Well, There Go the Jaguars


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Speedo66
April 5, 2009, 03:41 PM
According to an article in the NY Times, the last known jaguar in the US was killed. Hopefully there are a number of unknown ones.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/us/05jaguar.html?hpw

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Hungry Seagull
April 5, 2009, 04:42 PM
I dont believe anything that the NYC folks say.

There is always a Jag somewhere in the bush, they need to get out of that urban fantasy land more.

MCgunner
April 5, 2009, 06:07 PM
I'm sure out along the Rio Grande and westward, there are Jaguar. Nobody thinks there are lion, cougar, around here, on the gulf coast of Texas, but I know people that are good outdoorsmen who have seen 'em. Cats are not easy to find. Even bobcats around here, as plentiful as house cats, are rarely actually seen OR trapped. They're wily critters. There was a family of 'em on my place this fall, saw the kittens one day sneaking around while sitting in the stand waiting for sunset or a deer. Cute little beggars.

There's some really wild country out west and plenty of Jaguar population just across the border. I can't see how they wouldn't migrate north. And, yeah, NY Times? :rolleyes:

Deer Hunter
April 5, 2009, 06:20 PM
Yep. There's no mountain lions in East Texas, either...

Tell that to my mother, who got into a screaming match with one while walking one night down our old dirt road. She faced one not 10 feet from her and managed to scare it off.

Art Eatman
April 5, 2009, 07:56 PM
There have been a few reports of jaguar sightings in far southern Arizona. It is believed that they are transient from Mexico. So far as is known, the jaguar as a resident or breeding population has been extinct in the US for many decades.

paintballdude902
April 6, 2009, 01:32 AM
It's too bad. I'm not a fan of predators being reintroduced into semi urban environments but I'm a strong believer that any animal naturally here should stay


They say we don't have panther(cougars puma what ever) but I have seen one I know several others that have too even know a guy that shot one. Strange how the state says we don't have them and they aren't native but if you shoot one I believe it's a felony

Saw a wolf this year so I called wildlife guy olxame out because he was 10mins away he saw it too and took good pics of it. He called me a week later and said he looked into it and there's a lady 5 miles away that breeds them. Guy told me if I saw it nears the horses or live stock to shoot it

ACBMWM3
April 6, 2009, 03:45 AM
Didn't even know we had jaguar!
Learn something new everyday.
Mountain Lions are seen around here all the time.
One has visited my moms back yard quite a few times in the past. They are some big suckers.

Art Eatman
April 6, 2009, 10:54 AM
A mature jaguar is twice as heavy as a mature cougar. They've been known to get into a weight range of 300 to 400 pounds, down in South America. Regardless, even in the long ago they seem to have been uncommon in the U.S.

In the brush country along the lower Rio Grande, they occasionally see the jaguarundi, which is smaller than a cougar.

I think the neatest of all of the wild cats is the margay. About the size of a large housecat, they make neat pets. They do love heights, though, and are happy to drop from the top of a door or from a shelf onto your shoulders in a sort of, "Hi, there!" greeting. "Startling" is a good descriptive term. :D

jimmyraythomason
April 6, 2009, 11:13 AM
Don't ask the state wildlife officials:scrutiny:about the presence of the big cats. If you want to know,ask the farmers. We have had cougars and "black panthers" in Alabama all my life(I'm 56) as well as black bears but the wildlife officials want us to believe that it is a case of mistaken identity whenever a sighting is reported. Most sightings go unreported because of the ridicule from those same officials. I have personally seen 3 cougars and many tracks as well so no one can tell me they aren't here.:banghead: Are the Jaguars still in the U.S.? Don't ask the USFWS,ask a farmer.

MCgunner
April 6, 2009, 02:02 PM
I think the neatest of all of the wild cats is the margay. About the size of a large housecat, they make neat pets. They do love heights, though, and are happy to drop from the top of a door or from a shelf onto your shoulders in a sort of, "Hi, there!" greeting. "Startling" is a good descriptive term.

Friend and I were out in the driveway getting ready to go goose hunting at 4AM end of December when I heard a "meow" from across the street. I called the thing thinkin' it was my mama cat. Well, this little male kitten comes running and rubbin' up on me. Someone had dumped it, I guess. So, it's been here ever since. Thing was even already box trained. Anyway, I got to lookin' at it and it looks like a danged Ocelot. Very pretty cat. I had to look Ocelots up on the net to get a picture. It doesn't have the white on the ears, but sure is colored similar to an Ocelot otherwise. Ocelots are another cat who's range has always seemed to end just this side of the Rio Grand down in the valley. They're smaller than Bobcats and more tameable. They're very pretty cats.

http://gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/exotic-pictures-breeders-babies/ocelot-pictures-breeders-babies/pictures/ocelot-0006.jpg

ArmedBear
April 6, 2009, 02:29 PM
Damn things won't run 1000 miles without going to the mechanic, anyway.

jimmyraythomason
April 6, 2009, 02:32 PM
Yeah,ArmedBear..but it has a V12!

