[Ukraine Train]

I'm turning 21 in a couple months and I'm sure it won't be too long after that I get a handgun so I'm shopping now so I don't waste time later.:D My college budget is tight so the price needs to be low, like below $200. I would prefer it to be CCW friendly (medium frame, single stack mag) in hopes that Ohio passes a law soon. My first thought was a Makarov as they're very reliable, cheap, pretty accurate, small and my dad used one in the Soviet army so it'd be cool to have one just for that reason. The thing I don't like, though, is it's 9mm and I'm not sure I want that in a carry gun. My next thought was a Tanfoglio, which from what I've read is a decent gun. Other than that, I have no clue. Buying used is not a problem and it has to be an auto, no revolvers. Suggestions?

[tomkatz]

Makarov or bersa seems the best way to go, or a kel-tec p11. From what you said you don't want the 9x18 of the mak, what caliber do you have in mind?.....tom

[denfoote]

I recommend one of these!!

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/429771/Springfield1911A1Loaded.jpg

[Ukraine Train]

denfoote, how much is one of those? I'm not really sure what caliber I want, I was thinking .40 but 9mm isn't out of the question totally. All depends on what I can get for what I want to spend.

[sm]

Similar needs, same recommendations.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?postid=538179#post538179

[Mastrogiacomo]

I wouldn't go cheap just because you're on a budget. I got the S&W 442 revolver because of price and regretted it. Sold it. Almost got a S&W 908 pistol for the same reason -- price. Finally came to my senses and got a Beretta. Best damn decision I made. Loved it so much, I now have three. If you're working and can save a little aside each week, look for the gun you really want. Spend time at the range, renting a few. You might change your mind between now and then. Put it on lay a way or just keep saving. Before long, you'll have a great gun thats a joy to shoot. Please don't rush it. I know you're excited but if you're willing to be patient for a while yet, you can avoid the pitfalls of getting the wrong gun simply because you wanted one NOW....

[Illuminate]

Makarov.

[BlkHawk73]

I'd be surprised to find any real quality piece for that amount. I was leary about spending much $ when I bought my first CCW when I was in college. The more I looked and thought about it, I decided that in the event I did need to use it, I wanted something that would be nearly 100% reliable. That narrowed my choices down drastcially. I found myself looking out of the price range I anticipated.
In the end, I was telling myself that I would not entrust my life to a cheap pistol. My life is worth more than $200 (my budget then too). I eventually choose a Ruger SP101 in .357 NIB for les than $400. (Never seen a revolver jam, FTE, etc) Still didn't bust my finaces. I've bought other CCWs (P7M8) but I still love that little Ruger and don't ever regret the little extra savings for it .
Don't rush into the purchase just because you can legally buy. Make the right choice first and you won't need to make a second choice later on.

[RON in PA]

What's wrong with a revolver? stay true to your heritage and get a Nagant, it has killed thousands.

[cosmonick]

You may want to keep your eyes on www.aimsurplus.com. They often times have good surplus pistols for great prices. As long as you're an Ohio resident, you can just drive to their warehouse in Middletown and buy your pistol direct from them. They will charge you $15 for paper work, but it is for as many firearms as you want to buy in one visit.

[GigaBuist]

Well, a CZ-75B would be close to your price range. I think I bought mine in 2001 for $280 at a gun show. Great great gun. Reliable as you can get, points well, fits my small hands well. If 9mm isn't something you'd feel comfortable carrying you can get it in .40 also.

It was also my first handgun... and I only own two right now. I got bit by the evil black rifle bug so I've been mostly buying them after I aquired two handguns. the other's a Glock 21.

I know nearly nothing about them but the CZ-52 might be an option here.... others have suggest Makaraov... same basic design from what I know.

Remember though, you'll want to train with a CCW piece regularly so ammo price might be something you should consider as well as availability. You can drop into any sporting goods store in my area and find 9mm and .40 cal ammo. Getting 7.62x25 or 9x18mm might be harder.

You might be willing to find somebody that will part with a used CZ-75B for around $200 bucks.

