[Mike Irwin]

From the Seattle P-I

"Two 12-year-old Auburn boys were charged yesterday with seven counts of third-degree assault for allegedly shooting BBs into a crowded day care playground Monday.

Seven children were struck by BBs, including a 14-year-old boy who was targeted simply because he was in a wheelchair, according to court documents filed yesterday.

None of the children was seriously hurt.

The boys were also charged with malicious mischief for damaging the window of a delivery truck.

They have no previous record with the Auburn Police Department.

The boys told police that they grew bored with shooting at a cardboard box. They then targeted a light pole and a trash bin before shooting into the Luv-N-Care Day Care Center playground."

[Joe Demko]

I think it would be appropriate for said butt pounding to be done with the bb gun until both the butts and the gun are broken.

[Balog]

Good Lord:what: ! This is why I'm in favor of corporal punishment. Throwing them in a juvenile correction facility would do nothing but make them hardened criminals (instead of the incredibly irresponsible little wanks they seem to be). A good public flogging would seem to be a lot more effective. And of course forcing them to do work to help pay for and fix the problems they created.

[DaveB]

Three of these: kid, mom, dad.

http://www.ryerson.ca/~denisoff/pillory.jpg

db

[Balog]

Oh and Mike Irwin: you might want to change the title of this thread. To me, it sounds like you want them to become some inmates girlfriend.:uhoh: I believe in corporal punishment, but not, shall we say, anal punishment.;)

[Mike Irwin]

Hum...

Hadn't thought of it that way. Yes, I agree.

[sm]

Yep, discipline would be appropriate indeed. Perhaps the first exposure for these youths. I was gonna suggest something about the parents...silly me they were probably raised the same as they have have raised their kids.

[Hutch]

That's pretty stupefying. Does anyone hold an opinion as to whether either of these miscreants have to capacity to become productive, law-abiding citizens? This really calls into question my earlier beliefs about whether felons who have served their time should regain their full rights as citizens. These two seem like another Jonesboro AR waiting to happen.

[Nightfall]

If you're going to be giving your children BB guns, you also need to give them a serious lesson of responsibility and respect for the gun.

Obviously the parents skipped the second half of the giving process... :rolleyes:

[C.R.Sam]

When I was that age...
And if I had done that.

My name, my parents names and where they lived would be published in the next issue of the local newspaper.

Cops would have given me a token , not logged, booking and held me till parents picked me up.

Parents would be fined appropriate to damage done.

Embarassed parents would then administer severe and lasting punishment.

Now we coddle the little miscreants and good luck finding one, let alone two parents per kid.

Sad.

Sam

[bountyhunter]

When you see this it shows a major meltdown. These little sociopaths have exactly zero understanding or empathy that their actions cause damage to others. Go home and you will likely find the never-there father and the passive-agressive mother and the kids learned early how humans are supposed to treat each others (as the enemy).

[bountyhunter]

That's pretty stupefying. Does anyone hold an opinion as to whether either of these miscreants have to capacity to become productive, law-abiding citizens?

You raise a good point never spoken aloud by anybody these days. This society is faced with a crop of kids that are just "wired wrong". My wife worked in the neonatal ICU and they could always tell the babies that had been born to crack addicted mothers: their behavior was markedly different, they cried all the time, they were not wired the same.

Another crop are now being lumped under the heading "attachment disorder". The theory is that if kids don't form a proper attachment to "humanity" at an early age, some of them never do. This became an issue when US families started adopting the cute little kids from Kosovo and those countries who had been raised like cattle. Some of them would show up and take after the parents with a hammer and try to set fire to the other kid in the family. Adoption services were sued because they knew of the risk.

Bottom line, don't be shocked when you see a sweet faced little kid bashing some other kid with a tire iron and then going off to play video games. They aren't wired human, so they never will be human.

[Standing Wolf]

...a 14-year-old boy who was targeted simply because he was in a wheelchair...

Definitely low!

[Mike Irwin]

"Definitely low!"

Sounds like a bias crime to me.

As for whipping someone with their gun...

A friend's Father did that many years ago when he found my friend shooting birds with his Crossman.

One shot across the stern with the flat of the stock, and loss of the gun for 2 months.

[Quartus]

Flogging, publicly in most cases, for children (and their parents), and for adults who commit a variety of crimes, is a far more humane and effective form of correction than prison.


