Hot loaded .45 acp's


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LightningMan
April 11, 2009, 09:02 PM
Hello, I would like to load some HOT! .45 acp rounds for a carbine rifle (not going to be used in a pistol) Just want to use some FMJ 230 bullets and push them at +P+ levels or better if thats possable, so does anyone have some good loads. Any load data would be helpful but if you have some data usings powders I already have on hand would be better yet. I have; AA#5, Blue Dot, Red Dot, 2400, H110 & TrueBlue, if none of these will do, I can get what's needed. Thanks in advance, LM.
PS. My current load is just the top listed load from Modern Reloading by Richard Lee, using AA#5, 8.7grs. with 230gr hardball.

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moooose102
April 11, 2009, 10:24 PM
if you are going to use them in a carbine, you may want to go to the slowest burning powder listed. with the longer barrel, it will give the slower burning powder time to burn and put more pressure on the bullet. i loaded up some loads that were to hot for my pistol, they were 230g hornady xtp's with 11.3 g of AA#7. the pressure signs were ok, but they had a lot of recoil. i also tried some with a higHer dose of AA#7, but the primes came out FLAT! way to much pressure! this was out of a 3.5" barrel. how this would work out in your gun, i do not know. the best thing i have found for +P+ loads is to work up SLOWLY in 0.1 grain increments at a time. i make up 5 of each and test them. the loads i mentioned were something i did when i was first starting out. when i was dumb and not so young. now, i pretty much stick to sugested loads. mostly because i dont like haveing the cra9 scared out of me. if you ever get a really high pressure spike, you will know it instantly. if you are lucky enough to come out of it unhurt, it ill definitly make you think twice about retuning to dangerland. BEFORE YOU START OVER PRESSURING YOUR GUN, YOU SHOULD FIND OUT HOW MUCH PRESSURE THE ACTION WILL TAKE! if it will not take much more than a standard load gives, you do not want to start loading hot loads in it! you WILL GET HURT! BE CAREFUL, WORK THEM UP SLOWLY! MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND HIGH PRESSURE SIGNS!

robctwo
April 12, 2009, 12:40 AM
You need to use your slowest powders. Look up the max loads for the listed powders and start there. I like Universal Clays, Longshot and HS6 for max power with less pressure. I load right at max for bowling pins with 230 fmj and Universal. Once you have loaded the max, and if that doesn't float your boat, some folks have worked up by 1/10 of a grain at a time. I don't, and very few folks think it's a good idea. You are going to get better performance out of your carbine than you will out of a pistol.

Having said that, I got a '92 Winchester Puma in 45 Colt. There are loads listed for that gun which are substantially above what anyone would shoot out of a regular revolver. There are Blackhawk/ TC loads, and other "rifle" loads which will put a dent in your shoulder. I have worked up some good ones using existing data. The '92 had a very solid action. The 45 Colt has a lot more room in the cartridge than the 45ACP, especially when using the 230 gr bullets.

jjohnson
April 12, 2009, 08:45 AM
Hey, if you're intending to load for a Marlin Camp45, a couple of words of advice: Replace your recoil buffer if it's "stock," and replace your recoil spring, too.:scrutiny:

Neither factory part is worth keeping. Your stock recoil buffer doesn't last long, and is fragile - there are aftermarket buffers to be had that are much better, (google it) and the heaviest Wolff spring should be installed - I think that's 26 pounds. If you don't replace both and are shooting hot .45 loads, your carbine will likely beat itself to death. Being a blowback design, the only thing holding things together is bolt mass and spring tension.

I have the Marlin - and even with the heavy spring it will cycle the lightest loads - which will tell you something. On the other hand, I have a custom bolt gun in .45ACP, based on a WWI vintage Enfield, that I could load up almost to elephant gun pressure levels - and I ***NEVER*** get the Enfield's ammo intermixed (nickel casings only for ease of identification).

I'm not sure how much good you will get out of using slower powders if you're talking about the Marlin carbine. Since it's blowback, that thing may (or may not) be cycling open before you get any benefit. You'll have to do some testing to make that determination. Good luck and don't do anything dangerous, huh?

Beagle-zebub
April 12, 2009, 08:57 AM
I'm not sure how much good you will get out of using slower powders if you're talking about the Marlin carbine. Since it's blowback, that thing may (or may not) be cycling open before you get any benefit.

