Wild west


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largecaliber
April 12, 2009, 12:57 PM
I have heard many people (anti's) claiming we're headed back to the wild west days. Let me give you some numbers from one study. This may seem hard to believe but from the years of 1870 to 1885 in Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City and Caldwell which were supposedly the worst of the cow towns in Kansas there were actually only 45 murders recorded which equates to 1 murder per 100,000 people per year. Now let's move forward to 2007. In just this one year in D.C. there was 183 murders equaling 31 murders per 100,000. In New York there were 494 murders equaling 6 murders per 100,000. In Baltimore there were 281 murders equaling 45 murders per 100,000 and in Newark there were 104 murders equailing 37 murders per 100,000 people. In my opinion heading back to the wild west days would be a huge improvement in our society. Could it be possible that an armed society truly makes for a safer society? It seemed to work back then.

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wyocarp
April 12, 2009, 01:02 PM
Yeah, it's too bad ABC couldn't do a program on this.

gbran
April 12, 2009, 01:27 PM
While I can't cite stats, the greater Boise ID area has a comparable size population to D.C., but has very few gun laws by comparison, yet has a fraction of the D.C. gun violence.

Just Jim
April 12, 2009, 01:33 PM
Yep there were interesting times in the old west. People could have guns and travel with them freely. You had to watch what you said and did cause armed people would take offense.

Plus the lousey poloticions were tar and feathered and road out on a rail for the stuff they are pulling today.:D:D We could use a little old west justice here in the USA again.:cuss:

jj

Hungry Seagull
April 12, 2009, 01:34 PM
The West as it were was very... self regulating. Leaving hollywood aside, I think it would have been a great time.

The large cities in the east coast are densely packed. I recall a time I would be leaving hunts in the morning up in NYC and hearing a roll call of those killed during the night and a second roll of those taken to hospitals in the morning rush hour radio.

Baltimore was particularly... dangerous because the people fight. It was a city that impeded Federal Units over the last few hundred years from time to time. Not necessarily shootings, but more likely belgian blocks and wood bats etc. Prior to my leaving that city, it was common for people to get into bad areas of the city and get shot because they looked at someone wrong every night.

I have been to the cow towns out west and nothing but peace and quiet. Perhaps a bit of punch thrown and a bit of ... assertive gut shoving with much volume throwing cowards out into the gutter.

Like all cities there is going to be a certain amount of killing.

theotherwaldo
April 12, 2009, 01:47 PM
You have to remember, many of the murders in the "Old West" were turned into major social events with heavy newspaper coverage and "penny-dreadful" novels spreading the story.

The trials were public spectacles as well.

Many of the hangings that resulted might as well have been carnivals, too.

This process would keep one "Wild West" shooting (and its titillating aftermath) on the cover of eastern newspapers for years!

ServiceSoon
April 12, 2009, 01:53 PM
Don't you think comparing different towns at different points in history is producing a bad statistic.

eye5600
April 12, 2009, 02:08 PM
Prices in real dollars are a lot different. A lowly cowpoke might not be able to afford a gun, and could not afford the ammo to practice.

ArmedBear
April 12, 2009, 02:16 PM
While I can't cite stats, the greater Boise ID area has a comparable size population to D.C., but has very few gun laws by comparison, yet has a fraction of the D.C. gun violence.

Unfortunately, we also have horrific hailstorms 10 months of the year, no real opportunities for recreation of any kind, terrible traffic on the roads, an obscenely high cost of living, the hunting and fishing really suck, and the people are jerks.

Onmilothesameone
April 12, 2009, 02:19 PM
We don't hear too much about the fact that a whole bunch of the troublesome kind were unceremoniously hauled to the nearest convenient tree and strung up by the good citizens in those wild west communities.
Real lawmen were few and far between and vigilantism was the rule if you didn't want bad people walking roughshod all over your community.

