I am so sick of the term "high capacity"!


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ShooterMcGavin
April 11, 2009, 03:15 PM
Sales people in gun shops, ads all over gunbroker, and references everywhere incorrectly label magazines as "high capacity"!! It plays right into the gun-grabbers hands (using their terminology) and it annoys the heck out of me!! If the base plate of the magazine sits flush with the bottom of the grip, it is a standard capacity magazine!!!! Seventeen rounds in a G17 sounds like a lot, but that is still the standard capacity. The 33-round magazine sticking out of the bottom can certainly be called high capacity. A 30-round mag is what the AR-15 was designed to use; however, the Beta C-mags can certainly be called high capacity.

Am I the only one who corrects people when they claim to be selling a gun with a 15-round "high capacity" magazine at gun shows? ...or when someone shows me their new [semi-auto] assault rifle? No matter how nicely I try to correct the terminology, I still sometimes get an argument and then a look like "gee, you are a pedantic @$$hole, arent' you?". If you are one of these folks, say it silently to yourself a dozen times each day - standard capacity, STANDARD capacity.

I even see this crap being spewed here. If you claim to support the 2nd Amendment, please come over to this side of the fence :)

/rant-off

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Hungry Seagull
April 11, 2009, 03:37 PM
Well I can think of many other words over the years that made me irate to no end.

For example with computers... Intergrated Video! :barf:

Or Cars.... Onboard Engine Control System! Wait.. dont we have a human that does that already?

Or... questionable ammuntions... EXPLOSIVE HIGHSHOCK!!!! Huh? does that make my Brenneke Slugs less.... uber?

I can go on but can only smile and remember some of other words... like....


Cabbage Patch Dolls, Tickleme Elmo, Pokemon (***>?) etc....

Oh yes, Action toys that;s it.

I understand everything now....

Retail is dead, long live the Firearms industry that has been infused with laid off marketers and advertising executives seeking a safe haven in one of the last remaining bastions of American HIGH PAYING JOBS!

What they need to do is start handing out Xanax to anyone entering a Gun Store so that the large explosive flatuance of advertising does not pump thier blood pressure too high too fast.

harmonic
April 11, 2009, 03:42 PM
Am I the only one who corrects people when they claim to be selling a gun with a 15-round "high capacity" magazine at gun shows?

Probably not, but I don't waste my time. If you get bent everytime somebody incorrectly references a thing, any thing, you're going to spend most of your life generally "bent."

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:MKNuSwwKReIWAM:http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4018/hulkavl3.jpg

gym
April 11, 2009, 03:46 PM
Also Amazing, if there is just one word that is overused by our society for the lack of vocabulary is amazing, this gun is, this ammo is etc, everything is amazing

Hungry Seagull
April 11, 2009, 03:48 PM
Yes. Amazing! Aint it.

What is really upsetting to me is to buy into the hype, pay the money, take item home. Unwrapping the box to discover that some sort of third world Nation hired by Airsoft to make the item in the first place.

Duke of Doubt
April 11, 2009, 03:54 PM
Two days ago I went on a local shoot of vintage US weapons. Guess you could say we re-enacted Pork Chop Hill. Holy CRAP, that was fun. Multiple Garands, Carbines, 1911s, Colt and Smith Revolvers, and ... wait for it ... a Tommy gun. Now THAT is one high-capacity magazine. Can't deny. Yes, I always though calling the Beretta 15-rounder "high-capacity" was a bit silly. Stacked up next to an MP40 or M1928 mag it looks rather "low cap" indeed. But "standard capacity" sounds techy, political and defensive. Just refer to factory mags, or to mags by their capacity.

Eric F
April 11, 2009, 03:56 PM
high capacity has its place still, for example gor the gun gamers, there is limited 10 and open class which allows for high capacity magazines Why do you let something so trivial bother you?

Hungry Seagull
April 11, 2009, 03:57 PM
Well. Let's see.

