5.56 SPR Mk 12


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Roadwild17
April 13, 2009, 11:29 PM
Im interested in making / buying a DMR or SPR rifle in 5.56. I have several reasons why this rifle would be better than a 308 bolt gun for my specific application.

This is what I'm trying to end up with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_X_Special_Purpose_Rifle



Anyway, who has something like this available as a over the counter package (just the gun). I know DMPS Mk 12 and Mini SASS, but what else is out there that isn't a varmint rifle?

If I have to make the rifle that's ok, but what / who makes an accurate, reliable upper?

Also, isnt 18" a little short for this type of rifle, would 20" give better performance / a little longer range?

I notices both DMPS rifles have a 1X8 twist, is that for the 62-75gr crowd?

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Zak Smith
April 14, 2009, 01:32 AM
There are a wide variety of accurate AR-15's in a variety of formats. You'll probably be better off building or buying one for your particular intended uses than the SPR, which is a very specific setup.

The SPR probably ended up 18" because it was intended for longer range shots, but it needed to use that OPS INC suppressor, which both would influence the overall length of the rifle, and that OPS model needed a collar in a specific position on the barrel.

-z

Pack
April 14, 2009, 03:38 AM
When I was looking around for the AR I did buy (basically this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=126683850), I also saw that Armalite had two set up in a similar manner as well:

http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=15A4&ReturnUrl=Categories3.aspx?Category=8e8e5de6-5022-483e-812b-822e58014822

http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=15A4NM&ReturnUrl=Categories3.aspx?Category=8e8e5de6-5022-483e-812b-822e58014822

Perhaps any of these 3 would be decent starting points?

I've never owned an Armalite, and so don't know one way or another about their quality. The Bushy that I got, however, seems pretty darn good.

Roadwild17
April 15, 2009, 10:57 PM
Well, what would the role be?

waterhouse
April 15, 2009, 11:49 PM
ADCO will build you the upper, in either MOD 0 or MOD 1. Here is my Mod 0:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/waterhouse/SPRbuild.jpg

Bought it on a whim, and it shot fantastic, but I'd listen to Zak. People build them with OPS collars, because that is how the gov't builds them, but I don't own an OPS can.

I've since sold it. I've also gone through a 18" Noveske in a Mod 1 lookalike, and since settled on an 16" Noveske in a JP tube. It's lighter and does everything I want it to do.

Zak Smith
April 16, 2009, 12:18 AM
Yeah, that's why I said unless you want a Mk12 clone just to have one - and nothing wrong with that kind of collecting - you can probably get something better for your use.

Here's a real SPR
http://demigodllc.com/photo/ITRC-2004/smaller/135_3503_img-b.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/ITRC-2004/?small=135_3503_img-b.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/ITRC-2004/?small=135_3503_img-b.jpg)

Problems: weighs a ton, uses now-obsolete full-length ARMS rail and mounts, has special parts for a silencer most people won't buy.

There are a lot of high-end uppers on the market now that are intended to fulfill the "compact but very accurate" role. That's more or less what my 17" 3-Gun uppers do, except they have more DMR style optics than SPR optics-- optimized for 3Gun.

Roadwild17
April 16, 2009, 11:23 PM
Would The Larue tactical "Tactical stealth sniper system 18" http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=100 or Saber Defence SPR http://www.sabredefence.com/commercial.php?focus=upper be good places to start looking?

Also, what kind of handguard is on the SPR?
I like how it is round and smooth up close to the receiver (where you hand goes on the forend) and there is just the rails on the front.

I done care about a look a like, Im running an AAC can.

Zak Smith
April 16, 2009, 11:26 PM
The SPR has a PRI tube. I use it on my comp/tac uppers
http://demigodllc.com/photo/MSTN17-2/smaller/D462_9185_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/MSTN17-2/?small=D462_9185_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/MSTN17-2/?small=D462_9185_img.jpg)

Auburn1992
April 17, 2009, 12:49 AM
waterhouse, where do you find a full length top rail like that?

bkb0000
April 17, 2009, 02:10 AM
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=r-18v-556&cat=52&page=1&search=&since=&status=

this is probably what you're looking for

if you're not familiar with noveske, they're the bee's knees... the cat's meow.. the hairy titties.. and so forth.

aren't taking orders right now, though..

LoneRider
April 17, 2009, 02:23 AM
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin...since=&status=

this is probably what you're looking for

if you're not familiar with noveske, they're the bee's knees... the cat's meow.. the hairy titties.. and so forth.

aren't taking orders right now, though..

Any clue when they might start taking orders?

waterhouse
April 17, 2009, 10:13 AM
waterhouse, where do you find a full length top rail like that?

It was an A.R.M.S. Swan rail on a PRI tube.

Roadwild17
April 17, 2009, 08:07 PM
waterhouse, where do you find a full length top rail like that?

It was an A.R.M.S. Swan rail on a PRI tube.

