why deal with the manufacturer for small problems?


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Eric F
April 11, 2009, 05:34 PM
I have been here for a while and have seen countless threads where something goes wrong with a gun and folks send it bact to the manufactuere for repair, most of the time costing them shipping and paperwork to get the gun back. Why? Why not just take it to a local gun smith? I can understand big problems like action is jammed up so tight you cant move it, but come on the front sight falls off and you want to send it back to the factory? There is a bur in the chamber, so what take it to a local gun smith and have it debured.

So for small problems why do folks send a gun back to the factory for weeks when they can drop in a lot of cases $20 or less for a quick fix?

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Lone_Gunman
April 11, 2009, 05:45 PM
Here are a few reasons:

No reputable gun smith nearby.

Shipping back to factory is usually free.

I don't know what paper work you are talking about. The factory can ship the gun straight back to the owner, no paperwork involved.

Having someone other than the factory work on your gun can invalidate the warranty.

Eric F
April 11, 2009, 05:51 PM
I don't know what paper work you are talking about. The factory can ship the gun straight back to the owner, no paperwork involved.
not the case in Va

Lone_Gunman
April 11, 2009, 05:55 PM
What state law do you have in Virginia that prevents a manufacturer from shipping the gun directly back to the individual after repair?

Eric F
April 11, 2009, 06:03 PM
I dont have the direct law quote but basicaly if the gun gets shipped when it is returned you can pick it up directly in person to avoid paper work but if it is shipped it has to go to a ffl to fill out the state form again. Its not a federal thing its a state law. My brother just had this done for a problem with his fnp-9-c

Oro
April 11, 2009, 06:07 PM
folks send it bact to the manufactuere for repair, most of the time costing them shipping and paperwork to get the gun back.


As mentioned, this isn't the case in the US. A gun can be shipped to the manufacturer for repair and back to the owner without paperwork, and at the manufacturer's cost (at least from the reputable ones). You say VA is different, but all the laws are on-line and readily available. You can't find or point to one? I would say your brother was likely dealing with something out of warranty or with a manufacturer who didn't want to own up to their warranty claims. Also, if the manufacturer was out of VA, VA can not regulate shipment and commerce to them - so I doubt that law exists. There is a fundamental legal difference in intrastate (within one state) and interstate (between one state and another or several).

Also, if you bought a new car, and suddenly the turn signals stop working (or something like that), do you take it to a small mechanic on your dime or to the dealer that sold it?

Manufacturers have a moral (and in most cases legal) requirement to deliver a product that works as advertised. If a new product arrives that doesn't, they have the moral responsibility to fix it. By doing this you also point out to them their quality control failures and hopefully it will be corrected in the future for other buyers.

yooper_sjd
April 11, 2009, 06:13 PM
that be why virginia is a common wealth and not a state. The rights of the average citizen are ment to be trampled on there. One of the main reasons I got out of that state when I retired from the Navy as fast as my car would let me!

Eric F
April 11, 2009, 06:31 PM
54.1-4200. Definitions.

For the purpose of this chapter, unless the context requires a different meaning:

"Dealer in firearms" means (i) any person, firm, partnership, or corporation engaged in the business of selling, trading or transferring firearms at wholesale or retail; (ii) any person, firm, partnership, or corporation engaged in the business of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms; or (iii) any person, firm, partnership, or corporation that is a pawnbroker.
This even though vague means a gun manufacturer is a dealer in fire arms. And therefore


18.2-308.2:2. Criminal history record information check required for the transfer of certain firearms. aplies so says the ffl sitting here at work with me, the police dept next door and has been my past experience in a rifle I had to return for a head space problem.

The Deer Hunter
April 11, 2009, 06:50 PM
Why? Why not just take it to a local gun smith? I can understand big problems like action is jammed up so tight you cant move it, but come on the front sight falls off and you want to send it back to the factory? There is a bur in the chamber, so what take it to a local gun smith and have it debured.

