1-48" twist barrels


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frosty
April 6, 2009, 01:12 AM
For years, 50 caliber barrels with a 1-48" twist were concidered a good all around twist to work well with balls or bullets. I was wondering what the best bullet group anyone here has shot in a 50 cal 48 twist?

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Cpt. America
April 6, 2009, 01:16 AM
I shoot Hornady Great plains bullets 385gr with 100 grains of JS Gold powder with very good results. Three shots at 100 yards around 6" group with use a rest.

Old Cannonballs
April 7, 2009, 09:24 PM
I generally get pretty tight groups shooting off-hand at 100 yards with primitive sights, a 1:48 twist and a patched ball, but the grouping quickly deteriorates at greater distances. If you're sticking with patched balls, I'd recommend 1:66 unless you don't care about accuracy beyond 100 yards.

MCgunner
April 7, 2009, 09:42 PM
I'd recommend 1:66 unless you don't care about accuracy beyond 100 yards.

That's interesting. Thanks for the wisdom. I am wanting a round ball shooter. My 1:24 barrel shoots great with Minie ball above 350 grains or a sabot. Friend of mine got a 1:48 when I got my 1:24. His shoots 2-3" at 100 with round ball, but it ain't worth much with the heavies, on paper, but all over it. He can shoot a Lee 250 grain REAL bullet pretty well, though. Forget the sabots.

I think when the time comes, I'll look for a 1:66 as it will be a dedicated round ball shooter. I already have my sabot/heavy Minie gun.

jack404
April 7, 2009, 10:47 PM
G'day frosty

I make what is considered a decent Brown Bess replica

but i've taken the twist from 1:48 to 1:30 as the powder is far better today even my home made is better as we understand a lot more

i get less than 5" at 100 meters in comp shooting regularly 6" with carbine models but they are .72 cal not .50

cheers

jack

Old Cannonballs
April 8, 2009, 03:46 PM
I'm wondering if other people with better eyes might not do a lot better than me with a 1:48 twist and roundball out beyond a 100 yards. Anybody on this forum have much luck at 200 or 300 yards with 1:48?

mykeal
April 8, 2009, 03:47 PM
At 200 yards it doesn't much matter how good your eyes are, a roundball will be inaccurate. The ballistic coefficient is just too small.

Loyalist Dave
April 8, 2009, 03:57 PM
I make what is considered a decent Brown Bess replica

but i've taken the twist from 1:48 ....

Umm a Brown Bess replica should be a .75 caliber smooth bore.

I have gotten 1.5" groups from a rest at 50 yards with conicals and round ball from my T/C New Englander. A little wider groups with my old Pedersoli sold by Cabela's as the Blue Ridge Hunter. At 100 yards 3-4" for either.

I have found that unless I want to go for moose, I prefer a 225 grain lead, round ball for targets or hunting. Less drop over distance due to lower weight than say a 350-405 + grain conical.

I did find that you may need to try a bunch of different style conicals and be very close to bore diameter to get the back end to deform and grab the rifling. That may be why you have seen some folks with very poor results with conicals in a 1:48 twist.

My T/C liked Maxi-Hunters, but not Maxi-balls, or buffalo bullets. My Pedersoli loved Buffalo Bullets.

LD

sundance44s
April 8, 2009, 04:45 PM
Even with a good round ball twist 1 in 70 in a 50 cal ...
I`ve tested 3 different rifles with this twist and every shot past 100 yards would start to drift right or left depending on the rifle ...these were match grade custom built rifles .they were tack drivers to the 100 yard line ...but the drift set in at 110 yards .
I`ve never done this testing with a 1 in 48 twist ...but have owned several and they were good shooters out to 100 yards I just never benched them at that distance .....seems like the 54 cal I owned with 1 in 48 shot better than most of the 50 cals ...maybe something to the bigger ball and the 1 in 48 twist ....anyone else ever notice this ?....it could have just been mine .

jack404
April 8, 2009, 11:24 PM
Dave

.75 is correct sorry for my typo but the bess was a changing thing

it was a smoothbore but by the time the marines came to Australia as guards on my forefathers lot of convicts they had rifling

the design was around for 116 years and changed 30+ times ( some where rifled and had the rifling removed only to be rebarreled again later)
including a very early new Percussion system known as the Pattern 1839 Musket

in the armoury of the US library of Congress is a rifled version owned once by a famous explorer of your land ( i forget the gents name sorry)

most of the rifled versions where brought to london for yet another upgrade but lost in a fire in 1841 or there abouts

original rifled bess's are between $900 - $24,000 depending on who they where made by the rareity and the condition

despite its original build and its classical builkd being known as smooth bores some 22,000 where rifled with it is thought about 1000 originals still around today.

cheers

jack

BlackNet
April 8, 2009, 11:42 PM
I was on the phone with jim chambers recently and they told me for twist rates, 40 cal and under 1:48", 45/50/+ 1:66 twist.

