Help me reload my first 28 gauge hulls please


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Leaky Waders
April 6, 2009, 10:05 PM
Hi,

I'm new to reloading. But, I'm really excited about trying it. To me, it's kind of like tying your own flies and then catching a fish on one.

So...first I was going to try reloading for my 45 long colt. I purchased a press and dies, but feel a little intimidated by 'crimps' and such without someone to tutor me first hand through the first few rounds. I guess I'll revisit that issue when I get more confidence or can find someone locally to help me (Bass Pro gives little classes I think).

Anyways...wow this is getting wordy...I have a Mec Jr 600 for 28 gauge. I have winchester aa hs hulls, hodgdon universal powder, 7.5 shot and cci 209m primers and the clay buster waa28hs replacement wads.

I want to start with light loads - 3/4 ounce. They'll be shot from a wingmaster and bps.

At the www.hodgdon.com site and in the literature that came with the Mec they list (I'm pasting).

Lead Shot 28 3/4 oz. Universal CCI 209M WAA28HS 14.2 12,100 PSI 1200

So, my question...do I just put 14.2 grains of powder in my first reloaded shells? Or do I need to start lower and work up?

Can I start lower on a 3/4 ounce load just to make it kick less for me and my son, and if so - what would be the safest/lowest starting powder charge?

I appreciate your expertise.

V/R,

L.W.

PS I may post this on shotgunworld.com if there's not a response from this well informed site.

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Cover Dog
April 6, 2009, 10:28 PM
All you need to do is find what bushing number you need to throw 14.2gr of Universal powder, and then use that bushing. Some manuals will give you a set charge for a given speed with several choices for different fps. 3/4oz is all you will ever need in the 28ga. I am using a 3/4oz load in my 12ga when I shoot it. Don't shoot it that often, always shooting a 20 or 28ga.

Just reducing the powder charge is not a good idea. Even thou it is reduced, it can actually increase the pressure. Stick with what the manuals say and you'll be fine. The 28ga is a very nice gauge to shoot. Your son will do fine.

oneounceload
April 6, 2009, 11:06 PM
14.2? WOW....I load the max of Universal which is 13.0 according to the powder company....with a 3/4 oz load of shot, and I DON'T use magnum primers either.....if you're looking for target loads, use standard primers like win 209's or similar.....a AAHS clone wad, like you're doing .....

and I shoot these in a 1100 gas gun with an added 8 oz weight to make them shoot soft

good luck!

243winxb
April 6, 2009, 11:09 PM
So, my question...do I just put 14.2 grains of powder in my first reloaded shells? Or do I need to start lower and work up? The bushing will not drop exactly 14.2 When using a 600jr the powder charge will be more heavy because of the working of the press at other stations. The powder will settle in the powder bushing. You must weight every charge on a scale while you go thru the cycle at all stations till you know how much that bushing will drop in powder weight. If mec bushing #18 drops 14.2 you will want the next smaller bushing #17 A little less powder than what the data calls for is OK. But never more powder. http://www.mecreloaders.com/documents/Miscellaneous/PowderBushingChart.pdf Check current bushing chats, this one might be old.

NCsmitty
April 6, 2009, 11:48 PM
Hodgdon lists the #18 Mec bushing as dropping 14.0gr of Universal on their bushing chart.
It's been my experience that Mec bushings drop lighter than their advertised listing. And yes, that's running the gauntlet on the press.
My friend loads Longshot in his 28Ga Mec. It seems to get the same or higher velocity with lower pressures.
Just check your own bushing drop for accuracy a few times before trying your loads. They should be fine. The recoil shouldn't be a problem.
Let us know how it goes.

NCsmitty

Leaky Waders
April 7, 2009, 12:48 AM
Thanks for the replies so far - so my mec jr came with 14, 16, and 21 powder bushings.

The literature that came with the mec jr says that an 18 will drop 14.2, the hodgdon downloaded manual says that an 18 will drop 14.

So I should order an 18 and 17 and see how close I can get to 14.2?

I mean, do you just try to see how close you can get?

Thanks for the feedback so far.

rg1
April 7, 2009, 03:43 AM
Unlike loading for rifle and pistol, you're supposed to load exactly the recipes listed by published sources that are ballistically tested by them. Do not start low and work up or exceed their charges or substitute wads, hulls, or primers for the one's they list.
Just for other info, Lyman's 5th Edition lists these loads for 28ga 3/4 oz using Universal and Win HS hulls:
13.5 Universal--Win 209 primer--waa28hs wad--1230fps--11600psi
12.5-Universal--Win 209---------waa28hs-------1150----9900
13.5 Universal---Rem 209P primer--waa28hs wad--1230----12000psi
12.0 Universal---Rem 209P primer--waa28hs wad--1150----9800psi

Leaky Waders
April 7, 2009, 09:07 AM
"Unlike loading for rifle and pistol, you're supposed to load exactly the recipes listed by published sources that are ballistically tested by them. Do not start low and work up ..."

OK, thanks alot! That's what I needed to know. I was confused after reading all the rifle and pistol literature where everything said to start 10% low and work your way up.

I've ordered some extra bushings for my reloader and will just use the scale that came with my rockchucker kit until they get here.

Afterwards, I guess I'll see how close the powder bushing drops to 14.2. Like if it only drops 14 then I could buy some different primers to accomodate that loading.

The 14.2 loading that I'm referencing is coming from the Mec tables that came with the kit and from the hodgdon reloading tables and the hodgdon reloading data guide from their site.