AWB. High Capacity? Hm. Aha. Regulated Capacity! Yes thati's it!!!:neener:

SaxonPig
April 11, 2009, 04:02 PM
Anything beyond 8 is considered "high capacity" because this is what the 1911 carried and to many that gun is the standard by which all others are measured. The P35 was the original "high capacity" pistol and I think the term is properly applied given that it was higher than the 1911 which was considered "standard."

Yes, a 14 round magazine is "standard" for a S&W Model 59 as that is what the gun was designed to use. But, the Model 59 is a "high capacity" pistol when compared to the 1911 with its 8 round capacity so of course magazines for this model (and similar guns) would be seen as "high capacity."

Maybe it would just be easier to find something else to obsess over?

ShooterMcGavin
April 11, 2009, 04:19 PM
If you get bent everytime somebody incorrectly references a thing, any thing, you're going to spend most of your life generally "bent."
It's not all the time that I am annoyed by this, only when I hear or read the term being improperly used. Also, that mistake is entirely more annoying than other gramatical mistakes (I don't correct people when they call a magazine a "clip"). The reason is that perpetuating this misnomer is supporting the banning of the standard capacity magazine.

TxState101
April 11, 2009, 04:52 PM
High capacity is just another term I use when somebody's got more ammo than I do.

Lone_Gunman
April 11, 2009, 05:14 PM
Am I the only one who corrects people when they claim to be selling a gun with a 15-round "high capacity" magazine at gun shows?

There are more important things to get your panties in a wad over than this.l

wyocarp
April 11, 2009, 05:29 PM
I'm upset that we can't carry in National Parks like in and around Yellowstone where hiking can easily bring face to face with a Grizzly.

I'm upset that I can't go buy a new machine gun.

I'm upset that I can't buy a silencer for any gun I own without being made to jump through this and that and pay a hefty price.

I'm upset that we have people like the Brady Bunch (Campaign).

I'm still pissed off that Obama is the president of the United States. I concur with what I heard in a gun store in Gillette, Wyoming when some guys there said that they didn't have a president.

I'm upset that I can't legally shoot a wolf or a grizzly here in Wyoming and that I can't do so without a guide in Alaska.

I'm upset that I can't use a "select fire" switch on my ak.

etc. etc. etc.

"high capacity" doesn't bother me at all.

ShooterMcGavin
April 11, 2009, 05:39 PM
I'm upset that we can't carry in National Parks like in and around Yellowstone where hiking can easily bring face to face with a Grizzly.

I'm upset that I can't go buy a new machine gun.

I'm upset that I can't buy a silencer for any gun I own without being made to jump through this and that and pay a hefty price.

I'm upset that we have people like the Brady Bunch (Campaign).

I'm still pissed off that Obama is the president of the United States. I concur with what I heard in a gun store in Gillette, Wyoming when some guys there said that they didn't have a president.

I'm upset that I can't legally shoot a wolf or a grizzly here in Wyoming and that I can't do so without a guide in Alaska.

I'm upset that I can't use a "select fire" switch on my ak.

etc. etc. etc.

"high capacity" doesn't bother me at all.
Yep, that all pisses me off too.

However, those restrictions are all coming from the other side of the aisle. My annoyance is with the RKBA folks hurting ourselves using the gun-grabbers incorrect terms.

Ok, I get it. It seems I AM the only person who does not like the term "high capacity" in reference to the standard capacity magazines. I suppose I should not have brought it up; I will get over it.

...I'm upset that we can't carry in National Parks like in and around Yellowstone...
I thought it was now legal to carry in a National Park if it is also legal to carry in the state where the NP is located :confused: Am I mistaken or has this been recently changed?

jimmyraythomason
April 11, 2009, 05:57 PM
My father-in-law was there the 1st time and "fun" is not a word that he used to describe it.:(

ScareyH22A
April 11, 2009, 06:03 PM
At least you have an option of buy "high" capacity magazines!

wyocarp
April 11, 2009, 06:15 PM
I thought it was now legal to carry in a National Park if it is also legal to carry in the state where the NP is located Am I mistaken or has this been recently changed?

Yep, it was recently changed again. They found a judge to stop the change. I don't understand how that can be legal, but it has happened. There is a law that has been introduced that would change it back in a formal way. We should all be contacting our senators to vote for this change.