Dosent a setup like that add a little height to the optics?
Does med / low hight rings compensate for this?

LoneRider
April 18, 2009, 02:22 AM
Just outta curiousity, what provision is there for back-up iron sights in case the scope goes south of the border?

I'm curious as an SPR Mk.12 is one of two rifles I'm dithering between building in the future (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=443889)(after my current deployment).

Zak Smith
April 18, 2009, 10:07 AM
You can see the BUIS on the SPR pictured I posted. It's the same setup on waterhouse's pic.

Javelin
April 18, 2009, 10:42 AM
Listen to Bkb0000. Noveske is the best way to go if your building a Special Purpose Rifle.

The quality and accuracy will be second to none.

:)

Roadwild17
April 18, 2009, 10:57 AM
What about optics? Does the SPR have a low mag optic like 1X4?

LoneRider
April 18, 2009, 12:42 PM
You can see the BUIS on the SPR pictured I posted. It's the same setup on waterhouse's pic.

Thanks. They're just like the BUIS on the USMC SAM-R rifle (an old high school pal is a USMC armorer, he's worked with the SAM-R before).

I've heard Centurion Arms is pretty decent for SPR too.

Zak Smith
April 18, 2009, 06:49 PM
Here is a breakdown of different optic types for the carbine


http://demigodllc.com/photo/PRM-2006.11/icon/D100_5378_img.jpg
article | Fighting Carbine Optics http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://demigodllc.com/articles/fighting-carbine-optics-for-the-ar-15)


Short answer: the Mk12 SPR has a Leupold 3-9 M/RT, a scope basically designed for the SPR. The concept of the Type III / SPR scope is to go as far as 5.56 is capable of.

SudSlinger
April 18, 2009, 09:36 PM
great article zak

Shung
April 18, 2009, 10:05 PM
love mine (clone made out a Match Hbar)

http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/94/71/06/mk12ne11.jpg

Jeremy2171
April 18, 2009, 10:32 PM
FYI SAM-R and Mk12 SPR not the same. SAM-Rs are officially obsolete in the USMC..replaced by the Mk-12.

LoneRider
April 19, 2009, 01:29 AM
FYI SAM-R and Mk12 SPR not the same. SAM-Rs are officially obsolete in the USMC..replaced by the Mk-12.

I thought the USMC chose to adopt the M39 as their DMR to complement the existing SAM-R in the arsenal.

HorseSoldier
April 19, 2009, 01:54 AM
There are separate requirements for precision 5.56mm and precision 7.62mm weapons these days. Not sure on the specifics of that USMC's take on that, but the two aren't mutually exclusive.

LoneRider
April 19, 2009, 01:59 AM
love mine (clone made out a Match Hbar)

Shung, what sort of a bipod did you use?

There are separate requirements for precision 5.56mm and precision 7.62mm weapons these days. Not sure on the specifics of that USMC's take on that, but the two aren't mutually exclusive.

I presume range is one of said requirements due to the longer reach of the 7.62 over the 5.56. The reason I ask is I'm planning to build my own DMR, either based on the Mk.12 or the M110 (I figured an Armalite platform might be best since I've got familiarity with said rifle).

HorseSoldier
April 19, 2009, 02:09 AM
Ammo commonality, too -- in an infantry squad, say, you've got mags of 5.56mm ready to go if your marksman runs dry (or just can't get) Mk 262. You can do something similar with 7.62 if M118LR isn't available, by delinking MG ammo, but accuracy is going to suffer compared to green tip (or ball M80 7.62, if you can get it) since they loosen quality control some on MG ammo to get a better beaten zone downrange.

As for which one to build, I'd say it comes down to which caliber you're more interested in shooting. Both platforms, built right, will give you great accuracy.

LoneRider
April 19, 2009, 02:12 AM
Sounds good. I figured that a squad DMR would want ammo commonality with his mates.

So we don't thread hijack, here's the discussion thread on my DMR project (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=443889)...

Roadwild17
April 19, 2009, 02:13 AM
After looking around a good little bit, I keep coming back to a Larue Tactical 18" stealth upper.

LoneRider
April 19, 2009, 02:15 AM
Did you check out Centurion Arms? They're one of the manufacturers the SEALs contracted to build the SPRs and they do sell to civilians.

bkb0000
April 19, 2009, 03:15 AM
centurion also rocks.. IIRC, they're even further out than noveske, though.

bkb0000
April 19, 2009, 03:17 AM
i think noveske is a little more practical for most civilians, though. unless you just really have your heart set on an exact replica, a telescoping stock, plentiful rail place, VIS, and a vortex are really want you want. i'd rather take a noveske SPR into combat, personally.

Roadwild17
April 19, 2009, 11:33 AM
I dont have to have a look a like. I want a rifle that fills the role of the SPR. I want to push the engagement range I have with a semi auto platform.

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