[Sportcat]

I just ordered one of these for my nightstand. Even though the price was higher, I like the idea of rechargable batteries.

Can anyone comment on the quality and durability of Surefire, or even more specifically, the Commander series?

[45crittergitter]

I understand that Surefires are great. I only have the G2 myself. I understand from a Surefire dealer/rep at our local gun show that they have not perfected the rechargeables yet, and he did not recommend them. Bummer.

[Sportcat]

$145 down the drain?

[TechBrute]

Here's the deal on the rechargables (my experience). The rechargables are great for those that use them on a daily basis. Use it, come home, swap batteries, use it some more. What they do NOT do well is sit. The batteries will last about a week without charging. If you are looking for a bedstand light, get one of their regular lights that take the SF123 batteries. They have a 10 year shelf life. The surefire G2 has changed the flashlight world as far as I'm concerned. For less than $30, you can get a light that is bright enough to blind someone, yet you can put it in your SHTF bag for years at a time without having to worry about the batteries.

[Sportcat]

Anyone have any positive reviews to make me feel a little more comfortable about my purchase?:rolleyes:

Any Surefire reps out there who want to defend their product?

[TechBrute]

The 8AX is great for daily use. It is brighter than the standard P60 lights, and more econmical to run on a regular basis. It just wasn't for me, as I wanted a bedstand light that sits for months at a time.

[Sportcat]

Sounds like I'll just need to recharge the batteries every couple of weeks to make sure they're fresh.

[curt]

i don't know about the 8 but i have a 9an that i put a turbo head on. Its a great light and came in handy during our recent isabel induced power outage recently. Just get in a habit of charging it up every weekend or you may find its dead when you need it. I keep a 6 v lithium light handy as well as my pistols m2 light for when things go bump in the night.

[Sportcat]

I contacted Surefire directly yesterday afternoon and inquired about the comments made here regarding rechargables. They responded within hours...

Mr. Porter:

Thanks for taking the time to investigate at the source. I've been using the original version of the 8AX for over six years and it still works as
advertised. That said, the negative perception of a few of the folks posting
at thehighroad.org stems from a real but temporary battery problem we had last year. A batch of rechargeable batteries from a new supplier slipped
through quality control with a defect.

The batteries in question would not hold a charge for an acceptable period of time. We have returned to our original supplier and that problem has been solved. We have also revised our QC procedure as a result. Unfortunately the perception issue will take longer to overcome. Rest assured, SureFire rechargeables are the best performing rechargeables on the market, they also come with the strongest warranty: if it breaks or does not work as advertised, we will replace or repair at no charge.

Rechargeable batteries do self-discharge over time, but a fully charged battery will hold most of its charge for a month or longer. I look forward to hearing about your own experience once you have had a chance to use your new SureFire.

Regards,

> Derek McDonald
> Marketing Manager
> SureFire
> 18300 Mt. Baldy Circle
> Fountain Valley, CA 92708
> U.S.A.
> Tel: 714-545-9444 (ex. 114)
> Fax: 714-545-9537

[TechBrute]

That's good to know. Maybe all four batteries I had were from that bad batch. Moot point, as I've sold the 8AX that I had. They would last about a week prior to being nearly unservicable. After about a week, the light was about as bright as my maglight solitaire AAA. It would then shine for about 5 mintues prior to being really, really dead. A fresh charge would last for a satisfactory amount of time, I just wasn't satisfied with the way it performed after laying around.

I have no doubts in the Surefire warranty.

[laynlow]

I have an 8NX commander and it has battery issues. As long as they are fresh, there is no problem. If they have been sitting idle for a week or two then I get 20 seconds of light and a rapid fade to yellow.

I am a huge Surefire fan, and I own a Z2 (with led head), the 8NX, and will soon be purchasing an 870 forend. The only problem I have ever had with Surefire is the rechargeable batteries.

You can research the battery issue further over at the candlepower forums. I remember someone testing the "new" batteries and the idle time on them was not much better than the old. Hopefully, you will not find your self holding two bad batteries. Best of luck!

[Sportcat]

The company I ordered the Commander from e-mailed me today to say they longer carry the Commander. Initally they said Surefire didn't make it anymore, but after a quick call to Surefire (very friendly, top-notch people), I was assured the Commander is still in production. Turns out the retail folks' supplier no longer keeps it in stock.

So, I went to www.tadgear.com and ordered the E2E, LED head, and 12 batteries. All for around $130.

Now I have to wait all over again.

