Another piece from tonight's 20/20.


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Rally_Vincent
April 10, 2009, 04:35 PM
On ABC's own website.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=7298996&page=1

Watch the embedded video.

Look at how they dressed this kid up in a baggy t-shirt. I'm sure some of us know what a discipline carrying a firearm can be.... that includes making modifications to our fashion and lifestyle.

The alternative point (other than the political agenda) in that classroom was well made, I think (be prepared, training, etc) -- but, the kid was set up to fail from the get go.

UPDATED VIDEO LINK:

Pursuasion over force
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Join Date: 04-03-09
Posts: 28

They appear to have taken down the video. Good thing I swiped it and put it on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyIVpcNtZwQ

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Ned Kelly
April 10, 2009, 04:44 PM
Straw man stage production.

USAFNoDAk
April 10, 2009, 04:57 PM
They present this as being a fact that no one would be able to defend themselves with a gun. Well, how do a million people per year successfully defend themselves with guns? That factoid never seems to rear it's head in these anti gun media pieces.

MD_Willington
April 10, 2009, 05:08 PM
If trying to defend ones self from harm or death with a firearm will only lead to the intended victim losing their firearm,

Then why do LEO's carry firearms?

I mean, using that logic;

All LEOs will lose their firearm at some point and it will be used on them.

Duke of Doubt
April 10, 2009, 05:10 PM
Persuasion: "The controlled media has declared full scale war against us in the last few weeks."

And I am absolutely delighted, watching them fail.

It's like watching the face of a brat at the park as his ice cream falls off the cone and lands in a pile of dog turd. After you tap it in passing.

"WAAH! They still have guns!"

God help me, I do love it so.

maksim
April 10, 2009, 05:14 PM
Just wanted to bring it up here as well.

http://www.njgunforums.com/forums/20-20-tonight-on-abc-guns-in-america-t234.html

Everyone should watch, and encouraged to respond back to 20/20. We got to stand up for our rights and not be made an example out of.

pith43
April 10, 2009, 05:24 PM
Anyone who is paying for cable or satellite service is supporting these people.

Huh? My satellite service provider airs Guns and Ammo, The Best Defense, American Rifleman, Fox News, as well as MSNBC and Democracy Now. I see no agenda on the part of providers. Individual stations are another matter altogether.

gym
April 10, 2009, 05:33 PM
The outdoor channel is pretty good as far as guns go. They routinelly show how to's and quite a bit quality programming as far a handgun and long guns go. Also the Military channel, and once in a while the history channel .

Ned Kelly
April 10, 2009, 06:01 PM
For one its a well trained officer who has already rehearsed and repeatedly conducted the room sweep. So of course he is going to be twice as much on the ball as someone who barged in there without rehearsing.

Secondly the person with the gun is always put in the first row where the gunman can pretty well know where the person will be.

Straw man.

Do you think they were going to show the ones where the person took out the bad guy?

nope.

searcher451
April 10, 2009, 06:37 PM
Go here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOKK8mAkiUI

"If I only had a brain" is absolutely right.

mwsfarm
April 10, 2009, 06:52 PM
Why did they choose Good Friday to run the show? Most of the gun owners I know will be in church..............

Gunnerpalace
April 10, 2009, 07:02 PM
Everyone here is obviously unaware of the dangers of loaded revolvers lurking in Kindergarten toy boxes.....

Conqueror
April 10, 2009, 07:29 PM
They used a boy who had no firearms experience, and no inclination to carry concealed, and somehow that is supposed to fairly extrapolate to the CCW community? Total BS. They even stacked the odds in the shooter's favor by having everyone in the classroom look away from the door so he could enter unnoticed. What a total hit piece, complete garbage journalism.

Ned Kelly
April 10, 2009, 07:34 PM
One of the most important rules about guns are that every gun should be treated as if it were loaded. Simply because you check and double check a gun is not enough for you to place one in a toy box for children to find.

This propaganda stage piece has been done at the endangering of kids lives.

Would I take a pistol and check it 10 times and point it at one of you and dry fire it? Nope!

So how could ABC allow these kids to find these guns and dry fire them at each other without intervening shows they have utter disregard for the welfare of children to the point of endangering them.

