting" position........
Both make a "bloody mess" of a deer......

10" at 1000yds, is about the width of the reticle of my scope at 4x... or 1moa.....some difference in a 1moa accurate rifle!

Zak Smith
April 3, 2009, 05:28 PM
I beg to differ. Berger offers an excellent 115gr VLD bullet for the .257 ... Has a ballistic Coefficiency of .550.
Not according to Berger it doesn't:

http://www.bergerbullets.com/Products/Target Bullets.html
25 cal 115 Grain Match Target VLD 0.257 115 0.479 10 25413

Real world shooting in hunting conditions is limited to about 300yds.
300 yards isn't "long range", which was the question the OP asked. I did say, For medium range and hunting, .25-06 is a great caliber. What is a "realistic" range for hunting depends a lot on the shooter.

In actual field shooting however, the difference is undetectable..
As far as field shooting goes, competitors at matches like the steel safari (http://demigodllc.com/articles/colorado-multigun-steel-safari-2008) choose the best calibers for the job, and you can see the patterns in the results.

jacob.elliott
April 3, 2009, 06:06 PM
i love my 25-06. as far as taking down larger animals (post #*), years ago my uncle was a guide in colorado. he has taken everything from caribou, elk, to bighorn with his 243. and the 25-06 will take down anything the 243 will

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