There are not a lot of gun smiths around.

Oro
April 11, 2009, 07:24 PM
This even though vague means a gun manufacturer is a dealer in fire arms. And therefore

Uh, no it doesn't. There are different kinds of FFL's and a manufacturer is not a "dealer" - they are a manufacturer.

I think you just have received some very poor advice or haven't looked hard into the issue. I know plenty of 01, 02, and 03 FFL's who aren't familiar with the operations of an 07 type. Quite specifically, see this section from the ATF's FAQs:

(C4) Does an importer or manufacturer of firearms also need a dealer's license? [Back]

No, as long as the importer or manufacturer is engaged in the business of dealing in firearms at the licensed premises in the same type of firearms authorized by the importer’s or manufacturer’s license.

At this point, I have to think you are just reading random things and making them fit your thesis instead of researching the laws...

18.2-308.2:2. Criminal history record information check required for the transfer of certain firearms.

This quote is pretty meaningless, you've just copied a paragraph header w/o any text. I have met plenty of 01, 02, and 03 FFL's who don't know what the other is required to do or capable of doing. But it certainly sounds like the one "sitting next" to you is also one of the less informed ones, too.:

(I3) Is an ATF Form 4473 required when a gunsmith returns a repaired firearm? [Back]

No, provided the firearm is returned to the person from whom it was received.

This is a confusing subject to be sure, but just making assumptions about how firearms are transferred and how different transactions are handled is not a sound way to go about it. Firearms can be returned directly to their manufacturer for repair or service, and returned to the owner.

Eric F
April 11, 2009, 08:11 PM
my quotes are right off the va state police site. but as usual there is almost always some one here that wants to be confrontational and claim they know more than some one else. Despite personal experiences printed laws and first hand knowledable people. And ORO living in WA I am sure your laws there are diffrent than they are in VA as far as the state goes.

MMCSRET
April 11, 2009, 08:16 PM
I'm with Eric on this one; I have experienced minor problems that he described, burr, sight, cracked grip panel, rough chamber in a rifle, extremely short throat in a 308. I have never sent a gun in for warranty work, most I do myself. I did pay to have the throat reamed, 20 bucks, I ordered a new set of grips. My Ruger BlackHawk 45/45 Convertible had widely varied chamber throats, all way too small on both cylinders, I bought the tooling from Brownells, 120 bucks, and reamed the throats myself, good job, pat on back.

Lone_Gunman
April 11, 2009, 08:16 PM
Eric, I agree with you (assuming the law you quoted is correct), that Virginia considers manufacturers to be "dealers" regardless of the type FFL they have or what the ATF thinks. Certainly, a manufacturer sells guns wholesale to its distributors, and that appears to be all it takes for Virginia to consider them dealers.

JohnBT
April 11, 2009, 08:47 PM
"not the case in Va"

I was born in Virginia 58 years ago and I have had guns shipped to my house from the manufacturer after warranty repairs.

My father is 87, a former State Trooper and still a stickler for honesty, and he has had guns shipped to his house after a warranty repair. The last time, the UPS truck left a sticker on the door and he had to go to the depot and sign for the gun. They knew what it was, it was locked in the vault because it was a $3k shotgun with insurance on it.

We've never filled out any 4473s for any of them.

You shouldn't be quoting little pieces of the Code of Virginia out of context without understanding all of it.

John

Eric F
April 11, 2009, 08:55 PM
I just quoted 18.2-308.2:2. for simplicity, its 3 pages long. I didnt think it was approperiate to quote the whole thing.

Again this was the refrence I was told was correct. Both My brother and I have run into this issue here in Va. The ffl that I work with regularly receiver worked on guns for various customers. I did not pay for shipping for my transaction but I do know some folks that did have to pay for theirs. This thread has switched off topic for what it was ment for and I respectfuly have asked it to be closed.

Jeff White
April 11, 2009, 09:11 PM
Closed at OPs request.

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