We'd do well to get started on that (and a few hangings) and we could close down a whole lot of prisons.


There's a downside to it though - keep it up and in 5 years we'll be laying off cops.

[Balog]

I maintain we should bring back beheading as a means of execution.

bountyhunter: are you referring to the "flattening of affect" made famous by Phillip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electronic Sheep" (filmed as "Bladerunner" with Harrison Ford), ie the absence of normal emotions often evidenced by sociopaths IIRC?

[MeekandMild]

Balog,

No, he's referring to a phenomenom which Anna Freud used to call 'hospitalism', a reactive attachment disorder of children who are raised on an assembly line of emotionally distant caretakers. Freud studied it in great detail at the WW-II British orphanages.

We are seeing more and more of it now in the general population as more children are being raised in daycare. As long as the kids have some parental involvement they don't develop the whole syndrome but every day away from loving caregivers subtracts from their ability to form attachments.

This appears to be part of the social destruction caused by the sexual revolution which has led to a sharp rise in single parenthood. Social liberalism has caused a plethora of laws making marriage a difficult proposition, divorce an easy one and fornication an easy alternative.

Suggest you googlize the words "Harlow" and "monkey" and see what happens.

[standingbear]

bored eh?corporal punishment..where has it gone?not surprised.

[Waitone]

When I was 6 years old I lived in Taiwan because my dad was US Army and was stationed there. We lived on the local economy and therefore learned a lot of stuff about different cultures.

I was a strapping 6 year old boy with a great arm for throwing baseballs, footballs, and especially rocks. Fact was I was best with rocks. Well, one day I was throwing rocks down a long street where parked in a side street was one of those Army buses that are really long and big and have huge windshields. The rock I was throwing was generally flat and it sailed to the left and arc'd right into the windshield of the bus breaking it into a bazillion pieces. I ran off but the driver saw me, knew me, and proceeded to identify me to the MP's.

I was taken to the station where I waited for my father to arrive. I was placed in a holding cell until my father arrived. He spend considerable time getting chewed out my the authorities. He ended up paying for the damage, I was let out of the cell, then I got to go home and enjoy his tender mercies. To this day I have a hollow feeling about throwing a rock anywhere but a body of water.

My point? Sitting in a cell made an impression on me but also finding out my father had to pay the penalty of my stupidity was permanently branded on my brain. Then there was the matter of his tender mercies.

[BOBE]

When I was a teenager, there was a problem in our town. Some kids decided it would be fun to go around shooting out street and traffic lights. As a solution, the "city fathers" decided that if it didn't stop, there would be a curfew for all teenagers. You know, punish the many for few bad ones. Well, being the civic minded youngsters that we were, and knowing who the guilty were, bye the way, offspring of those "city fathers", We let it be known that if there was a curfew, thier days would be hell. Suddenly the problem ended and our little town returned to it's peace and quiet.:what:

[jsalcedo]

I'm not sure if the beating is the solutiuon to these behaviors.

For these sociopathic freaks if they take a beating they are taught
thats what you do to get the behavior you desire.

The caning like they do in singapore is more about public humiliation rather than the pain of the whipping.

You have to keep things in perspective.

My son laughs at physical pain, there is nothing I could do in that respect that would get his attention without me going to jail.

I have to resort to shame, guilt, and describing how his actions have hurt others.

Much more effective, although my son is not a sociopath.

When my cousin was 3 they detected sociopathic tendencies and wanted to take him to a re-education home for 18 months to try to fix it.

My Aunt and Uncle freaked and refused. And decided to raise him the
"normal" way.

Now the kid is an abusive manipulative punk who is on ritalin for life and cannot be trusted in any way shape or form.

What is the answer? Maybe we can look back to the way kids were raised
in the early to mid 20th century for the answers.

Dicipline, nurturing, consistant response to behaviors, structure, hard work
no tolerance for anti-social behaviors and hopefully at least one parent
who has the time to take care of the kids.

[Moparmike]

They would be lucky if they even saw somthing that launched projectiles before they turned 16.

When my cousin was 3 they detected sociopathic tendencies and wanted to take him to a re-education home for 18 months to try to fix it.