Lone_Gunman
April 11, 2009, 06:16 PM
I thought it was now legal to carry in a National Park if it is also legal to carry in the state where the NP is located Am I mistaken or has this been recently changed?

After Obama took office, an court injunction was filed, and the Bush decision to allow carry in parks was halted.

There is a law that has been introduced that would change it back in a formal way. We should all be contacting our senators to vote for this change

It is probably wasted effort to work on that bill, since Obama will veto it.

yooper_sjd
April 11, 2009, 07:16 PM
My hakim rifle standard mag is 10 rds. So if I modify a MG-13 WW2 mag which is 25 rd capacity of 8mm to fit my Hakim rifle, would that count as a High Capacity magazine????????????

Pack
April 11, 2009, 07:25 PM
If we really want to pick nits...

1) It's debatable whether the 1911 should be the "standard" for "standard capacity", and

2) Regarding the Browning "High Power", I've been told that "Grand Puissance" could possibly also translate as "Large Capacity" or "High Capacity", depending on how fancy one wanted to get vis-a-vis the French spoken in Belgium). This may or may not be verifiable fact, but I suppose it has the ring of truth to me becuase it seems more logical, given the characteristics of that weapon. It's also easy to see, from a hype/marketing/popular jargon standpoint, how "high power" might replace the more technical-sounding "high capacity" in the vernacular.

In any event, my nit to pick is that BOTH of the above weapons were predated by the Mauser C96, and it is therefore incorrect to refer to the "high power" as the first high capacity pistol.

servantofinari
April 11, 2009, 07:32 PM
High capacity is dependent on the round and weapon, to me, a 30 round .223 rem. mag is standard.A 30 round 9mm mag in a MP5 is standard. A 30 round 9mm mag in a Sig, high capacity. Personally the point at which the magazine passes a decent size/weight ratio is when it becomes high capacity.

Duke of Doubt
April 11, 2009, 07:53 PM
Pack: "Regarding the Browning "High Power", I've been told that "Grand Puissance" could possibly also translate as "Large Capacity" or "High Capacity", depending on how fancy one wanted to get vis-a-vis the French spoken in Belgium)."

Heh-heh. He sed, "Grand Puissance."

chibiker
April 11, 2009, 08:15 PM
Aw poo, I am too lazy to look it up. Didn't lawmakers (bleh) come up with a number that would determine if it was a hi-cap mag.... that way they knew which ones to ban?

I dunno about the mag fitting flush with the bottom thing, I mean I have 10, 15 and 17 round mags that fit flush in my Beretta. So if the 10 rounder is standard then what are the 15 and 17 rounders considered? Extendend? High? More than regular?
Or wait, is the 15 and 17 standard and the 10 is reduced capicity? I dunno, I don't care... I just ask for hi-caps when I want more bullets in my pistola.

SaxonPig
April 11, 2009, 08:36 PM
Pack- I'm not saying the 1911 SHOULD be the standard... it IS the standard.

Good or bad... right or wrong... that's the way it is.

ShooterMcGavin
April 11, 2009, 09:47 PM
Or wait, is the 15 and 17 standard and the 10 is reduced capicity?
That's correct.

Pack
April 11, 2009, 10:22 PM
Saxon,

I agree. I was being "that guy", tongue firmly in cheek.

I'm also the @sshat that always has a 10rd Wilson Combat "Bureaucrat" magazinze protruding from the bottom of his single-stack 1911s. Haha

The funny thing is, the 8rds we now enjoy in standard-length 1911 mags was, I would say, the standard in Europe for a long time, too (Luger P08; Walther P38, PP, and P5; HK P7M8; the outstanding Sig P210, and so on).

cleetus03
April 11, 2009, 10:59 PM
Um then what do you define a 33 round Glock 9mm magazine? Or a 20 round Mec-Gar mag for a Beretta or Taurus 92? I would assume high capacity is an accurate definition for any magazine larger then factory standard.