[lee n. field]

My college budget is tight so the price needs to be low, like below $200. I would prefer it to be CCW friendly (medium frame, single stack mag) in hopes that Ohio passes a law soon. My first thought was a Makarov as they're very reliable, cheap, pretty accurate, small and my dad used one in the Soviet army so it'd be cool to have one just for that reason.

Hold that thought. It's a good one.

The thing I don't like, though, is it's 9mm and I'm not sure I want that in a carry gun.

It's a 9mm _Makarov_, not the same thing at all. Weather it will work for you I guess depends on why you don't want a 9mm Parabellum.

[Ukraine Train]

It's a 9mm _Makarov_, not the same thing at all. Weather it will work for you I guess depends on why you don't want a 9mm Parabellum.

I thought that both the Parabellum and Mak 9mm were considered by some to have insufficient knock down power. I guess I'd just have to practice enough to hit a vital organ/artery on the first shot heh. Ammo price is a factor too, considering going through a couple hundred rounds (or more) per outing can get pricey.

[keederdag]

I say go with the Mak; great gun, in your price range, cheap surplus ammo, pa had one, great hollow-points availible. More ooommppff than a .380, a little less than a 9mm para; most the "experts" say you MUST carry a .45 or you'll die and be raped and be pilaged and theyll find your grandma too. Personally I the the 9x18 would do the trick just fine if need be. Try to find an east German if you can, from what I've seen the Chinese are also just about as nice. The Russians are good as well, but tend to show more machine marks. Great accurate, affordable pistols. Good choice!
Regaurds Keeder:D

[Scarface]

Dear Ukraine,

I bought my Mak about 15 years ago. It has never failed to feed, fire or eject in that time. I can't tell how many rounds have been through it, but I trust it implicitly.

If you're going to carry, it absolutely has to be reliable. If you're on a budget, you can't beat the value for the Mak. My favorite gunshow sells 50 round boxes of 9X18 for 6 to 7 dollars, so practicing with it doesn't break the bank.

My wife used it to qualify for her CCW. She's a dainty 5'4", I'm an overweight 6' plus and it's comfortable for both of us.

Regards and shoot well,

Scarface

[10-Ring]

When I see CCW on a budget, my first thoughts are of S&W mod 60's & Ruger SP-101's ;)

[David4516]

I found myself in a very similar situation about a year ago.

I'm now 22, and have no cash because I'm a college student.

I went with the Makarov. I have nothing but postive things to say about it. Scarface is right on, the Mak is the most rock-soild, dependable auto-loader out there. If you find yourself in a situation where you need to use your handgun, you need to be confident that it will "go bang". The Makarov does go bang, all the time, every time.

Also, as others have noted, 9mm Makarov is not the same as 9mm Luger. 9mm Makarov shoots a slightly fatter bullet (it's not a "true" 9mm, it's more like 9.2 mm), but it isn't as fast. The bullet itself is also a litte lighter in 9mm Makarov, so 9mm Luger, while a smaller diameter, is considered the "bigger" caliber. That said, it should be plenty big enough as long as you hit what you aim at...

[Mastrogiacomo]

If I were on a budget, which I am, I'd stick with the Ruger GP 100 or SP 101. I'm hoping to get a Beretta Brig at some point but this will be quite a while of saving -- especially since I'd like to get a couple of GP 100's in blue and stainless 3". Ruger guns are a nice option if you have to watch your spending and a 3" offers a nice alternative for personal defense. Reliable, inexpensive, easy care, and accurate....good luck however you choose. :D

[Al Thompson]

Another vote for the Makarov. One of the big plusses for the 9x19 is the 100 round value packs at Wal-Mart. Less than 11 bucks for a hundred rounds can contribute greatly to your skills.

Nothing wrong with wheelguns and .38 isn't that expensive iif you can find a commercial reloader. It's about 7$ per 50 with brass trade-in here.

Not sure where you got the "9mm is a wwhimp" idea, but it's not an accurate one. With the great JHPs now available, there's less and less difference in pistol caliber performance these days, IMHO.

[Mastrogiacomo]

9mm a whimp load? Stupid thinking, yes? It's shot placement, not caliber. In the hands of seasoned shooter, even a .38 will suffice.

