9mm through .357 barrel?


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model14
April 8, 2009, 07:45 PM
Anyone have any experience pushing the .355" 9mm bullet through the .357" barrel? I used a 9mm lead bullet and slugged my .357 barrel. It looks like the bullet is well into the rifleing grooves. The crimp on the .357 casing gives a good seal for the 9mm bullet. I want to experiment with the 9mm Hdy 90 grain HP-XTP in my quest for 2000 fps from my 686.

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MkgReloader
April 8, 2009, 08:54 PM
I made up and shot two boxes of 500 124 gr. 9mm RNLead bullets (.356) loaded as light 357mag loads - 4.0 grs Bullseye. No problems in Ruger Security Six or Colt Trooper. I've never tried hot loads or .355 bullets. You might try a few lighter loads and then work up if accuracy looks good.

ReloaderFred
April 8, 2009, 09:00 PM
"I want to experiment with the 9mm Hdy 90 grain HP-XTP in my quest for 2000 fps from my 686."

You're going to put your eye out......

The only possible way I see your project succeeding, is maybe with a .32 caliber very light bullet in a sabot. It would be really fast, but probably not accurate at all.......

Hope this helps.

Fred

Jimfern
April 8, 2009, 09:01 PM
I have loaded lead 9mm bullets in my Ruger security six and Dan Wesson without any problems and they seem about as accurate as .357 to me. Of course, I wasn't shooting the wings off of flies or anything like that.

I have measured different 9mm lead bullets and some of they have gone from .356 to .359 as I recall.

Trying to hit 2K, I expect your accuracy will suffer.

kanook
April 8, 2009, 09:11 PM
ruger 357 blackhawk comes with a 9mm cylinder

Archie
April 8, 2009, 09:16 PM
In fact, a lead bullet will upset in the chamber and throat and be swaged to bore diameter by the time it clears the forcing cone.

2000 fps? Good luck and work up to that s l o w l y. It's hard to post with less than a full set of fingers.

The Bushmaster
April 8, 2009, 09:22 PM
Model14...Could you do all of us a favor? Have someone of your surviving family come on here to let us know what happened to you when you reached 2,000 fps after they put you down 6'...Would you?

Walkalong
April 8, 2009, 09:29 PM
I agree with Fred....You'll put your eye out.

Buy yourself a .357 maximum. :)

ants
April 8, 2009, 10:06 PM
Besides, the poor seal of a .355 jacketed bullet in a .357 bore will make it harder yet to get velocity.

Eb1
April 8, 2009, 10:56 PM
Let's not feed this person any info that could get him hurt. I don't think it is high road to condone this type of practice.

You can flame me if you wish, but.... I don't care. This is not a safe practice.:banghead::rolleyes:

Walkalong
April 9, 2009, 08:10 AM
Agreed.

He does seems intent on going down a foolish road. :confused:

Jim Watson
April 9, 2009, 09:22 AM
Ed Harris once did an American Rifleman feature article on shooting 9mm bullets in .38 and .357 revolvers (and .38 bullets in 9mm autos.)
He reported two things related to your project:
1. No crimp gave adequate bullet pull for a 9mm bullet in .38 brass. He had a custom sizing die made to give a tight friction fit.
2. 9mm bullets in light to medium .38 loads did ok, Internet Concern about shooting a bullet two whole thousandths undersize notwithstanding. BUT, they were a flop at .357 levels; apparently getting distorted by high pressure in the jump through the cylinder throat into the barrel.

ilbob
April 9, 2009, 11:45 AM
Considering that many bullets you buy come from the suppliers a few thousand off one way or the other, I doubt that being .355 is going to be much of an issue.

I would be more worried about trying to get 2000 fps. I am not so sure he cannot safely do so, but it is somewhat of an uncharted territory. I do seem to recall some published loads of 110 grain bullets at 1700-1800 fps.

One would think it would not be impossible to safely put a 90 grain bullet out at 2000. But having said so, it is not really possible to extrapolate such things safely.

rfwobbly
April 9, 2009, 05:29 PM
Anyone have any experience pushing the .355" 9mm bullet through the .357" barrel? I used a 9mm lead bullet and slugged my .357 barrel.

My son tried this the other day and he had 2 issues...
• 6-8 inch shot group at 25 yards (he normally keeps it under 4)
• Some of the thinner wall brass refused to hold the bullet fast in the case. It was only one brand of brass that gave him issues. He ended up culling all those out.

jtuck
April 9, 2009, 06:39 PM
Model14...Could you do all of us a favor? Have someone of your surviving family come on here to let us know what happened to you when you reached 2,000 fps after they put you down 6'...Would you?