Also many people in the gun culture are still effected by the 1994 term pre ban post ban, yada yada terms. And the fact that some states still limit magazine capacity to 10 rds, so having a mag with more then 10 rds in that state now becomes a high cap mag. Hence the disclaimer on many online stores "High cap magazines cannot be shipped to the following states; New york, Hawaii, California, etc"

JohnBT
April 11, 2009, 11:00 PM
"Seventeen rounds in a G17 sounds like a lot"

Nah, it's just 9mm.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/okie.gif

Don't mind me, I just bought a new FN and a 15-round .45 mag is as hi-cap as anything can be.

John

KBT1911
April 11, 2009, 11:15 PM
Dang! And I bought that 1911 for its 7 round high capacity mag, too. I'm an idiot!

pgeleven
April 11, 2009, 11:22 PM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21BIttoTAvL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

so then this 25 round 1911 mag is what you would consider 'standard capacity'? i still have yet to see anyone at the range with one of these silly things

Dirtpile
April 12, 2009, 12:36 AM
Um then what do you define a 33 round Glock 9mm magazine? Or a 20 round Mec-Gar mag for a Beretta or Taurus 92? I would assume high capacity is an accurate definition for any magazine larger then factory standard.
That would be "extended" capacity.
I've all but given up on the war against the term "high capacity" myself. Out of all the Sheeple I've tried to correct over the past 6 years only a few have even listened let alone taken it seriously. Even salespeople at gun shops have treated me like a nut-job over it.
And pgeleven: That's probably because it weighs about ten pounds fully loaded. Not to mention most people would rather be seem riding a moped than be seen with that thing hanging off their 1911.

pgeleven
April 12, 2009, 06:27 AM
And pgeleven: That's probably because it weighs about ten pounds fully loaded. Not to mention most people would rather be seem riding a moped than be seen with that thing hanging off their 1911.

it makes about as much sense as half the junk that a large amount of us have been slapping onto our firearms. im very guilty of that remark... its a bit obnoxious, but still legal. i agree with the former posters that 'high capacity' defines it as being able to carry more than the factory supplied magazine intended it to. when the AWB was only allowing us to have 10 round mags maximum, high-cap mags allowed us to carry a few more, and is is a fitting name for them. maybe you just have a pet peeve you need to come to terms with.

ZO6Vettever
April 12, 2009, 08:46 AM
My 9mm comes two ways from the factory, 10 round mags or 16 round mags. They don't call the 16's hi cap but most of us do. I see what you're getting at Shooter but it's really like "chocking on fly crap".

MD_Willington
April 12, 2009, 07:20 PM
High capacity is just another term I use when somebody's got more ammo than I do.

LOL... love it !

9mmepiphany
April 12, 2009, 08:42 PM
A 30-round mag is what the AR-15 was designed to use

acually it was designed to use the 20 round mag...the AK was designed with the 30 rounds mag

Tinpig
April 12, 2009, 09:43 PM
[Quote:
A 30-round mag is what the AR-15 was designed to use
acually it was designed to use the 20 round mag...

Yup, in '68 the 20-round magazine was standard-issue in our M16s.

And yes, the Browning Hi Power double-stack 13 rd. mag was considered "high capacity" because the standard of the day was the 7 or 8 rd. single-stack (Luger, Mauser, Colt.)
The original French Army requirement was for Grande Rendement which meant "high yield." This became known as Grande Puissance "high power".

Size is relative. :)

cleetus03
April 12, 2009, 10:00 PM
Wikipedia seems to have a rather good take on the definition of High Cap Mag;

"The term high capacity magazine is a term used to describe magazines that exceed a certain "normal" capacity, whose definition is dependent upon context.This is a general term, the only definition given is that of the media and government legislators. Originally intended as an extended pistol which holds higher capacity than the “standard capacity”, a high capacity magazine is illegal in several jurisdictions."

"In many jurisdictions, magazine capacity of certain firearms is legally restricted, such as under the United States' Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which defined a magazine capable of holding more than ten rounds of ammunition as a high capacity ammunition feeding device. Currently, in the United States, six states limit magazine capacities."