MCgunner
April 6, 2009, 02:37 PM
Ah, a GSXR1000 will kick it's butt, is a lot more reliable, and easier to own anyway. AND, it does better stand up wheelies. :neener:

There's a Jag down the street for sale, been there for a couple of years. I figure the gas has gone bad by now. LOL Not a car I've ever been interested in. Now, THIS, maybe.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWoo82zNUA

/hijack

jimmyraythomason
April 6, 2009, 02:40 PM
Has anyone here PERSONALLY seen some of these ("non-existant" in the area) cats or other animals? I gave my sightings above,how 'bout you?

MCgunner
April 6, 2009, 03:00 PM
I have a friend that's seen two cougar near here. One was across the bay near his home at 3AM when his dog was barking wildly and he went to check. Said it was pacing around a street lamp. He was in a rather wild area, no one around him there, all brushy. He saw the other on 3 acres of land he had that bordered the fence line of Aransas NWR. He said the place was long and skinny and he had bought it just to put a stand on and catch the deer traffic to and fro. He got his deer every year, so I guess it was a good 3 acres, LOL. He saw it when deer hunting there one morning. I've not laid eyes on one myself. They are rare around here, I have no doubts, but there has to be a viable, reproducing population in or around the refuge I'll betting. There are huge numbers of prey species down there, of course. Lots of deer, hog, javelina, etc, etc. Now, over across the bay, there has been a lot of chemical plant development since then and maybe not anymore. Habitat has been drastically reduced. I hated to see all that happen. But, that's a long story.

MCgunner
April 6, 2009, 03:07 PM
Oh, one morning heading out after graveyards about 25 years ago I saw a friggin' cock pheasant. That one blew me away a bit as we have no pheasant. Found out later that Texas Parks and Wildlife had released some on a nearby ranch, but they didn't make it. Fire ants tore 'em up.

Rembrandt
April 6, 2009, 06:30 PM
How long did they expect Jaguars to survive in the area without a breeding partner?.....the cats number was up years ago.


I did have one in my drive a few years back.....fast and smooth!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/Vehicles/V-12.jpg

stonecoldy
April 7, 2009, 12:16 AM
McGunner, any chance that your cat is a Bengal?
I have one, has a pretty similar pattern to Ocelot (depending on the breeder).
They are a cross between a wild Leopard cat (from Asia) with a domestic short haired tabby cat. You have to get a couple generations apart to make them settle down.
They can be pretty affectionate, our cat follows me around and is a good companion. Sort of like a dog that coughs up fur balls on the furniture.
He was supposed to be a family pet but I think I'm gonna be stuck with him when the kids move out.
Sharp looking animal. Has a fur pattern similar to a Clouded Leopard. Climbs on everything (can jump from the floor up to the top of the refrigerator).

Art Eatman
April 7, 2009, 12:39 PM
Some neighbors have a "take-up kitty" that's a Bengal. Definitely aerial. Into everything, on top of everything, and seriously loving toward them. The big problem is that when being petted, he drools. :D

My wife has had three sightings of cougars around Thomasville, GA during the last dozen or fifteen years. Some folks derided her imagination. She pointed out that with a full hide draped over the back of our couch, she darned well knows what they look like and how big they are. End of derision,
via the "Oops!" method.

.45Guy
April 7, 2009, 01:00 PM
It's kind of odd how some criiters are being driven to extinction and some are making a comeback. Here in the last week I've seen 4 roadkill mink on route 20. Since fur prices tanked, all the little critters are coming back with a vengeance. And now we have 'yotes running loose on the back 40...

jimmyraythomason
April 7, 2009, 01:06 PM
When I was a kid in the '50s and'60s, we had NO beaver,NO otters,NO coyotes and precious few deer. Now we are overrun with beaver,and coyote not to mention armadillo! Car/deer collisions are WAY up(I've hit 3 myself)I saw 3 otter roadkill a half mile of my house last summer. I did see a red wolf while I was deer hunting in the '90s. A VERY rare sight around here!

Leaky Waders
April 7, 2009, 11:20 PM
I don't see the point.

If it's the last jaguar, and a male...it's not like it's going to go all haploid and start reproducing anyways.

paintballdude902
April 7, 2009, 11:33 PM
Jimmyray. That's impressive. They are native here but I've only seen them up by manteo in the aligaror river area. They are on a protected area and I think were reintroduced there

H&Hhunter
April 8, 2009, 06:51 PM
If it wasn't for us vicious horrible hound hunters nobody would have ever had the slightest clue that Jaguars are still in the USA.

http://www.nowpublic.com/environment/warner-glenn-first-photograph-living-wild-jaguar-united-states

Now as far as the NY Times article goes I've got to cal B.S. on the false assumption that the cat died due to the snare. A 16 year old cat in renal failure was living on borrowed time in any case. That cat had mere days left to live in the wild and was not going to add or detract from the transient population in any way.

Here is how to obtain a copy of Warner Glenn's book about his fateful encounter with the first Jaguar to be photographed in the USA, for those that are interested.

http://www.jaguarbook.com/

MCgunner
April 8, 2009, 08:36 PM
McGunner, any chance that your cat is a Bengal?

I really don't know. He was just a stray that we took in. He's a real lovey cat and he does climb on stuff. I slapped him off the table once and he got this attitude for a while. You could tell I POed him. LOL He's probably a cat mutt, but he might have a blood line of some kind. Quien sabe.

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