I forsee model14's typing speed being seriously impaired in the near future.

liljohn
April 10, 2009, 01:45 PM
He didn't say he was going to keep going until he acheived 2000 fps, he said he was pursuing it.

If he's smart enough to watch for pressure signs (sticky case extraction, primers, case neck splits, etc.) and check the barrel to make sure the bullet either exits the barrel or doesn't come apart, he's not going to experience any trouble. A couple thousands smaller is of no consequence. Could it affect accuracy? Perhaps. But it won't cause high pressure.

Even though it's a jacketed bullet, it will obturate to fit the bore. If the bullet stays straight when making the jump from case to forcing cone, odds are it will shoot OK.

The biggest factor is your powder choice. You'll probably want something of medium speed. If it's too fast you might get flame cutting of the top strap and high pressure signs. If it's too slow with a light bullet you could get a squib load (the powder may not fully ignite, leaving the bullet in the barrel with powder behind it).

Crimping will be tricky, too. A taper crimp might give you enough bullet pull to ensure consistent powder burning, but a roll crimp would be better. Thing is you'll need a crimp groove. A cannelure cutter will enable you to put a crimp groove on the bullet. I have one and it's easy to use. C&H Tool and Die might still make them.

Just make sure you take appropriate precautions and keep an eye on everything. If you experience a misfire--check the barrel!!! A squib load could fire the primer (not the powder) and push the bullet into the bore. It won't be any louder through your ear muffs than a .22 or even as quiet as the hammer dropping.

Frankly, I don't think you can do it with a lead bullet. You'll have pressure signs or bullet performance issues before you get to 2000 FPS.

I vaguely remember reading an article about a guy that custom made pure copper and perhaps aluminum projectiles that were very light. He was able to break 2000 fps with one of these. They'd lose energy fast, though, so you wouldn't want them for defense purposes.

model14
April 10, 2009, 09:30 PM
LilJohn,
Thank you for the useful and intelligent information. Some of the responses from others to my questions have also been useful and I have learned from them as I have from yours. I have determined from those responses that are based on experience and facts, that I should not attempt to achieve the 2000 fps performance from my 686, including using a 9mm bullet. I will continue to study reloading manuals and the Pet Load Manual to determine how to recognize when my loads are leading to possible damage or injury. I find that exploring the high performance end of handloading is interesting and exhilerating. I enjoy trying different powders at different loads and with different bullets. Anyone can just copy from the manual and stay ultra conservative. That is great for saving money, but to me there is a lot more to handloading. One thing for sure, in the future I will be careful how I ask a question here. I didn't realize that just because I asked a question which implied risk that many would assume I am about to kill myself. Live and learn. Thanks again.
p.s. I am going to try some 9mm bullets in my .357, using your advice about minimizing risk. I am well versed on how to recognize a squib. When I am testing I only load one cartridge at a time, and never double action when loading more than one.

fourdollarbill
April 10, 2009, 09:52 PM
Wow that would be pushing your CUP's to the big bang theory. I'm guessing 47900 c u p's or more. The 686 will let you know what it thinks on the first shot. Maybe use a pistol vise and a string to trigger it.

If you have a 10" TC barrel you can get 2019fps with H110/125gr and 2079fps with AA#5/110gr.

Maybe take your B/C gap to .001" with that 686 would help your 90gr theory :eek: ???

You sound very determined.

Clark
April 11, 2009, 08:18 AM
I have shot .307" bullets in a .355" groove pistol barrel.

It still goes bang, but it is not the best.

I have shot .355" bullets in a .307" groove pistol barrel.

It goes bang once, and then is jammed up with the bullet jacket left in the throat.

GRIZ22
April 11, 2009, 03:14 PM
IIRC one of the ways the original Super Vel got such high velocities was using a jacketed bullet .001 smaller than normal (.355 in a 9mm, .356 in a 357). I've fired 9mm bullets in a 38/357 and accuracy was okay. However, I wasn't in a quest for 2000 fps.

KI.W.
April 12, 2009, 07:02 AM
I have T/C G2 14" and Dan Wesson 8" .357 Rem maximum / Supermag. They donīt like 9mm Luger bullets. ( 15" group at 100 yards. With Hornady HP XTP groups are 3/4"). :mad:
PS:
My 9,3x57 Mauser is ok with 9mm Makarov bullets :cool:

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