"Many pistol and rifle magazines classified by such laws as "high capacity" are in fact the factory standard magazines originally designed for use with their respective firearms. Reduced capacity magazines, generally holding ten rounds, were created subsequently in response to enactment of the bans."

cleetus03
April 12, 2009, 10:43 PM
So basically the term can take a multitude of definitions depending on the context. Since America is going to unprecedented lengths in arming itself due to the political atmosphere, I think ShooterMcGavin is annoyed at the term being abused by both the gun control & firearm industry.

The gun control groups are using the def of "high cap" as a derogatory political term. Basically the "High capacity magazines of mass destruction", are one of the root causes of bloodshed in both America & Mexico. Thus we need to rid these evil magazines from our neighborhoods,lol.

On the other hand the firearm industry is abusing the term "high cap" for pure sales. For instant here's an example of just that from the online shop;http://www.thecountryshed.com/high_capacity_mags.htm

"Due to recent political events and speculation, high capacity mags are in high demand. We make every attempt to keep BUY buttons current and most high capacity mags are subject to quantities on hand. Get yours while supplies last!!!"


And now that I have wasted 45 minutes of my life trying to learn, find and post the definition of High capacity Mag, I am more confused, enlightened, and bewildered on what possesed me to even do so?:confused:

mp510
April 12, 2009, 11:20 PM
I have no problem with the term high capacity. It connotates that a magazine holds a lot of bullets- whis is what even those standard cap magazines you describe do.

The 17 rounds that a Glock 17 holds is quite a few more than the 5 or 6 rounds traditionally held in revolvers, the 7 round mag capacity of the 1911, or the 8 round mag capacity of the Smith 39 9mm.

The 30 rounds that an AR or AK mag holds- well, when I hold 30 rounds in my hand, I have a feeling that I'm holding quite a few rounds. I know my wallet dosen't disagree.

ShooterMcGavin
April 12, 2009, 11:41 PM
I think ShooterMcGavin is annoyed at the term being abused by both the gun control & firearm industry.
Yes. Thank you.

I am NOT talking about comparing an 8-round 1911 to a 17-round G17. I'm talking about comparing a 17-round G17 to a 10-round G17. Maybe I was previously unclear. It is NOT the case that the 10-round mag for the G17 is the standard and the 17-round is the "high" capacity. Instead, the 10-rounder is the butchered magazine (ok, I'd be fine using the term "restricted capacity") and the 17-round mag is the standard.

The 17 rounds that a Glock 17 holds is quite a few more than the 5 or 6 rounds traditionally held in revolvers, the 7 round mag capacity of the 1911, or the 8 round mag capacity of the Smith 39 9mm.
Ok, then why not call a 5-shot revolver "high capacity", since it holds a lot more ammo than a derringer, a SxS shotgun, or an OU shotgun?

I am annoyed that there exists anything OTHER than "high capacity" magazines for guns. There is no reason I want the option to buy a 10-round, restricted-magazine for any fullsize pistol and no district should be required to live under that limit. The term "high capacity" just gives the grabbers a platform. "why would anyone need 'HIGH' capacity magazines - the 'standard' 10 is good enough".

mp510
April 13, 2009, 12:04 AM
I have no problem with hi cap mags, just as I have no problem with the term. I interpret it as more descriptive than anything else- even though some folks have politicized it with a negative connotation (which is what I believe your problem is related to).

youngda9
April 13, 2009, 01:13 AM
amazing so much time wasted on discussing this :) Thought everything was pretty well understood that there are no set lines here...

cleetus03
April 13, 2009, 01:19 AM
Thought everything was pretty well understood that there are no set lines here...


youngda9, *** are you talkin about? I don't understand no set lines here.....?

yooper_sjd
June 23, 2009, 05:30 PM
Just to be "that guy"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If we really want to pick nits...