243winxb
April 7, 2009, 09:38 AM
When the powder charge is reduced a lot from load data, the crimp will be effected. If you look at the data RG1 posted, using less powder then 14.2gr will work. But keep in mind your using a replacement wad,clay buster waa28hs, this may give slightly different results as far as crimp.I guess I'll see how close the powder bushing drops to 14.2. Like if it only drops 14 then I could buy some different primers to accomodate that loading. This small a difference does not matter. The bushing will drop a different charge weight each time. It will vary by as much as .5gr Like i said before, never go over/above the 14.2 gr, under by as much 1gr is ok as long as the crimp is good.

rg1
April 8, 2009, 04:37 AM
What 243winxb said is correct. You won't get exact weights charging with the charge bar. If your charge bar insert is consistently dumping more than your desired charge then a smaller bushing may be needed that will put you closer to your desired charge. Changing primers wouldn't necessarily be needed, just a correct bushing. Just try to get the correct bushing and work on your technique to get consistent charges. Again this is different than rifle and pistol where charges within a tenth of a grain would be better for accuracy. You won't be able to tell a difference in small variations in shotshells.

Cajun CB
April 8, 2009, 10:35 AM
I class the AAHS 28 in two sizes. One is the older version that is about a eighth of an inch shorter than the newer version. The other is newer and longer.

The older version is much harder to load but it can be done if you select the right components. The Remington PT 28 with Longshot fits well. Other components will cause you to crush the sides of some hulls.

The newer hulls will load Universal and other 28 gauge wads.

Follow the powder recipes. They are on the net at the company sites.

Good luck.

243winxb
April 8, 2009, 10:41 AM
Cajun CB, good point, different loading data for each case, old/new , if my memory is correct, to lazy to go check data.

rg1
April 8, 2009, 12:28 PM
The data for the older Win compression molded one-piece hulls for 28 ga. are different. The only load listed for the older one piece hull using Universal:
Universal powder--12.0 grains--Win 209 primer- waa28 wad-1167fps-9700psi
So there is a difference from the old Winchester 28 ga hull and the new HS hull. Didn't know that myself.

oneounceload
April 9, 2009, 11:53 AM
While there may be a difference between the old AA and the old AAHS and the new AAHS, I use the same recipe and wads and they are working just fine. I'm using 13 of Universal with AAHS claybuster replacements and reclaimed shot. Using a reloading calculator, it comes out to $2.37/box for 28 gauge - A lot better than the $11/box for new AA's.

Leaky Waders
April 9, 2009, 01:27 PM
Thanks everyone.

So I have the shorter, I guess older aa hs hulls.

After some trial and error, I got 5 hulls loaded with 14.2 grains of universal, 3/4's ounce of 7.5 shot and cci 209m primers.

I used a rcbs balance and powder measure that came with my rcbs rockchucker kit for the powder.

I was having problems with the crimp.

The crimp looked as if it was ripping too light to start with and after adjusting it until the crimp was ajagged ripped edge and backing off I figure I have about 5 shells made...for roughly 40 dollars a piece ;)

I'm still confused as to the load recipe. Hodgdon doesn't differentiate between old winchester aa hs and new wincester aa hs.

OK, the bay is flat...I'll be fishing for a bit.

Thanks for all the advice (ps I have alot of fiocci hulls and some remington hulls and some bismuth hulls too that could be reloaded if you guys think that they are better in one respect or another.)

243winxb
April 10, 2009, 08:25 PM
I was having problems with the crimp. There is more than one adjustment for the crimp. Read the instructions, its trial and error. If the taper crimp is applyed correctly your reload should look like a factory shell. Seem there IS 2 AAHS hulls :uhoh: old AAHS and the new AAHS, Here is some Winchester info 2003 date Winchester 410 & 28 gauge shotshells utilize a new and improved High Strength-HS hull designed to improve reloading life. The new HS can be identified by: HS on head stamp,HS on tube stamp, Black colored ink tube stamp positioned lengthwise. Winchester 28 gauge HS hulls must be reloaded with the new 28 gauge HS wad symbol WAA28HS (Red colored wad) and the new reload data. If the hull does NOT contain the head stamp and tube stamp indentification as shown, it is not a new HS hull. Non HS hulls should be reloaded with the pink Winchester wad (WAA28) The 2003 AAHS in now the old AAHS, its been replaced by the Current AAHS :confused::banghead: I'm still confused as to the load recipe. Hodgdon doesn't differentiate between old winchester aa hs and new wincester aa hs. Looks like they use the same load data. :confused::

243winxb
April 10, 2009, 08:45 PM
Thank you very much for taking the time to contact us here at Winchester Ammunition. We are always glad to hear from our many friends and customers who share in the shooting sport.

When the new HS 28 gauge shell was made the reloading process worked fine as long as you used Winchester Wads and Winchester Ball Powder. However over time we determined that the use of other wads coupled with non Winchester Powders that were less dense changed the load fit. We therefore lengthened the 28 ga hull by .050 to accomodate these changes. The new HS hull is the same length as the old compression formed hull.

Thank you again for contacting us here at Winchester Ammunition. If you should require additional information, do not hesitate to contact us.

Sincerely,

Winchester Technical Department More reading

243winxb
April 10, 2009, 09:55 PM
This copy is from my reloading notes in 2003. The hulls were very new and very little loading data was available at that time. Hope this helps. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/28GA.jpg http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/28ga2.jpg

243winxb
April 10, 2009, 11:27 PM
Looks like 3 hulls i guess by the email. the AA, the AAHS, and then the new AAHS that is longer ??

Leaky Waders
April 11, 2009, 12:12 AM
Thanks alot for your research 243winxb.

Yes there are two different winchester aa hs 28 gauge hulls. Mine are 2 and 5/8's inches long and therefore the shorter ones...as defined by curlynohair on shotgunforums.

I'll shoot some of my relaods tomorrow and see how they turn out.

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