[MicroBalrog]

As you know, I'm trying to get an Israeli RKBA campaign off the ground.

However, a strange argument for gun control here the "arms leakage" theory, holding that if the amount of guns in society (especially unregistered ones) increased, they would flow too easily into the Territories.

Second to that is the claim that Israeli-Arabs (that is different from "Palestinians") should not have guns.

How do I stop this nonsense?

[Kaylee]

Well.... seems to me their argument is probably true. More unregulated weapons floating around in a warzone will almost inevitably lead to more weapons in the hands of The Enemy, whoever the enemy is.

The point however, seems to be moot. At least according to the news I read, the other side doesn't seem to have much trouble finding things to shoot, stab, explode, and otherwise send Israelis to God. Nor vice versa.

War sucks.
Unending, unchanging guerilla actions suck worse.


(something we should remember ourselves over here. Makes me think perhaps Lee did the right thing in surrendering rather than taking the war to the hills)

-K

[T.Stahl]

There are about 10,000,000 legally owned and registered, permit-requiring firearms in Germany and an estimated 20,000,000 illegal ones. Only a couple of hundred legal ones are stolen every year, a considerable percentage owned by authorities.

A few hundred legal guns becoming illegal guns every year is neglectable compared to a total of twenty million illegal guns. If it were one thousand guns stolen every year, it would take the pool of illegal guns two centuries to rise just one single percent.

Criminals and terrorists, whereever they are, have better and more reliable sources than legal gun owners.

[MicroBalrog]

There are about 10,000,000 legally owned and registered, permit-requiring firearms

How many of these are useful for self-defense/crime?

[T.Stahl]

Everything that has more than 7.5 Joules of muzzle energy or isn't a single-shot muzzle loader requires a permit. I guess a lot of the 10,000,000 are .22lr sport pistols or single-shot target rifles, but there are a lot of hunting rifles and shotguns, bolt-action service rifles and large caliber handguns, too.

[Mark Tyson]

It seems to me that the criminals and terrorists in Israel(and most other places) manage tot get their guns no matter what the legal situation is. Look at the situation in North Ireland.

[Ladybug]

What everyone else had said -- regardless of where you are or what the political situation is, the "bad guys" always find a way to get guns, all the more reason to make it easier for the "good guys" to have a way to defend themselves.

[Standing Wolf]

Well.... seems to me their argument is probably true. More unregulated weapons floating around in a warzone will almost inevitably lead to more weapons in the hands of The Enemy, whoever the enemy is.

I doubt it. Very few legitimate, law-abiding firearms owners are careless. I sincerely doubt the Islamic terrorist savages have any difficulty procuring arms of every size, shape, make, model, caliber, and condition, so the better armed the Israelis are, the safer they'll be.

[geekWithA.45]

Except instead of Palestinian terrorists getting the firearms, the boogeyman here is "criminals".

The thing to do is shift the debate, and not hold the tools responsible for the wielder's acts. Instead, focus on the issue of immediate, effective self defense.

The way you phrased the question, "how do I convince them?" reminds me of something someone very wise once told me, in response to a different context*

"Some people are so blind, so self righteously assured, so adept at twisting things in their own favor that they cannot ever be convinced that they are wrong."

I'm not certain that the folks you are describing fit that category, but if they are, it ain't gonna happen.



*(my highschool girlfriend's parents where literally conviced that I was evil, and I was trying to persuade them otherwise, and was seeking advice from a respected elder. Yes, they actually used the word "evil" to my face, with full sincerity. Anyone else ever have that dubious honor?)

[Mark Tyson]

my highschool girlfriend's parents where literally conviced that I was evil, and I was trying to persuade them otherwise, and was seeking advice from a respected elder. Yes, they actually used the word "evil" to my face, with full sincerity. Anyone else ever have that dubious honor?)

You should have taken that and run with it.

"Why now that you mention it, I do like to barbeque toddlers and torture kittens in my spare time."