Frangible Bullets - any good?

[gmh1013]

I bought some SBR ammo 9mm 100 grain lead free ammo a few weeks ago to carry in my SIG PRO.
They suppose to be about 1250-1275 ft per out of a 4 inch barrel and not ricochet
upon impact.
At 25 bucks for a box of 50 I wonder if they anygood because I dont find much on them.
Somebody at Carters Country told me some Police dept are using these now days but cant find any articles on it.
Anybody have any experience with them?

[rcmodel]

Lots of PD's are using them, for training.

Lead-free frangable ammo was invented for indoor range practice to keep lead dust down.

I doubt any PD is using them on the street.

rc

[KBintheSLC]

For indoor training as stated above... in a rifle round like some of the NATO 5.56 offerings, it makes a devastating way to dodge the Hague Convention. Nothing quite like a little chunk of metal that shatters when striking soft tissue at 3000+ fps.

I wouldn't use them for defense in a pistol unless I were an Air Marshall.


...

[bigfatdave]

I believe the air marshals use real JHP rounds anyway. The explosive decompression thing is mostly a Hollywood invention.
You can do your own test:
1-Get a large pressure chamber, install a quick-opening valve to simulate the bullet hole. I imagine any reasonable handgun round would make a hole smaller than one inch, so use a 1 inch ID ball valve
2-Pressurize it to around 15psig (two atmospheres, for one atmosphere differential pressure to ambient) or more if you want.
3-Open the valve quickly, I'd recommend attaching a over-sized lever arm to the valve, for easy fast opening
4-Watch your chamber not disintegrate. Imagine a chamber with the pressurized volume of an airplane, and compare it to the little thing you built
5-Advanced experimenters only! Take your chamber to the range, put a handgun inside pointed downrange with a remote-controlled device to pull the trigger (radio control? timer?)
6-activate trigger on gun inside chamber ... repeat step 4

Trust me, I work with pressurized systems for a living, you need a much more sudden and dramatic (or long and steady) change in pressure to damage even a flimsy vessel.
-----------
The box o' truth (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm) has a test of frangible SD ammo, it wasn't very impressive at living up to the advertising claims.
Personally, I'm a subscriber to the concept that anything worth shooting is worth shooting with the most effective round I can utilize. Considering that frangible ammo either will penetrate walls, or is lousy defense ammo, and the lack of real stopping power in any handgun round - I wouldn't count on frangible ammo for defense.

[lvcat2004]

I would stick with tried and ture JHP unless someone can give me solid data to convince me otherwise.

[-v-]

They are great for practice and close-distance plate shooting, unless your a fan of getting hit by lead spall. As for carry? FMJ is a better choice then frangable.

Another thought, frangable might also be good for handgun-sized varmit grenade-type rounds too.

[PO2Hammer]

I've shot a few boxes of the SBR 9mm.

I think your nuts for carrying with it.

It either acts as a fmj in soft targets or bursts into a cloud of dust when it hits anything hard. Bad news either way in a gun fight.

It's relatively low powered because there just isn't room in the case for a decent powder charge because of the extra long sintered bullet.

Often I would get failures to lock the slide open. That would happen with two different 9mms, including a Sig P226.

On the upside, they are highly accurate.

Police only use them for training.

[mgkdrgn]

I purchased a box of frangible in 9mm. They do shatter when they hit anything hard (rocks, pavement, metal).

I load them in my Glock 26 for a -specific- carry situation ... when I am walking my dog. My concern there isn't human BG's, but other dogs, as there are several rather nasty ones in the neighborhood.

If I had to engage one of them, I would be shooting down at a shallow angle against pavement. I don't want any misses or thru-n-thru's sailing off through the suburban neighborhood, so I keep a mag of FR that I load when walking the dog. That is pretty much my only use for them.

[ArmedBear]

It sounds like it'd be great for rattlesnakes at close range in the rocks.

My concern there isn't human BG's, but other dogs, as there are several rather nasty ones in the neighborhood.