1) It's debatable whether the 1911 should be the "standard" for "standard capacity", and

2) Regarding the Browning "High Power", I've been told that "Grand Puissance" could possibly also translate as "Large Capacity" or "High Capacity", depending on how fancy one wanted to get vis-a-vis the French spoken in Belgium). This may or may not be verifiable fact, but I suppose it has the ring of truth to me becuase it seems more logical, given the characteristics of that weapon. It's also easy to see, from a hype/marketing/popular jargon standpoint, how "high power" might replace the more technical-sounding "high capacity" in the vernacular.

In any event, my nit to pick is that BOTH of the above weapons were predated by the Mauser C96, and it is therefore incorrect to refer to the "high power" as the first high capacity pistol.


I guess my wheel barrow I converted to hook to my Hakim would extreme capacity? guess i could call extreme hakim :D

CoRoMo
June 23, 2009, 05:40 PM
If the 12rd magazine of my P11 is hi-capacity, then the 19rd mag of the XDm9
is super-duper-mega-mystical-extreme-capacity.:cool:

kwelz
June 23, 2009, 06:16 PM
Whatever the gun is made for is standard capacity in my book. 7-8 rounds for a standard 1911, 17 rounds for a Glock 17 or M&P 9mm, 20 or 30 rounds for an AR, etc. Anything above that is High capacity, anything under that is Low capacity.

Not a hard concept for us. Sadly the same is not true of the Gun grabbers.

Quiet
June 23, 2009, 11:04 PM
The terms "standard capacity" and "high capacity" varies depending on what firearm is being described.

benEzra
June 24, 2009, 12:00 AM
there is limited 10 and open class which allows for high capacity magazines
And those class names were created during the Clinton gun ban, which defined 11-17 round magazines as "high capacity." Limited 10 was created to allow people who couldn't afford standard mags at Clinton prices to have a class they could compete in. And yes, there are "high capacity" magazines in some of the gun games, like 20+ round Beretta magazines. But I agree with the OP that a 15 round magazine in a Glock 19 is not high capacity, it is standard capacity; a 33 round Glock 18 mag in a G19 would indeed be "high capacity."

pgeleven, that would be a "high capacity" magazine because it is way more than the standard capacity for that firearm. On the other hand, a 30-round magazine for an AR is not "high capacity", but a 40-rounder or a beta-C mag would be.

"Standard capacity" is what the gun was made for. 15 rounds in a G19 is standard capacity, and 10 rounds is reduced capacity, as someone pointed out above.

2RCO
June 24, 2009, 12:26 AM
I honestly think we as Gun JEEENNYUSSES (geniuses for you spelling nit pickers) whine like uber nerds about things like the use of the term High Cap and Clip vs. Mag and try to correct everyone all the time on their terminlogy we just look like jerks.

Folks seriously to an anti more than a single shot is High Cap. So it isn't helping or hurting our cause.

I'll correct someone on something dangerous or if they ask for the proper terminology. I really wonder how many friends some folks here can keep around with the arrogant know it all attitudes that seem to be propagated. I am not perfect by the way. But we need to lighten up on some things.

I also completely concur with Wyocarp.

Take it easy on the Non Experts out there...By the way most of us aren't Experts...Those who know the most generally know there is alot they don't know.

TexasRifleman
June 24, 2009, 12:35 AM
Whatever the gun is made for is standard capacity in my book.

It really is that simple isn't it? Not sure why all the fuss.

ShooterMcGavin
June 24, 2009, 03:26 AM
Whatever the gun is made for is standard capacity in my book. 7-8 rounds for a standard 1911, 17 rounds for a Glock 17 or M&P 9mm, 20 or 30 rounds for an AR, etc. Anything above that is High capacity, anything under that is Low capacity.

Not a hard concept for us. Sadly the same is not true of the Gun grabbers.
EXACTLY my point. I am mainly annoyed that a 15 round mag (for whatever gun) is called "high capacity" only because there is another mag that is limited to 10 rounds.

candr44
June 24, 2009, 05:34 PM
This thread has given me something to really be angry and upset about! Now I'll be up all night worrying about the proper use of the term high capacity!

At the next gun show I'm going to start ranting on about the proper use of the term high capacity. I also started writing my angry ranting treatise on the subject and will distribute it to all the gun stores, shooting ranges, gun shows, and my congressman. I'm with you on this! The world doesn't need problems like this and I WILL STAMP THIS PROBLEM OUT!!