FYI
Muzzle velocity of 1,000 fps
1:66 twist yields 10,909 RPM.
1:60 twist yields 12,000 RPM.
1:48 twist yields 15,000 RPM.
1:24 twist yields 30,000 RPM.

Old Cannonballs
April 9, 2009, 03:03 PM
At 200 yards it doesn't much matter how good your eyes are, a roundball will be inaccurate. The ballistic coefficient is just too small.

Well, you know, I've heard that before, but I've also heard that during the War of Independence, those Pennsylvania rifles were deadly at 200 yards and beyond. Now, I don't know if they used crossed sticks or what, but I've always heard that a 1:66 twist will give you better accuracy at a greater distance than a 1:48.

Old Cannonballs
April 9, 2009, 04:46 PM
Even with a good round ball twist 1 in 70 in a 50 cal ...
I`ve tested 3 different rifles with this twist and every shot past 100 yards would start to drift right or left depending on the rifle ...these were match grade custom built rifles .they were tack drivers to the 100 yard line ...but the drift set in at 110 yards .
I`ve never done this testing with a 1 in 48 twist ...but have owned several and they were good shooters out to 100 yards I just never benched them at that distance .

I'd really like to see the results with the 1:48 twist and how they compare to the longer twist at something beyond the 100 yard mark. I just can't believe that all those stories about the Pennsylvania rifles during the Revolutionary War were tall tales.

Old Cannonballs
April 9, 2009, 04:48 PM
BTW Sundance, what were the barrel lengths on those tack-drivers?

sundance44s
April 9, 2009, 05:12 PM
2 were Greenmountain 36 inch and the other was a 36 inch Rice barrel .
The drift in windage wasn`t that bad not more than an inch left or right ...could have been much greater at 200 yards though I didn`t test past the 110 yards .
the 2 greenmountain barrels drifted left and the Rice barrel drifted right ...The Rice barrel may have had a right hand twist .....it was a dead calm afternoon not even a breeze .

mykeal
April 9, 2009, 08:00 PM
Deleted

sundance44s
April 9, 2009, 09:43 PM
Aren`t those heavy barreled bench rifles they call Chunk Guns shooting patched round balls at great distances ? I`ve seen pics of them but don`t know anything about them , but they look like they are built for great accuracy .

Smokin_Gun
April 10, 2009, 01:18 AM
Well, you know, I've heard that before, but I've also heard that during the War of Independence, those Pennsylvania rifles were deadly at 200 yards and beyond. Now, I don't know if they used crossed sticks or what, but I've always heard that a 1:66 twist will give you better accuracy at a greater distance than a 1:48.

That's been my experiance also...I agree with the above.

arcticap
April 10, 2009, 11:29 AM
I just can't believe that all those stories about the Pennsylvania rifles during the Revolutionary War were tall tales.

I doubt that those rifles were .50 caliber. The 1 in 48" twist is closer to the optimum for .45 than it is for the .50.
Every caliber has a different optimum twist even if that twist rate can't be proven with absolute certainty.
Repeatable accuracy is usually a lot easier for me to obtain at 25 yards.
Try not to laugh at that short yardage though because even the NMLRA has 25 yard rifle competitions. :D

Byron
April 19, 2009, 01:25 PM
Allow me a question that I feel is related to this topic. After many years, I am able to shoot my T/C Hawkens (percusion and flint) again.Both are 50 caliber. I was shooting round ball and various larger bullets.My charge was 90 grains of Goex FF. Will accuracy on average increase by dropping to 60 or 70 grains? Thanks, Byron

arcticap
April 19, 2009, 03:45 PM
Lower velocities can often tighten up groups when shooting with the 1 in 48" twist barrels, but the 1 in 66" barrels do tend to prefer higher velocity loads.
Since every gun is different you'll need to experiment, and accuracy could depend on the distance to the target with each powder load too. For target shooting, only increase the powder load enough to maintain the accuracy at the longer distances after testing them out at 50 yards first.

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