Accurate Semi-Auto 7.62x39 rifle


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jrtayloriv
April 7, 2009, 11:48 AM
I'm looking for an affordable (under $1000), accurate (1.5 MOA or better), semi-auto 7.62x39 rifle. Does such a thing exist? Everything I've read about AK variants says that I will never find an AK/SKS that is that accurate. But surely there are other semi-auto rifles in this caliber, besides the AK and SKS, right? But I like the ballistics qualities of the round, and that I can find truckloads of cheap practice ammo ...

What would you all recommend here?

thanks,
jrtayloriv

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gvnwst
April 7, 2009, 11:58 AM
If you want to get 1.5 MOA with that cheap pratice ammo....(IF possible) you will have to run a fully match grade setup. I personally don't know of any accurate semis in 7.62x39, as most people wouldn't buy it.

TMM
April 7, 2009, 12:00 PM
customer at a gunshop told me that he could get 1.5-2MOA with his SKS. Currently i've been able to get 6-8MOA... but you know about stuff you hear in a gunshop - take it with a saltshaker full of salt.

i know there is a Czech version of the AK, it's called the VZ-47 or something. looks like the AK but is functionally different. don't know about the accuracy, but it might be worth looking into.

there's also Ruger's Mini-30, which are most likely more accurate than an AK but are notorious for losing accuracy as they heat up and whatnot. runs about $800 new, and they actually come with a normal-capacity magazine now as opposed to Bill's wonderful 5-rounder.

TMM

easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca
April 7, 2009, 12:02 PM
I can find truckloads of cheap practice ammo ...
Pray tell, tell us where. The whole forum is listening...

gvnwst
April 7, 2009, 12:03 PM
i know there is a Czech version of the AK, it's called the VZ-47 or something. looks like the AK but is functionally different. don't know about the accuracy, but it might be worth looking into.
VZ-58. Other than just passing looks, the VZ has almost nothing to do with the AK, different firing system, bolt design, and everything else. Those are usually about as accurate as a nice AK.

jrtayloriv
April 7, 2009, 12:19 PM
Pray tell, tell us where. The whole forum is listening...

At all those places where they sell .308 ammo for twice as much. Cheap is relative. And relative to other MBR calibers 7.62x39 is cheap.

jrtayloriv
April 7, 2009, 12:24 PM
VZ-58. Other than just passing looks, the VZ has almost nothing to do with the AK, different firing system, bolt design, and everything else. Those are usually about as accurate as a nice AK.

Thanks for that -- I'd never heard of that before, or at least if I had, I discounted it because it just looked like a very expensive AK variant. When you say "as accurate as a nice AK" -- how accurate do you mean?

mljdeckard
April 7, 2009, 12:27 PM
There are a few things you can do to a stock SKS to make it much more shootable. Go to http://www.tech-sights.com/sks.htm , this is a pin-on sight upgrade that increases your sight radius, gives windage and elevation adjustment from the same place, and switches the rifle to an "M-16" style sight picture. I just installed mine, I'm waiting on weather and ammo to go out and fine-tune it. There are also a number of aftermarket trigger upgrades available.

Keep in mind, most of the time when you are trying to get to MOAville, the asterisk note says; "Using match grade ammunition". FOR ME, the whole point of this rifle is economy, and I'm not going to start hand loading for it. There comes a point where I have to ask myself how much I'm going to spend on upgrades on a rifle that only cost me $100 to begin with. I don't know if anyone makes match grade ammo for it at any reasonable price. If I can get 2-3 MOA out of it, I'll probably just say "not bad for a relic with imported ammo" and call it good. Even if the rifle can do 1.5 MOA, I'm not going to get it with Wolf.

And I almost forgot to insult your intelligence by reminding you that if you start modifying a SKS, you must put on a total of 10 U.S. made parts to be compliant with BATFE rules which are silly, unenforceable, and make absolutely no difference in how the rifle functions.

Marlin 45 carbine
April 7, 2009, 12:34 PM
the new model Mini 30's are much more accurate than the older .308 dia bore rifles. for that matter the 189 series with the .310 bore was an improvement on the first model.
the 189's as well as the new ones respond well to good ammo - as any rifle will.

briansmithwins
April 7, 2009, 12:47 PM
I can get 2MOA groups with my Chinese SKS, on a good day. The limit for me is my eyes as keeping a consistent sight picture with the stock sights is difficult.