The moral of the history lesson is that an armed society tends to be a polite society believe it or not.

qwert65
April 12, 2009, 02:35 PM
In most of those towns carrying weapons was not allowed

shootistpd27
April 12, 2009, 02:36 PM
In the days of the wild west the responsibility of ones protection of himself and his family were placed in his hands. The realization and appreciation of the fact that Americans were for the first time in fact free, caused Americans to remain indignant and determined to keep their freedom. The population of todays generation have never felt the crushing grip of tyranny so it is easy for them to forget that the cost of freedom is paid in blood. Most of todays American masses feel that freedom is absolute and guaranteed therefore releasing themselves from protecting thier freedom themselves for they have had their freedom protected by others for so long. This new philosophy has left most of the American people unprotected from threats both foreign and domestic. All those 2nd amendment advocates out there that fight for that right, are left to protect those who dont want that protection until they need it. We are a long way away from the wild west days, for to reach that time again, many folks will have to starve, be enslaved, or be reeducated that guns are our only hope to remain free. The worst foe that we as gun toters face is the philosophy of liberalism that is washed into the brains of our youth that an unclenched fist will bring about peace agianst an enemy of those fist that are tightly clenched.

largecaliber
April 12, 2009, 02:42 PM
Yes quert65 you are correct but the cities I mentioned are also cities in which you cannot carry a gun. Besides, back during that time many carried concealed.

Duke of Doubt
April 12, 2009, 02:50 PM
HungrySeagull: "Baltimore was particularly... dangerous because the people fight."

Back when I worked in DC I travelled to Baltimore on occasion. The first time I took my family over there for some good seafood, we (okay, I) got lost and ended up in the waterfront area. Back then (a little over a decade ago) the Baltimore waterfront was a grouping of run-down housing projects, unadulterated by any stores, offices, businesses or private homes. I used to drive right through the old Cabrini Green on Chicago Avenue on a highly regular basis, and I didn't feel anyware near as nervous then as I did later in Baltimore. It was as if the Soviets had built a housing complex in west Africa and abandoned it for a few decades.

largecaliber
April 12, 2009, 03:30 PM
service soon. I understand your thinking but the anti gunners are the one's who equate us to going back to the old west, not me. If they want to use this terminology then they must deal with the facts.

Suicide*Ride
April 12, 2009, 03:47 PM
Should we ever wind up in "The wild West" again... I'll have what it takes to defend myself! :D:neener::evil::D

Fred West
April 12, 2009, 03:59 PM
While I can't cite stats, the greater Boise ID area has a comparable size population to D.C., but has very few gun laws by comparison, yet has a fraction of the D.C. gun violence.

And I wonder why that is?

Fred.

Tinman357
April 12, 2009, 04:35 PM
I wish. A woman could walk down the street and not get raped. Criminals were dealt with. The whole country had a brighter out look. Low crime rates and a good person was respected.

Romanticized? Yep. But I'd like to see that come to pass.. In some ways. Not in others.

junedog
April 12, 2009, 05:15 PM
Tinman your exactly right . Criminals were dealt with not put in prisons where they get free meals and get to lay around on their a.. and watch TV all the time . Personally I would The Wild West, I am ready .

Rockwell1
April 12, 2009, 07:02 PM
I'd like to compare the stats between Abielene then and now

largecaliber
April 12, 2009, 08:14 PM
Abilene was part of this stat. Also remember that this stat. was all of those towns over a fifteen year period. Don't take my word for it, research it.

Onmilothesameone
April 12, 2009, 10:10 PM
Oh the wild west had a fair amount of prisons.
Yuma Arizona Territorial Prison and The Oklahoma Territorial Prison are two that come to mind
Prisoners didn't sit around watching TV or work in auto repair shops, they broke up big rocks into little rocks six days a week, twelve hours a day.
Sunday was for church services and washing your single issued uniform.

Sentences were long and parole was rare.
One did their time back then.

Rockwell1
April 12, 2009, 10:28 PM
In most of those towns carrying weapons was not allowed

And in most of those towns the ordinance was ignored by everyone except the law abiding citizens.

Some things never change

xstuntman
April 12, 2009, 11:27 PM
Yes, in the Old West most of the towns business owners carried concealed. An example would be a .36 revolver or a derringer of any caliber. Unarmed was plain stupid and decidedly deadly. Funny how things haven't changed.
Even walking to the OK Corral the Earps carried sidearms in their pockets or waistbands. X

Tommygunn
April 13, 2009, 12:26 AM
At one point I made the calculation that if you took all the homicides that took place in New York City in one year, and killed those people off at the rate in Dodge City during the height of its violent activity, it would have taken about five hundred years to kill them all.
Different times, way different populations, yes. But it sort of puts an intriging perspective on the difference between the "Wild Wild West" and "The Naked City."

MD_Willington
April 13, 2009, 12:49 AM
Wild West eh...

They hung horse thieves on a regular basis... I have not seen any public execution of car thieves around here..

