[Blain]

I have been observing this gun for a while now, and I am very fond of it so far. Does anyone own or have any real world experience with this gun?

P12-45

http://www.flash.net/~ffi/para/images/p12.gif
http://www.flash.net/~ffi/para/images/para-1.gif

SPECIFICATIONS: PARA-ORDNANCE MODEL P12-45

OPERATION: Single Action

CALIBER: .45 ACP

BARREL LENGTH: 3.5 Inches

WEIGHT EMPTY: 26 oz (P12-45R); 34 oz (P12-45E)

SIGHTS: 3 Dot

STOCKS: Black Polymer

MAGAZINE CAPACITY: 12 (10 U.S. models)

FINISH: Matte Black

This model was designed as the first compact .45 ACP pistol with 12+1 shot capacity. It features a slim body design with rounded front strap and smooth beveled edges to eliminate bulk. It has a flared ejection port for efficient ejection of spent castings. The P12-45 is 5" tall with an overall length of approximately 7". It features a manual thumb safety, grip safety, firing pin lock, and inertia firing pin safety. It is available with a 3" barrel and a choice of light alloy or carbon steel frames.



P13-45

http://www.flash.net/~ffi/para/images/p13.gif

Here's the best of all possible world: compact conceal ability, a 4 1/4" barrel, plus the stopping power of *13+1 rounds of .45 ACP. And, the P13-45 is available in your choice of matte black alloy or steel, duotone or bright stainless steel finish. For accuracy, reliability and overall quality, plus standard features that others offer only as custom extras, the P13-45 is a commanding presence in the field of 1911A1-type defensive handguns. Available in .40 S&w as the P15-40, with *15+1 shot capacity.


What I don't get is this....a coupon for buying post ban mags????

http://www.flash.net/~ffi/para/para.htm
LIMITED-TIME
HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINE OFFER:
When you purchase a new Para-Ordnance Pistol (most Models), you will receive a certificate that allows you to legally purchase up to (2) High-Capacity Magazines. You must act within 90 days of purchase. Certificate is Non-Transferable. See your local dealer for details. Supplies are limited.

[Zundfolge]

The only problem with the double stack Para Ordnance pistols for CCW is that the grips are too darn fat to be considered and "ULTIMATE CCW" gun.

I used to really really want a P10-45 until I handled one and found the grip to be too fat.

Look at their single stack LDA guns for "Ultimate" concealment.
http://www.paraord.com/pages/carry.html


What I don't get is this....a coupon for buying post ban mags????

The boys up at ParaOrd where very smart ... back in 1994 they produced TONS of full capacity magazines so they would have "pre-ban" magazines for years to come :).

[SouthpawShootr]

I have a P13 and, while I wouldn't sell it, it is hardly my idea of the ultimate carry pistol. It's reliable enough, but, as already pointed out, it's fat. Mine is well-made and would be serviceable for CCW. Both P13 and P12 standard cap mags abound (I got 2 13 rounders and a 10 rounder - all factory - from someone on gunbroker for $75).

Another thing: Just about everybody who makes defensive handguns in this price range gives you 2 mags with the gun - except Kimber and Para. This is annoying.:cuss:

[Airboss]

This is a P-12 i had built a few years ago.
Slide has hade the top flatened and groved bottom of the slide is cove cut and the slide fitted to the frame the ejection port re shaped custom bull barrel one piece guide rod mccormick springs ambi safty titamiaum main spring and fireing pin beaver tail back strap checkered knovack carry nite sights and coco bolo grips

[10-Ring]

I owned a P16 (40S&W) & have tried the P13 & P10. Although all are nice guns & shot very well if I had to live w/ that grip I stick w/ the fullsize P14 & take advantage of the full length barrel & sight radius. I think there are better options for a carry gun.... like Para's own C7.45 LDA

[Blain]

Just how fat are these grips? I have big hands, and I love the idea of a 13 shot .45! It's just so much firepower, it blows my 10 shot .40S&W Walther P99 away!

[SouthpawShootr]

If the grips were fat, it would be a simple problem to remedy. In fact, the grips are about as slim as they can get as they come from the factory. The frame is what's fat. But there are people who like this.

[12-34hom]

I own and carried a P-14ltd for a # of years. Excellent overall platform, but not what i consider the "best" CCW pistol.

In its place, went to a seris 70 1911 in 10mm.

Now, if H&K would chamber one of its USP models in 10mm, That would be very close to a "perfect" CCW gun, if such a thing even exits.

12-34hom.

[BigG]

This is what I think is perfect.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=537311

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

I guess "Ultimate CCW Gun" means different things for
lots of different people? :uhoh: With reliability being my main
concern, I tend to favor the SIG-SAUER P220A. :rolleyes: :uhoh:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Andrew Wyatt]

para ord pistols tend more towards the too fricking wide, and the less than reliable.

[Blain]

Why/how arn't they reliable.

[critter]

I have both a P-14 and a P-16 (both NON-LDA models). Both are 100% reliable and very accurate. The grip is wide, but for average and larger hands, they are no problem at all. They DO take a little getting used to if you are a regular 1911 shooter, but no problem. The wide grip DOES spread out recoil and make it a non-issue. Follow up shots are FAST!

With good holster and belt, they are much easier to conceal than you would think.

I have handled the P-10, P-12 and P-13. All feel ok to me except the P-10. It feels just too short for me to grip well.

Your mileage may vary!