For better accuracy I'd look at a bolt gun. BSW

Limeyfellow
April 7, 2009, 12:55 PM
Replacing the sight of the SKS with a Tech-sight and bedding the action so it doesn't have that movement anymore in the stock are two of the biggest improvements you can do for the SKS. Then cleaning up the trigger, throwing away the bayonet, removing the handguard from the piston tube, maybe a recoil buffer and some other bits and pieces can get you an accurate SKS and a half.

lions
April 7, 2009, 12:58 PM
I would say if you want a semi-auto 7.62x39 then get the AK/SKS. If you want 1.5 MOA, get something else.

They are fairly accurate rifles, they just aren't made to shoot 1.5 MOA.

You either have to loosen up the accuracy requirements a little bit or go barking up a different tree. Good luck.

gvnwst
April 7, 2009, 01:01 PM
Ya know, you MIGHT be able to find a AR in 7.62x39 (under $1k), and if you build it right, should* do 1.5 MOA..... *i have no clue how accurate a AR in that caliber would be, but krochus will know.

scottishclaymore
April 7, 2009, 01:08 PM
I think a Yugo SKS is about as accurate a semi-auto rifle that comes in that caliber. It's sufficiently accurate for hunting and social work. I have landed some pretty big boars with mine.

bang_bang
April 7, 2009, 01:25 PM
krochus will know.

That's exactly who I expected to see posting on this one. I believe he has an Armalite AR platform 7.62x39 rifle that shoots better than 1.5 moa.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 7, 2009, 01:31 PM
Does such a thing exist?

No. Next question! :)

Matrix187
April 7, 2009, 02:04 PM
An SKS with a tech sight, and kivaari trigger job is the best you can do with an SKS. A saiga and vz 58 will probably be just as or more accurate as an SKS.

gvnwst
April 7, 2009, 03:05 PM
I believe he has an Armalite AR platform 7.62x39
nope, it is a model 1 sales, here is what he said in a thread.
Model 1 Sales 20" Ar15 flattop chambered for 7.62x39mm
But still, it is accurate.:D

SN13
April 7, 2009, 03:21 PM
my Saiga 7.62x39 20" barrel will do 2-2.5" groups at 100 with Wolf Ammo.... My .308 will do 4" groups with Brown bear but 1.5" with Federal Gold Match...

It's not always the gun, sometimes it's the ammo. I think the variances in powder weight and bullet weight are HUGE in mass-produced steel-case ammo....

I can't find the info where someone pulled apart Wolf x39 and weighed the bullets and powder charge. my numbers are going to be wrong but the charges varied like 2.5 grains from low to high, and the bullets varied from like 115gr to 130gr in a 123gr cartridge... it was ridiculous. IMO, the AK is more accurate than the ammo put through it. Bad ammo tolerances cause the AK's "Inaccuracies".

barnetmill
April 7, 2009, 03:32 PM
Best solution is to set up an AR15 with a match 7.62x39 barrel.

Many of the better AK's will do close 2 MOA with good ammo. I would approach an AK builder of good repute to make an AK with a good barrel and put together correctly.


Also, I suspect that rebedding the stocks of SKS rifles will improve their groupings.

dscottw88
April 7, 2009, 03:38 PM
You could look into a Saiga, they are some of the most accurate AK's. But if you don't want to mess around then you can pick up a 7.62 upper from model 1 sales as mentioned above.

R.W.Dale
April 7, 2009, 03:40 PM
I'm looking for an affordable (under $1000), accurate (1.5 MOA or better), semi-auto 7.62x39 rifle. Does such a thing exist? Everything I've read about AK variants says that I will never find an AK/SKS that is that accurate. But surely there are other semi-auto rifles in this caliber, besides the AK and SKS, right? But I like the ballistics qualities of the round, and that I can find truckloads of cheap practice ammo ...

My entry level Model1 20" Ar15 shoots right around 1.5moa + or - a tad depending on the particular handload used.

However I underlined two statements in your quote to illustrate that those two items are mutually exclusive. 1.5 MOA is simply not gonna happen with ANY factory loads, My benchrest 7.62x39 wouldn't even pull that off reliably with factory ammunition be they brass or steel cased offerings


I can't find the info where someone pulled apart Wolf x39 and weighed the bullets and powder charge. my numbers are going to be wrong but the charges varied like 2.5 grains from low to high, and the bullets varied from like 115gr to 130gr in a 123gr cartridge... it was ridiculous. IMO, the AK is more accurate than the ammo put through it. Bad ammo tolerances cause the AK's "Inaccuracies".

In my opinion wolf is the bottom of the pile in the world of steel cases 7.62x39 ammo. There are other manufacturers that make much much better quality ammo than Wolf. Barnual/Monarch is one that comes to mind.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/Stevens%20200/HPIM2355.jpg

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