[Ukraine Train]

Ok, I'm convinced 9mm isn't so bad. What do you guys think of Star Model B/BMs? So far from what I've read they're pretty decent but they're single action only so unless you carry it cocked you could lose a valuable second or two to cock it. I'll probably end up with a Mak.

What does it mean for a barrel to be linked? The Star B and B super vary in that the super is linkless.

[Mastrogiacomo]

I'd just go with the Markov. It's your clear favorite and important to go with your first choice.

[Keith]

Buy a .22!

Ohio doesn't even have a carry law, so why worry about what carry gun you should buy?

Get a .22 and learn to shoot. Later, if they pass a carry law, you will actually be proficient and experienced enough to handle a centerfire pistol. No way you're going to get the practice you need on your current budget, with a centerfire gun.

Keith

[BHPshooter]

Ah, yes. The search for a first handgun. It is an important one.

About 2 years ago, I decided that I wanted a Beretta 92FS. I was hellbent on getting one. Then I went to a gunshop and, just out of curiousity, I held a Browning Hi Power and a CZ-75. When I held the BHP, I knew I had to have one. Two years later, I finally had the money to get it.

Now I have two. I have only had the first one for 4 months, but I just got a FEG Hi Power clone.

Some advice? Don't limit yourself because of your budget. Save a while, and research while you save. You may just change your mind about what you want!
The Mak is a great choice, and even fits your price right now, but do your homework first.

You may also consider:
Ruger P-series
CZ pistols
A Hi Power clone
A Taurus PT92 or PT99 (copy of the Beretta 92FS, but with a much better safety)


These options offer you some very good firearms without compromising because of your financial situation -- I know how it is, man. I am in college too, and it really isn't easy, I know. But don't compromise. Your life may depend on it someday.

Good luck. ;)

Wes

[lissell]

If you decided on getting the Makarov make sure you get a real makarov, not a look-a-like. I have a pa-63 that looks almost exactly like a real makarov, and shooting it is a pain. The thing has a nasty recoil, even my boyfriend, who is about double my size hated the thing after four rounds. Also, the knockoff has a lot of trouble loading defensive ammo, a sore point with me.

[Al Thompson]

One thing - handguns (with the exception of the very large calibers, IE .44Mag) just suck as fight stoppers. What they have going for them is handyness. The difference between .22LR and 9mm ball is much less than you would imagine. When you get into the better and bigger hollowpoints, there is some improvement, but it's still more like sticking someone with a knife that shooting them with a rifle. Very little shock and not much bleeding, so shot placement gets critical fast.

First rule of a gunfight is have a gun. Handguns check that block.

Second rule is have a reliable firearm. If ball is what works in your firearm, for goodness sakes use ball. It's very hard to hurt someone with a jammed HG. To repeat, reliability must be as near 100% as possible.

Much furthur down the list is caliber and bullet type. :)

Until a few years ago, the only "one shot stops" I had inside info on were performed with a .25 ACP and a M36 loaded with 158SWC. Ain't the arrow, it's the indian.

[Ukraine Train]

If you decided on getting the Makarov make sure you get a real makarov, not a look-a-like. I have a pa-63 that looks almost exactly like a real makarov, and shooting it is a pain. The thing has a nasty recoil, even my boyfriend, who is about double my size hated the thing after four rounds. Also, the knockoff has a lot of trouble loading defensive ammo, a sore point with me.

Yeah, I've seen the PA-63s around. I think they have more recoil because they're made from a lighter alloy (aluminum maybe?) than the Maks so there's less mass to absorb recoil. I will probably get a Bulgarain Mak because those are the easiest ones to find right now and they're supposed to have good quality.

[Walt Sherrill]

I thought that both the Parabellum and Mak 9mm were considered by some to have insufficient knock down power. I guess I'd just have to practice enough to hit a vital organ/artery on the first shot heh. Ammo price is a factor too, considering going through a couple hundred rounds (or more) per outing can get pricey.

Hardly ANY pistol has "knock-down" power (not if its suitable for CCW.) But they sure beat using pointed sticks.