My Aunt and Uncle freaked and refused. And decided to raise him the
"normal" way.Well, not all doctors know everything. My quack pediatric psychologist and nerologist (at the age of 2-3) said that I would be completely retarded and never progress mentally beyond that of a slow 5yr old, much less complete elementary school. Morons.

[Baba Louie]

My Grandfather oft repeated that, "You have to discipline the savage out of each generation" to which my Grandmother would reply, "You have to discipline the necessity and desire for civilization into each generation."

Somewhere along the lines, certain people didn't get that memo. It appears more and more of them evidently think nothing of leaving youngsters with a weapon (BB gun, slingshot, etc) and no oversight of responsible self control.

Kids sure can be mean and stupid can't they? Sometimes they simply follow in their parents footsteps.

Having said that, I can remember playing "War" and chunking dirt clods and hedgeapples at the enemy (hand grenades and mortar rounds doncha know). One gave off a satisfying poof of "explosive dust", the other, if it actually hit someone, a realistic cry of "Medic" or other newly found profane words of wisdom... usually followed by some other form of retribution... but BB's were a no-no. Plus the fact that my Dad was so anal, I wasn't allowed to even point a toy gun at another kid (in his presence) and the other kids knew it so I missed them more often than not (according to them, who always seemed to eagerly discuss our war games in the presence of my father).

But that was the 60's. Parenting is different now, I gather; more streamlined with an emphasis on giving kids all the creature comforts and material things they can tolerate and little actual time learning how to be a responsible grown-up.

I won't even begin to think about what my Dad would do to me if I was one of those kids blazing away at a group of penned up young'ens, but I can imagine I'd be standing and not sitting for a while.

Adios

[Brian Dale]

Mike,

"doctors ... said that I would be completely retarded and never progress mentally beyond that of a slow 5yr old"

As an incureable smart-aleck, I implore you: Please, don't throw softballs like that!!! :evil:

Seriously, though, information like yours is useful for all of us when we're faced with "soft" data like behavioral predictions. It's a complicated field.

[Moparmike]

Happy bob, I understand.


Its just that they told me that I wouldnt be smart! I can even spell it, see: s-m-a-t. No, umm, s-m-r-t. Dang. Umm, uhh ......;)

[Brian Dale]

Mike, when I was in grade school, we moved to like, Canada, eh? and lived there for a few years. After a couple of those years, I was pulled out of class to be evaluated by a speech therapist - they wanted to see if what I had was a hearing problem or a speech impediment of some kind. It's called an American accent, lady! I suppose their hearts were in the right place. No social services, no counseling, no investigation of my parents.

[erikm]

Would I be considered a barbarian to suggest that the boys be given a thorough spanking in private, after which these deviants' parents should be chased naked through the streets by a bunch of guys (the victims fathers?) with horsewhips?

Proper firearms training (at the parents' expense) might also be a good idea.

Cheers,
ErikM :evil:

[foghornl]

I always thought that a (dare I say it?) Liberal Application of tar & feathers at High Noon in "Public Square" while being held nude in the stocks was a good idea for low-level miscreants like these.

[Mike Irwin]

"My quack pediatric psychologist and nerologist (at the age of 2-3) said that I would be completely retarded and never progress mentally beyond that of a slow 5yr old, much less complete elementary school."

So when are you going to prove him wrong?

:D :neener: :neener:

Pardon me while I flee for my life!

[Balog]

MeekandMild: A pleasure to meet you sir. I quite enjoyed your posts on the "Ms. magazine forums" thread on TFL. Thanks for clearing up which disorder was being referred to.
I have to say that I wholly agree with the idea that this type of problem is a result of the destruction of social values that came with the "sexual revolution." The attacks on the institution of marriage are truly disturbing. I remember the example I read in my younger days (ninth grade government class IIRC) that demonstrated the stable family as the basis for a healthy society. A point not made often enough in the national discussion of social issues.

P.S. I can't recall the last time I've seen someone use the word "fornication." Good to see somone still using correct terminology.

[Moparmike]

So when are you going to prove him wrong? Ugh. :rolleyes:

Re: Fleeing: Dont worry, I dont know that I can throw the Holy Handgrenade of Antioch quite that far. That, and '5' keeps mysteriously coming after '2'. :confused: However, maybe I can convince the Religious Right that you weigh as much as a duck and are therefore a witch, and use them to do my dirty work....:D