Although, right now it will have to wait. The doctor says its time for my medication and bed time.

TexasRifleman
June 24, 2009, 06:18 PM
The world doesn't need problems like this and I WILL STAMP THIS PROBLEM OUT!!

You think it's not serious but I promise you, it is. The last ban was implemented on exactly that premise, that somehow the normal capacity of a gun was too much, so the term "high capacity" was coined to artificially place limits on it.

If you're OK with allowing them to set the rules and definitions, don't be surprised with the outcome.

candr44
June 24, 2009, 06:48 PM
You think it's not serious but I promise you, it is.

It should be taken seriously when politicians are using the term high capacity but the angry face, title of the thread, and people he is complaining to makes me think the original poster takes it way too seriously. There are more important problems in the world to get angry about than gun owners using improper english.

Coming off like your upset and angry over improper english in a gun forum tends to make gun owners look like they are easily angered ranting lunatics. Also, does anyone really think just because the poster doesn't like the improper use of the term high capacity that its going to stop being used improperly? If its such a serious problem, his complaint would be better directed at politicians or taken up by the NRA.

I've waisted enough time with this thread and it can fade to oblivion like all the rest. Threads fading to oblivion also makes the original posters complaining here pointless.

bigione
June 24, 2009, 07:44 PM
To add to the list. I hate the media stories refering to high velocity rifles since I can't find anyone selling a low velocity rifle.

TexasRifleman
June 24, 2009, 09:15 PM
There are more important problems in the world to get angry about than gun owners using improper english.

If we agree that the politicians should not use the word, then we should not use it either.

If we use the term ourselves we are in no position to complain when the media or politicians do.

When we as shooters start using terms like "assault weapons", "High Capacity Magazines" etc all we do is enforce the belief that these guns and magazines are somehow "different" and need to be called out in special ways. They are not, so we should not encourage that thinking.

That's why it matters.

Yes, it's a small thing, but small things can come back to bite you. Ask Jim Zumbo :)

inSight-NEO
June 24, 2009, 09:30 PM
The reason is that perpetuating this misnomer is supporting the banning of the standard capacity magazine.

This I understand as the terms "standard" or "high capacity" take on different meanings when speaking of various makes/models of projectile weaponry. Now, if some gun owners tend to blur the line between these two phrases, I can let that slide.

Now, as far as many politicians are concerned, "high capacity" is a great phrase upon which to hang their often grossly misguided and misinformed agendas. This, I have a true problem with.

Lou McGopher
June 25, 2009, 01:19 PM
Standard capacity: 650 rds.

http://i40.tinypic.com/b4gdhy.jpg

Mr. Creosote
June 25, 2009, 01:24 PM
So my .45 came with a 7 round mag. I bought some 8 roung mags. Can I call them high capicity???? ;)

84B20
June 25, 2009, 02:02 PM
Quote:
I thought it was now legal to carry in a National Park if it is also legal to carry in the state where the NP is located Am I mistaken or has this been recently changed?

Yep, it was recently changed again. They found a judge to stop the change. I don't understand how that can be legal, but it has happened. There is a law that has been introduced that would change it back in a formal way. We should all be contacting our senators to vote for this change.

Careful, the law doesn't go into affect until 2010, February, I think.

fastbolt
June 25, 2009, 03:23 PM
Well, some folks do seem to get a bit wrapped up around the axle when certain words and phrases are used ... ;)

Granted, words mean things, and they can be used to influence the thoughts of others. History shows that words can obviously have a powerful effect on people.


The whole 'high capacity' magazine thing, though?

I remember when we were first told we were going to stop carrying issued and personally-owned revolvers and have to carry 9mm pistols. This was back around '89/90, before the whole 'high capacity feeding device' legislation occurred here in CA.

The S&W 9mm pistols we were being issued were casually referred to as 'high capacity' 9mm pistols by the firearms training staff and the folks receiving them ... even though this was several years before the federal ban and the state high capacity feeding device legislation. The standard capacity of the magazines was considered to be high capacity.