(Desert Eagle, maybe, in .50 AE?...)

Most handguns will do what needs to be done, if you've gotten good with them, but knock down? Mostly in movies and on TV. In the real world, it happens only if you're lucky.

Your best best, given your price constraints, is to look for a 1) Makarov and get the hotest ammo you can find for it, a 2) used S&W snub (around $200 - $250) in .357 or .38 Special, or a 3) used CZ or Witness in 9mm.

The Mak and the S&W will be easier to conceal, but will offer less rounds than the other two. The .357 round is still formidable, but quite a chore to shoot in a snub revolver. (An awful lot of the round's power goes out the barrel unignited until it hits the air. Many shoot +P .38 special in the guns because of that.)

[David4516]

lissell,

I can see how it would be easy to buy something like a PA-63 thinking that it's a Mak. I've seen them labeled as "Makarov" at some gunshows. I hate it when dealers do stuff like that.

On a side note, I also live in beaverton (near Beaverton Mall). I'm wondering where it is that you shoot around here? I haven't been able to find anywhere in the area, so I have to drive way the heck out there to find a good shooting spot...

[keederdag]

I had a few PA-63's and an SMC (smaller) mine were in .380; and recoil was a bit sharp. 1st due to straight blow back design, 2nd light alloy frames,3rd shape of the backstrap: it has a really depressed area where the web of your hand grasps, and is very thick tword the base. I think this actually facilitates perceived recoil, and tends to bite the web of the hand. Other than that, they were well made, inexpensive pistola's:D

[CZ52GUY]

...I liked my Bulgarian Mak' so much, I just bought another one.

A quality Mak' can still be found for under $200.

They are simple to take down, and easy to care for.

On the whole, they are very reliable.

They are easy to shoot as a "first gun" and you can move up the caliber ladder from there if you desire with your "2nd gun" then "3rd", etc., etc., etc....

No, 9x18 doesn't carry the "man-stopper" reputation, but in reality...handguns don't do the greatest job at that...as many have indicated, it's better than throwing rocks or yelling "you go away or I'll call my Mommy" by an order of magnitude :D.

For some good info' on the Mak', and the most dead-honest internet dealer I've ever had the pleasure of doing business with, check out www.makarov.com.

Good luck!

CZ52'

[lissell]

David4516: Most of the time i end up going to a Gravel quarry out towards the beach. Unless you want to go to a spot like the Place to Shoot (Out by PIR and such) there really isnt a good option. Also, do you have your CHL and if so, where did you get your gun safety class requirement?

If you want specifics on ye olde shootin spot send me a private message:D


In regards to the Makarov: It is a loaner/gift so i didnt get swindled. ;-) The harsh recoil was mostly a combo of the really light frame and a hard plastic around the grip. The recoil went straight back into the webbing between my thumb and pointer. No other gun that ive shot has failed so miserably at distributing recoil thru the hand.

[Black Majik]

Oh the first handgun purchase. I was in that situation 1 month ago... now I have 2 :D


I jus' turned 21 a month ago (in August)

My advice is to save up for something you might actually like and not limit yourself of your choice.

I've been wanting a handgun for a while when I turned 21, so I saved up.

My first handgun was in .45 ACP, since that was the round I liked shooting most and it had a "big bang" :rolleyes: :o :D After all those steven segal movies, I wanted a 1911 type pistol. Also I preferred my handgun to be new, so I could have it and pass it down later down the road, after all... first anythings has the most sentimental value.

After shopping around I picked up a Colt Government w/ a Chip McCormick trigger and a trigger job set to 4 lbs.

Never jammed once, and a straight shooter.

Then today I picked up a Sig Sauer P226 in 9mm. Wouldn't you know it, I went to a smaller caliber. Why, cuz I enjoy shooting and .45 ACP rounds are too expensive to shoot :banghead:

Save up, you still have a few more months... maybe get something more that you like, something that you'll enjoy more.

Sure $600 on a handgun is a lot... but ya know what. I look back and its all worth it.

Good luck in your search.