[curt]

Sportcat,
I contacted SF when my batteries self discharged, they sent me new ones that self discharged. I gave up. They can get all pissy if they want about peoples perception but i raise the BS flag high if this dude can get a month before his batteries discharge.

SF makes great lights, no doubt about that. But they supply POS rechargeable batteries in my experience. I can't imagine spending that kind of money on another SF rechargeable.

Seems to be fairly typical in this line of business. You get a great product that everyone will pay whatever you want to charge for, then your QC starts slipping then you get an attitude about the user not understanding the product , then you wake up one morning and someone is providing a better product at a cheaper price.

But then what do i know.

[SureFireMarketing]

Curt,

The problem with e-mailing or posting is that the meaning is often misconstrued. If you are refering to my e-mail to Sportcat when you state, "They can get all pissy if they want..." then you misunderstood my intent. My intent was to acknowledge that some of the folks at thr.org have a negative perception of SureFire rechargeable batteries (they do) and that their perception had a basis in fact (it did), and to inform Sportcat that the issue is resolved. If you are not referring to my e-mail and did in fact have a negative experience with one of SureFire's customer support staff, then I hope you will take the time to PM me the details so I can investigate.

Also, no need to raise the BS flag, I just spoke with our senior scientist to reconfirm my initial statement about charge holding: A new, fully charged SureFire B90 Rechargeable Battery will only lose 20-30% of its charge if left unused at room temperature for one month.

If you had a set of bad batteries and received a bad replacement set as well, then I certainly understrand your frustration. I hope you will give us a chance to make it right by replacing that set with a new one now that our battery quality is back up to where it was before the glitch. If you want to pursue that option, contact helpyou@surefire.com.

Regards,

Derek McDonald
SureFire
Marketing Manager

[TechBrute]

I wish everyone stood behind their products like Surefire and Leupold.

[Sportcat]

Now that's service! BTW, Derek did give me permission to post his e-mail on this board.

I have no doubt that Surefire would NOT be selling rechargables if every customer has had experience such as Curts.

Derek, welcome to the High Road community!

[curt]

Okay derek. I have sent off an email as you suggested if this has been resolved i will be glad to post a retraction a month after getting my batteries.

Curt

[Sportcat]

My E2E came today. I'm very satisifed with the construction and the amount of light the comes out of it.

However, I did notice that the body is deeper green, while the "head" is more olive drab. Anyone else notice this on the Hard Anodized finishes?

[Jhaislet]

Thats fairly normal with anodized finishes if those parts were not done in the exact same batch or if the underlying metal composition differs slightly. I suspect the body and head might be made out of slightly different grades of aluminum due to their design. ie xxxx aluminum is stronger for straight-walled design (the body) where as yyyy aluminum is stronger for cnc machined peices like the "head". I'm sure Derek can shed some more "light" on the subject (no pun intended) :neener:

[CWL]

Look into the Streamlight line of rechargables. They have more experience in these products and many LE agencies issue them.

I have the SL-20X® model, which is comparable to regular D-Cell MagLight and is used by police & highway patrol agencies. Very bright , comes with a home & car charger, also useful as an impact weapon.

[Sportcat]

Okay derek. I have sent off an email as you suggested if this has been resolved i will be glad to post a retraction a month after getting my batteries.

Anything ever happen with this?

[laynlow]

Sportcat,

I received a replacement set of batteries also. I had not posted an update to this thread for a couple of reasons. First, I had not conducted any runtime comparisons of the new and old batteries. Second, I am still using the first replacement battery of the two that were sent!

I have deliberately not used this light much. The old batteries would drain quickly, and normally I would grab this light and quickly become frustrated when the light went dim in only a few seconds. So far this has not happened with my first replacement battery. This battery has held its charge for a very long time.

Although I was planning on a more through review, I now feel confident that Surefire has indeed taken care of this situation. If time permits I will test these batteries further, but currently I would not hesitate to buy another Surefire rechargeable.

BTW, Surefire's customer service was second to none. Period. I emailed Surefire, and within 24 hours I received a reply stating that two replacement batteries were on the way. I then sent a reply thanking Surefire for their customer service. I sent this reply after normal business hours, and within 10 minutes I received a "your welcome" email. One thing is for sure; Surefire backs their products.