In that event, would there be a bunch of flash and hot gasses coming out of the action?

45ACPUSER
April 12, 2009, 09:01 AM
You ought to consider sticking with known data not going off the reservation.:confused:
There is not that much gain :banghead:.....but a whole lot of damage potential to the gun or guns....Why not look at 45 Super Data and spring your gun for that ?

Marlin 45 carbine
April 12, 2009, 09:06 AM
agree with jjohnson - if a Marlin Camp you definitely need the heavy spring and buffer.
I load +P 185 Golden Sabre slugs with good results in my Camp useing Power Pistol.

LightningMan
April 12, 2009, 10:17 AM
Thanks for the replies so far. BTW its not a Marlin Camp, but a Auto Ordnance GI Tommy Gun. The thing feels like its built like a tank and heavy, so I'm thinking it can handle more than the average .45 auto pistol ever could. If I can up the performance of the .45 acp for this gun "Great" if not, "So be it" I know they make HOT! loaded 9mm ammo for UZI's and such, which are not to be shot out of a pistol, so I'm thinking there should be loads like that for the .45 acp. Hope this helps more with the original question. LM

rcmodel
April 12, 2009, 10:59 AM
so I'm thinking it can handle more than the average .45 auto pistol ever could.You are thinking wrong.

The weakest link in the chain is the brass case.

If it lets go, your handle Lighteningman, will be very appropriate!

You would do well to stick with tested load data for the .45 ACP in the Thompson.
Just because it weighs 12 pounds doesn't make it a strong gun by any means.

rc

Deer Hunter
April 12, 2009, 11:06 AM
A 230 grain .45 ACP load can be pushed at 1000 fps fairly easily. It can be done and done safely. The brass will handle it and most modern guns will easily handle it.

LightningMan
April 12, 2009, 12:07 PM
I found what I'm looking for here; http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=45%20ACP%20+P&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
Looks like Power Pistol is the powder I want. Thanks for your replys. LM

Walkalong
April 12, 2009, 06:59 PM
AA #5 and True Blue are the best to try of the powders you have, and True Blue should out do AA #5 in the long barrel. I still do not suggest going over max loads in manuals, no matter what you shoot them in. If you do, you are in uncharted waters and on your own. :)

ants
April 12, 2009, 07:28 PM
The problem with Handloads.com is the mix of reliable/safe data with unreliable/unsafe data. The reliable data is manufacturer's data, and it is identified. But data from safe and experienced reloaders is mixed with data from irresponsible buttheads. The latter are never distinguished from the former.
Some of it is good, some of it is bad, and you don't know which is which.

Notice that very little 'guest' data is accompanied by MAP pressure numbers? It's because they don't have a clue.

Hodgdon, VihtaVuori, Alliant and other manufacturers list data for 230g bullets easily exceeding 900 fps. That will work GREAT in your Thompson. Even the Lyman and Lee manuals list data for both jacketed and lead bullets over 900fps.

No need for me to take a chance on handloads.com.

LightningMan
April 12, 2009, 07:50 PM
Here's another list of hot .45's for Ruger's only;
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=41
but don't know if they would be safe in a Auto Ordnance Tommy Gun. So unless I can get information reguarding using loads like these, I'm not going to try. LM

Marlin 45 carbine
April 12, 2009, 07:55 PM
the data listed for PP and 185gr GS is what I use - minus .1 gr, I have a dipper for 9 grs PP.
this shoots very well from my Camp and really 'whacks' steel plates at 100.
I do have the heavy spring and good buffer installed though.

Casefull
April 12, 2009, 11:45 PM
put in 10g of 800x or 9g of unique with 185s and you will be fine.

ArchAngelCD
April 13, 2009, 03:06 AM
Considering AA#5 was made specifically for the .45 Auto it will probably be the best powder you have for "hot" .45 Auto loads. I usually use W231 for my .45 Auto rounds but did use AA#5 a while back. My son didn't like the ammo because he said it was "too hot" so you will probably like the results you get.

I've found AA#5 to be a very accurate powder in the .45 Auto and when making .38 Special +P rounds. A MAX charge of AA#5 will give you well over 900 fps with a 230gr FMJ bullet from a 5" barrel.

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