[Andrew Wyatt]

I've seen them every year at the match, and the magazines stop working unless you keep them really clean. i've also seen nore than a couple non magazine related malfunctions of one type or other, probably related to the feed ramped barrel and crud building up under it.

[BigG]

I've seen the ParaOrd mags crap out, also.

[Cableman]

Here is my CCW - You won't find a better gun for CCW IMHO. Unless you need that 45 cal.

http://www.kahr.com/images/pr_pm9093.gif

[E=MC^2]

BigG's is the closest thing I've seen so far. A J-framed Centenial model S&W.

I have a 12oz scandium version in .357. This replaced my titanium version in .38+P(10.8oz).

[digex]

I had a P-12 for about 6 months. Terrible problem with stovepiping. Sent it off twice, tried different ammo, no luck. Traded it in on my Kimber Custom II that has so far been 100% reliable. I definitely liked the size and dimensions of the para, especially since I have big hands anyway, but the malf's bothered me.

[Zach S]

I think there are better options for a carry gun.... like Para's own C7.45 LDA :neener: I like mine. I'd rather have the CCW slide on it though...

I've looked at Para double stacks, while the P13 would suit me for winter carry, the fat grip is a bit hard to hide under a t shirt.

[PCRCCW]

How about a gun 7" long, Trad. nice DA/SA trigger, low profile great sights, alloy frame for 26 oz empty weight, match grade barrel..supported chamber, front and rear strap work, extended slide release, bevelled mag well, loaded chamber indicator, flat top slide with grooves running length wise, tough black finish, front and rear slide serrations, 15 rnds of 9mm, very very ergonomically correct and all for under 450$

Welcome to my Almost perfect CCW.......CZ PCRhttp://www.imageseek.com/hbeleather/gallery/albums/custom/P1010019.sized.jpg

Shoot well

[riddleofsteel]

That's funny. I kinda thought my G36 was the ultimate CCW weapon. After two decades of concealed carry it is the lightest, most comfortable, most powerful, most accurate and most reliable CCW weapon I have ever carried.

Of course YMMV.

http://www.yerfrockethellhound.com/dailycarry2.JPG

[sm]

Ala Dan is correct. Dan uses Sig 220 in 45ACP

Everyone is, individuals differ, type of concealment differ.
Personally I think 1911 style is, single stack only. I prefer to as close to original design, I carry a full size. I like Commander size, I like the LW commander which is probably the most overlooked option for CCW. I prefer 45 ACP. Heck I've been shooting a single stack 1911 style, commander size in 9x23...that is considered THE CCW by some noted smiths

Then again we have a fellow whom carries N frames CCW, that's his ticket.

We are all 'correct' if the gun fits, is reliable everytime with carry ammo in that gun and affords quick accurate hits.

[Bob R]

I am beginning to think I must be a little off-center. My 2 main carry guns are #1, a P14-45, and #2, a M57 S&W with a 4" tube.

I would probably feel lost with a little gun for carry.

But, in 2-3 years my main carry will be a Colt Delta Elite. It is having some work done, and it is going to take a while.


My para has been 100% reliable, never had a ftf, or ejection problem. It is time to replace the mag springs though.

bob

[Tamara]

"Ultimate" CCW gun? There's a bright future for you writing cover blurbs for Combat Handguns magazine...

Anyhow, on the subject of the Painted Ordnance P12: I liked mine just fine, and it ran like a top out of the box. I'm kinda over my fascination with tiny 1911's, since carrying a full-size is so easy, but this one seems a decent one. I don't think Para turns out any more lemons, on average, than the other big-name 1911 cloners, but the ones they do turn out are really, really defective. I've seen a couple where the best fix for the thing would've been to remove the sights and put them on a new gun.

Avoid the P10, though. I've never seen one that ran right.

It's just so much firepower, it blows my 10 shot .40S&W Walther P99 away!

"Firepower" is steel on target; the number of beans in the tank is something else altogether... ;)

[Soap]

I wouldn't worry about the "ULTIMATE" gun. Tools are not as important as skill sets. Thus, pick a gun that suits you and train like hell.

[Alan Fud]

I own a few para's and have to agree that they are less than reliable fresh out of the box and do require work before one can trust your life to them. Starting in the upper right and going around clockwise ...
http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f116.jpg
... is the TAC-FOUR (an LDA version of the P13.45), below that is the C12.45LDA (a double action only version of the P12.45), to the left of that is the C7.45LDA (which is a single stack version of the C12.45LDA) and above that is the C6.45LDA (a single stack and double action only version of the P10.45).

Once you confirm their reliability, the C12 and Tac-4 make good winter carry guns while the C6 & C7 make good summer carry guns -- the C6 being about the same size as a J-frame snubbie but offering seven rounds of .45ACP ...
http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f81.jpg
... C6.45LDA (above left) next to my S&W640 in .357magnum (above right).

[standingbear]

if you have the money,go with a sig 229.or the longer 226.ruger makes a dandy snubby in 38 for around 330.one smaller might be a makarov,lil more power than a 380.and cost around 150-180 bucks.we dont have concealed carry yet here(yet).i personally like the 357 sig,40 s/w and the 9x18 mak in a jacketed hollowpoint.357 mag in a wheelgun is one of my favorites.

[riddleofsteel]

The Riddle of Steel

"Steel is not strong, flesh is stronger. What is a sword compared to the hand that wields it?"

Phalsa Doom


The mind is the ultimate weapon