[David4516]

"Unless you want to go to a spot like the Place to Shoot (Out by PIR and such) there really isnt a good option. Also, do you have your CHL and if so, where did you get your gun safety class requirement?"

Yup, had the CHL for a few months now, took the class at the place to shoot, along with a friend of mine. If I remember correctly it was pretty cheap too, $35 or so. My carry gun is my Makarov of course :D

In fact I just got back from bowling at Valley lanes, and I found out that you can bowl while carrying a Mak... in fact I seemed to do better for some reason (I'm not very good to begin with though, I only go bowling like twice a year)...

[Don Galt]

I'd suggest you consider a CZ52. Similar heritage to a Makarov, but its easier to change the barrel. So, you could buy one, AND buy a 9mm (cheap 9mm, not the 9mm Mak) barrel for under $200. (On the CZ the barrel just slides out when you disassemble, on the Mak you need a barrel press and its apparently difficult to do right.)

Then you have 9mm when you want to save money on ammo, and the superior penetration of the 7.62x25 when you want that.

They are dead reliable pistols, rather safe for the period, and plenty of parts are out there.

Make sure you get one with a Z on the trigger guard (means its had the decocker safety mod). You do that, and you don't dry fire it, and you have a hell of a pistol for about a hundred dollars (Plus $85 for the 9mm barrel if you want to shoot 9mm as well.)

People talk about Firing pins, but I've only heard of one breaking and it was after a lot of dry firing. And you get better out of box reliability from these 50 year olds than you seem to with brand new 1911 types.

Anyway, why the Tokarev is a really good round: (doesn't mention it by name but dispells a lot of myths that you make people discount it.)
http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm

[Gunslinger45]

Just my 2 cents but save your money, kid, until you have enough for a real handgun.

A real good .40S&W or .45ACP will cost you between $600 and $1,000. And you still might want to add some custom touches to the gun once you have it. Anything less and you are asking for trouble (remember you get what you pay for). Since my life may depend on my choice of handgun I chose a Kimber Pro Carry HD II (and a Pro carry SLE - no longer made) in .45ACP. Neither was cheap (both went for over $750). I also added some custom touches that amounted to a little over $200 for each gun (some of those were necessary due to my small hands, you may not need any custom touches). What I have are 2 powerful, concealable and reliable handguns that I do trust my life too.

It's just my viewpoint but I wouldn't trust my life to a handgun worth only $200.

[keederdag]

I think with the Mak, your geting a whole lot more than your really paying for. Ya know, slave labor!:uhoh: But if theyre selling quality cheap, that's just a good deal.:D

[rebbryan]

instead of getting a gun, get a Christmas time job and make some more money and upgrade

[Ukraine Train]

instead of getting a gun, get a Christmas time job and make some more money and upgrade

I'm only home two weeks for winter break, after which I go back to my co-op job. I already work full time six months per year but it all goes to tuition, food, housing, books, my car, etc. so making room for anything extra, like a gun, is often tough. For now I think I'm set on a Mak but we'll see how the budget is in a few months. Thanks for everyone's input.

[David4516]

Remember, just because it costs more doen't mean its better. I've seen plenty of those $600 guns jam. I've never seen a Makarov jam...

[Don Galt]

"It's just my viewpoint but I wouldn't trust my life to a handgun worth only $200."

I'd rather chose based on reliability and robustness than price. If you discover the gun you get is a lemon--- and all types have them at all price ranges-- then its a lot easier to get out of a $200 lemon than a $1,000 lemon.

Also, given the economics of the Gun business, the $200 gun may well have been made to a higher standard of quality and robustness than a brand new $600 gun.

Plus, for $600 you could buy three, so you're not going without if you want to put one of them in the shop for some work.

[Ukraine Train]

update....

Looks like the prime candidate right now is a CZ-40. CDNN has them for $250. I checked them out at czforum.com and almost everyone loves them. The only thing I'm afraid of is if it's going to be too big for concealed carry. This might be the only reason I wouldn't get one, in which case I'd get a Mak.

The other guns I've been eyeing are the Ruger P-series, RAP 440, and Arcus 98.