Vonderek
April 13, 2009, 10:55 AM
During the "Wild West" era alcohol was heavily involved in most gunfights/homicides. If you stayed away from dangerous places (saloons) and dangerous characters (drunks and armed young men full of testosterone) you had a 99+% chance of living a safe and routine life. Just like today.

Chances were infinitely higher that you would get cut down at an early age by disease.

Dravur
April 13, 2009, 01:15 PM
Unfortunately, we also have horrific hailstorms 10 months of the year, no real opportunities for recreation of any kind, terrible traffic on the roads, an obscenely high cost of living, the hunting and fishing really suck, and the people are jerks.

Hey now, quit exaggerating. Boise is great! I wholly suggest all the whiny Californians who moved to Colorado should move to Boise.

catspa
April 13, 2009, 05:17 PM
ArmedBear:Unfortunately, we also have horrific hailstorms 10 months of the year, no real opportunities for recreation of any kind, terrible traffic on the roads, an obscenely high cost of living, the hunting and fishing really suck, and the people are jerks.

Member of the "Lesser Boise" committee, are ya?

Parker

the iron horse
April 13, 2009, 06:57 PM
I read an article in a history magazine a few years ago. It was debunking a lot of the myths about the wild west.

I can't remember the years, but in a ten year period(around 1870-1880) Dodge City only had seven or ten murders.

You killed another person back then and you paid for it the day after your conviction.

Gun fights were not everyday events. One of the themes in the novel Shane by Jack Schaefer.

Blue .45
April 13, 2009, 07:18 PM
This book has some great stories of how people dealt with criminals in the old days.

http://www.amazon.com/Outgunned-Stories-Citizens-Stood-Outlaws/dp/158182386X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239663867&sr=8-1


Editorial Reviews
Product Description

It's a classic story from hundreds of western shoot-'em-ups: a gang of outlaws rides into town, terrorizes local citizens, and finally meets their match when the heroic sheriff appears. In real life, it was different. Some of the most notorious western outlaws were killed or captured by townspeople. And the trend continued throughout the Prohibition era.

navajo
April 13, 2009, 08:05 PM
Think about the James gang and Northfield , Minn.

992
April 13, 2009, 08:14 PM
In the old days,people took care of themselves,and the very young and very old.It was a natural thing to respect each other,and be accountable for your own actions,and those of your family.
Today, people expect the gov't to take care of them,and their family,and do not respect themselves,or anybody else.
Many people don't want freedom,because with freedom comes accountabilty,and you have to take care of yourself.
It is much easier to vote for someone who will take care of you,and rule over you,gently.

992

largecaliber
April 14, 2009, 01:05 PM
To find the stats. I gave, google "Dispelling the myths of the wild west".

rondog
April 14, 2009, 02:36 PM
Gotta remember that back then, antibiotics were non-existant, medicines were much cruder and scarcer, and medical care was still very primitive. A non-fatal gunshot wound could easily kill a person later on from infection or gangrene, not to mention amputations, other complications, etc. That would tend to make folks behave too.

richyoung
April 14, 2009, 04:27 PM
In most of those towns carrying weapons was not allowed

That is a bit of Hollywood "fiction" for the most part, and widely ignored in the few cases where it was tried.

CWL
April 14, 2009, 05:48 PM
Not for me.
Any of you guys ever have to use an outhouse? Toilet paper was just a 'concept' back then.

Want to die from a simple infection because doctors didn't know about germs?

Things smelled pretty bad, always.

Women didn't wear make-up.

Diet Coke didn't exist (although I guess you could spike your Cocaine Cola with Laudanum!)

JMB hadn't invented the 1911 yet!

theotherwaldo
April 14, 2009, 06:19 PM
Yeah, CWL, I've dug my share of outhouse holes, sprinkled lime in my time, been in the little brown building when an excitable bull knocked it over, fished and hunted for daily meals, had bears in the bunkhouse, had to walk to school because I couldn't afford to shoe my horse, boiled my drinking water (or added a bit o' bourbon), and all of the rest.

You get used to the smell. 'Til it's been gone for a while, anyway.

What make-up women did wear contained white lead and arsenic - I've found jars of the stuff.

-And opening those old-time REAL Coke bottles is a pain. All those fiddley little wires that held the cap down.

ArmedBear
April 14, 2009, 06:20 PM
Any of you guys ever have to use an outhouse? Toilet paper was just a 'concept' back then.

Want to die from a simple infection because doctors didn't know about germs?

Things smelled pretty bad, always.

Women didn't wear make-up.

Boise's like that, to this day.

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