**TC Fire Storm Loads**


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Drgnarr
April 12, 2009, 09:52 PM
:confused:I am new to the black powder think and recently picked up a 50cal TC Fire Storm.

My buddies that hunt with flintlocks swear by shooting fff, rather than ff, why, not sure, cleaner burning?, but any way that is what I bought, fff for shooting and ffff for the pan.

I am shooting round balls, I am assuming they are all around 175-180 grains for 50cal?

Anyone have any experience with loads for the TC fire storm with FFF black powder and round balls.

I shot 10 rounds or so with 80 grains and also with 90 grains. The 80 grain seemed to shoot tighter groups, but is that enough poop to drop a deer at 100 yards?

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arcticap
April 12, 2009, 10:28 PM
fffg is cleaner burning and produces higher velocity. It compresses better, requires less loading effort and may ignite faster too. But it may not always shoot as accurately as ffg. Only testing loads would determine that.
According to the TC sidelock manual, the velocity difference between 80 and 90 grains of powder is only about 100 fps.
Since fffg powder is about equal to a 10% greater volume of ffg, your fffg loads are more like the equivalent of loading 90 and 100 grains of ffg powder. That's certainly potent enough to kill a deer since many have been killed successfully at even longer ranges. But that never means that the deer will necessarily "drop". A deer usually needs to be hit in the heart or in a part of its central nervous system for that to occur with a muzzle loader. And a round ball may not pass clean through a deer depending on what part it hits, especially at longer range. The ball may come to a stop against the hide on the far side. However, pure lead balls are known for having excellent expansion and causing less eatible meat damage as it simply plows through tissue compared to the hydrostatic shock of the high power smokeless calibers. And the round ball does have a relatively larger frontal area which does creates an effective lethal wound channel.

See page 75 for velocities:

http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/current/Shooting_TC_Side_Lock_Black_Powder_Guns.pdf

Drgnarr
April 12, 2009, 11:00 PM
You say about 10%.

So, your saying that 80 grains of FFF is = 88 grains of FF

And likewise, 90 grain of FFF = 99 grain of FF

Approx of course, but is this what you are getting at?

I was told the difference was more but beats the hell out of me!:confused:

arcticap
April 12, 2009, 11:49 PM
Yes, I usually compensate the load by 10% when using Pyrodex P vs. Pyrodex RS. There is less air space between the granules of fffg which causes it to occupy less volume than the equivalent amount of ffg [i.e. the load by weight].
Whether that amount of difference is actually 7% or 10%, I'm not exactly sure since every powder has a slightly different granule size. And the size of the granules and percentage of fines (fffg & ffffg) can even vary among different containers and batches of the same brand of black powder.

arcticap
April 13, 2009, 12:41 AM
Hodgdon's loading data comparing equal volume loads of Pyrodex RS vs. P shows that there's not that much difference between their velocities. Certainly not 10%, and in some case only about 5 - 6% [3.8% - 5.4%] with some selected loads. So I stand corrected. When measured by velocity, the actual difference between Pyrodex P and RS from rifles is only about 5%. And with some maximum loads the recorded velocity difference is almost zero. However one .45 caliber load comparing 70 grains does reveal a velocity difference of 14.9%! :what:
That velocity difference may generally be greater when fired from revolvers due to their much shorter barrels though.
Also I don't have data about the actual velocity differences between black powder granulations.


PYRODEX DATA
POWDER MEASURE SETTING
PYRODEX RS & SELECT (FFG)

45 CALIBER
BULLET/SABOT 70GR. 80GR. 90GR. 100GR.
150 gr. Knight/Red Hot 1829 1969 2048 2124
180 gr. T/C XTP 1568 1856 1901 1956
240 gr. Knight Lead PT 1568 1644 1713 1802
225 gr. CVA Power Belt 1534 1579 1641 1741

POWDER MEASURE SETTING
PYRODEX P (FFFG)

45 CALIBER
BULLET/SABOT 70GR. 80GR. 90GR. 100GR.
150 gr. Knight/Red Hot 1856 1994 2089 2136
180 gr. T/C XTP 1802 1887 1943 1990
240 gr. Knight Lead PT 1603 1682 1760 1818
225 gr. CVA Power Belt 1560 1604 1692 1756

POWDER MEASURE SETTING
PYRODEX RS & SELECT(FFG)

50 CALIBER
BULLET/SABOT 70GR. 80GR. 90GR. 100GR.
240 gr. Hdy.XTP 50/44 1447 1555 1627 1719
300 gr. Nosler Shots 50/44 1333 1500 1524 1613
250 gr. Bar. MZ 50/45 1445 1537 1618 1700
260 gr. Spr./Blk.Sabot 50/45 1416 1520 1584 1647
300 gr. T/C XTP 50/45 1364 1451 1521 1593
250 gr. Hdy. SST 50/45 1459 1567 1623 1706
348 gr. CVA Power Belt 1262 1336 1386 1509
385 gr. Hdy. Conical w/wad 1211 1297 1369 1433
410 gr. Hdy. Conical w/wad 1187 1266 1340 1408

POWDER MEASURE SETTING
PYRODEX P (FFFG)

50 CALIBER
BULLET/SABOT 70GR. 80GR. 90GR. 100GR.
240 gr. Hdy. XTP 50/44 1514 1595 1673 1775
300 gr. Nosler Shots 50/44 1403 1565 1596 1658
250 gr. BAR. MZ 50/45 1503 1604 1688 1792
260 gr. Spr./Blk. Sabot 50/45 1466 1548 1645 1717
300 gr. T/C XTP 50/45 1422 1489 1599 1667
250 gr. Hdy. SST 50/45 1499 1592 1667 1773
348 gr. CVA Power Belt 1308 1392 1479 1560
385 gr. Hdy. Conical w/wad 1242 1333 1424 1499
410 gr. Hdy. Conical w/wad 1216 1304 1394 1415

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/muzzleloading_manual_2008.pdf?CHECKBOX_1=on

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