A piece of beef jerky will divert a tough dog's attention a lot quicker than a bullet. Bulldogs, mastiffs, catahoulas, etc. are bred to ignore pain and injury -- but no dog I know of is bred to ignore beef jerky.

[Clarence]

I bought 500 rounds in 9mm.

I'm glad their gone, I'll not buy any more.

[PO2Hammer]

A piece of beef jerky will divert a tough dog's attention a lot quicker than a bullet.

RUFN?

beef jerky?

[lvcat2004]

A piece of beef jerky will divert a tough dog's attention a lot quicker than a bullet. Bulldogs, mastiffs, catahoulas, etc. are bred to ignore pain and injury -- but no dog I know of is bred to ignore beef jerky.

I don't know about beefjerky, but no dog is bred to ignore a 9mm JHP center mass double tap either.....

;)

[moxie]

Agree with posts above. If, however, you are really concerned about ricochet and overpenetration, try Glaser Blue. They are expensive, but they do work. Some will argue that point, as happens on virtually any point raised here. A good compromise is to load the first 4-6 rounds of the mag with Glasers and then the remainder with high quality JHPs.

[cornman]

It is about hitting fuel tanks, hydrolics, electronic, etc. There is a special round made for air marshals and the like.




I believe the air marshals use real JHP rounds anyway. The explosive decompression thing is mostly a Hollywood invention.
You can do your own test:

[Joshua M.]

Just a little FYI, and not to say a human has a harde skull than a hog, but...We were butchering hogs last year, and instead of my buddy walking in and getting a .22, I said I had a .38 in the truck, and that we could just use that, well...They were .38+P Winchester aluminum type self defense rounds(that were given to me), and after all 5 rounds point blank between the eyes, all we had was a pissed off piggy. We went and got that .22, dropped it deader than a doornail. After peeling the skin back on Mr. Piggy's skull, they fragmented allright, but notihng even remotley close to penetration...my .02 worth

[bigfatdave]

hydrolics
Really?
Got anything to back that up besides the title of the "air freedom" round from EXTREME!!! SHOCK!!! ammo?

[ArmedBear]

I don't know about beefjerky, but no dog is bred to ignore a 9mm JHP center mass double tap either.....


Believe it or not, this is demonstrably false.

People don't understand much about animal defense, which is why they shoot hollowpoints at bears and get killed, etc.

See Joshua M.'s post also.

Two things that people don't understand:

1. Unlike people, many animals, particularly those bred to ignore pain, do not stop attacking because they are injured, even fatally.

2. Animals aren't built like people, and I know someone who emptied his .44 Magnum at an attacking razorback. Most of the rounds bounced right off, even though they were head shots. The last one finally stopped the pig, right in front of him, and when his Redhawk was empty. A missed shot at that point would have been really ugly for him.

[cybernorris]

I have about 30 rounds of Glaser Safety Slugs ... do these count?

[bensdad]

Dogs are tough. Really tough. I found a german shepherd in our barn one morning. He had been shot in the hind-quarters with a shotgun. There were holes in his scrotum, hips, muscle in the upper legs, tailbone. Plenty of blood on the ground where he had been laying also. He got up and walked over to me. I don't know any man who could have done that.

As for frangible bullets, stick to lead.

[scythefwd]

ArmedBear,
There are several dogs breeds that will ignore anything but the other dog (whether it is the aggressor or not) when in a confrontation. My dog, an American Bull Dog / American Staffordshire Terrier mix (both breeds have roots as bull baiters and pit dogs and require a lot of socialization to keep dog aggression out of the dog ) will not acknowledge any other object if there is a dog that is showing any form of aggression towards him. Shoot, my dog gets so excited (not panicked, real excitement) at the vet that he will actively turn down treats. The lead at least has a chance of stopping an 85 lb aggressive dog where the jerky just slows him down a bit. Remember, if the dog is serious about getting to you or your dog, jerky only makes him stop long enough to eat it. You can't run away quick enough when he is done.

[chris in va]

Mmmm beef jerkey. A small sample of what I'm about to get!