Why did we consider the S&W 59 and Browning HP 35 pistols to be 'high capacity'? Well, probably because they held more rounds than the revolvers, Colt Government Models & Commanders, S&W 39/X39's and the occasional Walther P38 that a lot of cops owned and carried. ;)

Remember the 20-rd factory magazines for the S&W 9mm pistols, made for both the 59 & 69 series? They were simply referred to as extended capacity magazines, or more simply as "20-rd magazines" ... because they held more rounds than the standard high capacity magazines.

Some of the folks who carried a Browning HP 35 as plainclothes or off-duty weapons often said they liked the Browning for its 'high capacity magazine' back then, too. ;) Again, years before anyone even thought about limiting the capacity of magazines.

In the world of 6-shot revolvers and 7-9rd 9mm pistol magazines, the Browning and S&W 59 Series pistols were 'high capacity'.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the 'high capacity' 10-rd extended magazines for the 1911's ...

I thought there were something like 6 states with their own legislation identifying and controlling high capacity magazines, feeding devices, etc. That being the case, their legislation sets the legal definition for those states.

Everything else becomes an exercise in semantics.

hanyyosf
November 26, 2011, 01:39 PM
by the way where is the best high capacity magazine 33 round or 21 round for s&w 469
& 3.5" barrel
& polymer grips ??

VT Deer Hunter
November 26, 2011, 01:43 PM
I dont like it either but i dont think much of it.

mljdeckard
November 26, 2011, 01:56 PM
Yes and no.

I do actually own high-capacity magazines. My SKS came with a fixed 10-rd magazine, and I modified it to take a 20-rd magazine. That is not standard. The M-16 was originally designed to use a 20-rd magazine, and was later upped to 30. I have a standard 1911, which was designed to take a 7-rd mag, I use 8-rd mags. And I have a Para 1911 that takes 14-rd mags. I don't see how anyone can call that standard capacity.

But yes, It is gibberish to place any arbitrary standards on what is 'too many' rounds. Most of these antis who want capacity limits have no inkling that the early saddle rifles chambered in pistol cartridges could hold as many as *gasp* 18 rounds. They have this idea that it is a recent development, this idea that you want a gun to hold as many shots as possible so you don't have to reload as often. I remember many years ago, Dennis Miller joking on SNL; "This week, California's fifteen round magazine limit was approved by every sixteenth person. Like, nine rounds is ok, but when you hit ten, magically it is an unacceptable number. Like, if a psycho shooter has to reload every ten rounds, it would be easier to stop him than if he had 20 or 30.

Robert
November 26, 2011, 02:01 PM
by the way where is the best high capacity magazine 33 round or 21 round for s&w 469
& 3.5" barrel
& polymer grips ??
You will have better luck if you start a new thread in the correct forum, like say here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/forumdisplay.php?f=33 rather than dragging up an somewhat unrelated 2 year old thread.

hanyyosf
November 26, 2011, 02:27 PM
Thank u for the advice i did

Robert
November 26, 2011, 02:32 PM
No worries, we all start somewhere. Welcome and enjoy!

P5 Guy
November 26, 2011, 03:12 PM
There are three size magazines. Reduced Capacity, Full Capacity and Extended Capacity.

ATBackPackin
November 26, 2011, 03:13 PM
I know this is an old thread but it is still pertinent. Personally I use three terms to describe magazines:
1) Standard capacity mags = The magazine sold with gun without outside influence on the manufacturer.
2) Reduced capacity mags = Anything with less capacity than original.
3) Extended capacity mags = Anything with more capacity than original.

I don't like the term "high capacity". It was a term introduced by the anti's because it sounds more sinister than extended capacity. It also doesn't necessarily describe it accurately. How can a 12 round mag and a 100 round mag both be called "high capacity"? So I use the three terms I described above. Do I correct others? Sometimes. If it is someone who is concerned about saying it the correct way. Others want it to sound more sinister and nothing I could say would change that.

This is just one man's opinion.

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