ShadyScott999
April 10, 2009, 07:58 PM
Yeah, that was a nice touch. Hide it with the toys. That has to be one of if not the most bogus pieces of garbage I have ever seen. :banghead:

I would love to recreate that with anyone I could randomly pick at my local range on a Sat. Wonder if we could get John Stossel to do it as a rebuttal.

floods
April 10, 2009, 08:12 PM
There are some illogical statements in that video, but I DO agree with the premise that merely carrying a gun is not sufficient to stop an attack in any personal defense situation. Defensive handgun TRAINING is the most important controllable element, it's not just about having the means to protect yourself but being proficient enough to implement those means effectively.

az_imuth
April 10, 2009, 08:30 PM
I happen to agree with the classroom video. ALL of the students should have been carrying concealed. Or did I miss the point? :evil:

ScareyH22A
April 10, 2009, 08:34 PM
What was wrong with the video? Looked fun!

Ned Kelly
April 10, 2009, 08:37 PM
There are some illogical statements in that video, but I DO agree with the premise that merely carrying a gun is not sufficient to stop an attack in any personal defense situation. Defensive handgun TRAINING is the most important controllable element, it's not just about having the means to protect yourself but being proficient enough to implement those means effectively.

It's based mostly on opportunity and surprise. going head to head is always a risky proposition especially when the "bad guy" is a law enforcement combat instructor.

But say you were seated in the upper tears, You ducked when he entered so you could get your gun out and ready to either immediately exchange fire or wait til he is occupied in another direction.

What if you were in the restroom, or a hallway when the attack starts? You cannot tell me that having a gun would not give you an edge.

Whenever possible engage him from behind or from the side.

Auburn1992
April 10, 2009, 08:43 PM
Did they actually leave that revolver loaded?

flying_gage
April 10, 2009, 09:10 PM
That is sad and scary.

The Deer Hunter
April 10, 2009, 09:22 PM
Did they actually leave that revolver loaded?

Yeah I was wondering that too. Probably action proving blanks or fake guns.

But I can't believe the ones that looked down the barrel. Like how much sense do you have to be lacking to look down the barrel of a gun?

nc76
April 10, 2009, 09:28 PM
In regards to the classroom scenario, if it had been an off-duty cop carrying instead of the kid, they outcome would probably had been the same. They bad guy comes in and starts shooting without delay. Just b/c you are trained to handle that situation doesn't mean you are not just as vunerable to a surprise attack in a non-hostile setting. All that video showed me was that more people were not "killed" b/c the student had a gun. I am surprised they didn't stage it to where the student shot three of his classmates rather than not be able to unholster the gun

DAVIDSDIVAD
April 10, 2009, 09:45 PM
I like how they pick a kid who thinks he's ready for a situation because he plays airsoft :banghead:

This is their end all, be all of armed students.



Are they going to get some kid who likes Jackie Chan movies to fight a bunch of street toughs?


Give me a break, ABC.

kilo729
April 10, 2009, 11:28 PM
Let's give kids 10 minutes of instruction, then shove the gun in a holster and hide it underneath a shirt that hangs down to their knees. Then we'll surprise them with someone who knows what he's doing and has done it 20 times already!

Yeah, that'll show those crazies who think they can defend themselves!

DRYHUMOR
April 10, 2009, 11:32 PM
I'm watching this now, not very balanced. And certainly not unbiased. :barf:

On the upside, I'm now thinking about another gun purchase. :D

floods
April 11, 2009, 12:43 AM
There are some illogical statements in that video, but I DO agree with the premise that merely carrying a gun is not sufficient to stop an attack in any personal defense situation. Defensive handgun TRAINING is the most important controllable element, it's not just about having the means to protect yourself but being proficient enough to implement those means effectively.
It's based mostly on opportunity and surprise. going head to head is always a risky proposition especially when the "bad guy" is a law enforcement combat instructor.

But say you were seated in the upper tears, You ducked when he entered so you could get your gun out and ready to either immediately exchange fire or wait til he is occupied in another direction.

What if you were in the restroom, or a hallway when the attack starts? You cannot tell me that having a gun would not give you an edge.

Whenever possible engage him from behind or from the side.

Exactly, tactics, training, and mental preparedness are AT LEAST as important as actually carrying a gun. You can't just walk into a classroom and expect to get an A, you might be able to pull that off, but I'll bet that your chances of getting an A on the test will rise dramatically if you study, practice, and become proficient in the subject.

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