[Skunkabilly]

I had a 6R and an 8NX (polymer). The 6R was a pretty good unit, and I liked the switch. I HATED the 8NX. I think I had the batteries (both of them) replaced at least twice, got some little cushions to put behind the batteries (better contact??), had the lamp assembly replaced, etc. and it still gave me the same problems. Went yellow a lot and poor contact. My thumb would get tired holding the thing down for long periods of time. I must have swung by Surefire (a few freeway exits from home) and they treated me good all the time, but couldn't get my 8NX running for whatever reason. Maybe my little thumbs were too weak for it :D

The 6R was a great unit, but sold it because I liked the E2e better. I got the rechargeables becuase this was before the batteries were $15 for 12. The problem with the rechargeables is they are bigger than the E2 type lights, but not as bright (as far as I could tell).

I'm happy with my A2, I have long life with the LEDs and the big light when I want it. I don't miss the rechargeables though the 10X is kinda neat :D

[curt]

Sportcat,
I started the "test" on november 4. So 30 days will be up next thursday. I'll let you guys know then.

[mercop]

One of the things I teach is lowlight tactics. In the beginning of the class I state that if you are carrying a pistol and do not have a light your are wrong. The second thing I say is that if the light is not Surefire it is a POS. Just my opinion. Just look at a SF beam next to a Streamlight. I have one of the old 8Xs and it is still going strong and I use it just about every day. I have a back up G2 in my Tac Vest a SF fore end on my 590 and a E2EHA off duty. Rechargables are good for every day use. If you go days with out using a light a better bet is one that is battery powered. Just get a G2 for backup and install a P61 lamp taking it from 60-110 lumens. You can heat food with that. :)

[curt]

If you go days with out using a light a better bet is one that is battery powered.

????

[mercop]

Lithiums do not drain. The store for 10 yrs. A rechargable will drain when not used. This is the reason Surefire forends all run on 123As. I would consider a rechargable more of a search light and a battery models a tac light.

[TechBrute]

The second thing I say is that if the light is not Surefire it is a POS. Wow, you are not only a firearms instructor, you are intimately familiar with every flashlight made. You must be, because otherwise that statement would be pretty ignorant.:rolleyes:

If you go days with out using a light a better bet is one that is battery powered. Yes, those solar powered lights are a little troublesome at night.:D

[curt]

Actually lithium, nicads, NimH are all batteries (that's what i couldn't understand about your previous post). The reason SF and others use the lithium cells is energy density, you can pack a lot more power into a 123 cell than you could a nicad.

[mercop]

It has nothing to do with being intimately familiar. I have used or seen used just about every make and model known. Part of most classes is equipment selection. If I am teaching the class I am going to advise them of what I have found to work. It is my opinion. I have used SFs alot and had only good dealings with their customer service. For that reason it is the light I back. The same thing goes for Mossberg shotguns. My way is not the only way but when my opinion is asked I will tell them what I have learned from my limited real life experience (as compared to some operators) , not from sitting on my ??? reading gun magazines ( although I do enjoy gun/knife/flashlight porn from time to time.):)


"Yes, those solar powered lights are a little troublesome at night." OK you got me on that one. :)

[TechBrute]

My way is not the only way but when my opinion is asked I will tell them what I have learned from my limited real life experience (as compared to some operators) , not from sitting on my ??? reading gun magazines ( although I do enjoy gun/knife/flashlight porn from time to time.)
The second thing I say is that if the light is not Surefire it is a POS. I would say that if you think that everything but Surefire is a POS, you have not used everything on the market. Saying that Surefire is the best flashlight brand that you are aware of might be more accurate.

[mercop]

OK, everything that I have owned, used, seen used or fondled besides Surefire was a POS.:)

[curt]

okay so here's the result of my "test".

Ran one of the new B90 battery packs from surefire, marked lot(?) CM10, through a charge/discharge cycle to condition it and after the charge measured the voltage and it was 4.23 volts. Next i ran it trough my 9AN flashlight with a KT3 turbo head, using the low/LED light setting. I had previously found out that it would shut down after about 20 minutes or so on the high setting, presumably due to a thermal breaker. Run time was 2 hours and 42 minutes before extinction (the light went dark). I then recharged the cell and set it aside for 30 days.

After 30 days the voltage was 3.89 volts (Note that the voltage is not an indicator of the remaining charge). I then ran it in my 9AN for 2 hours and 20 minutes before extinction.

Based on this one cell i guess i must admit i was wrong and derek seems to be right, surefire has corrected their B90 battery QA problem and now has batteries that do not discharge themselves over the course of a month.

Now if you'll excuse me i have a B90 battery to eat.

[Sportcat]

Curt,

You're a good man. Thanks for the update. Put a little ketchup on that B90. ;)