[makarov1989]

What are the most powerful and effective self defense loads for .38spl snubbies? I know this has probably been asked before so if you could point me to the threads or just give me the 3-4 best loads that people seem to like, I would apperciate it. I don't like those wierd loads like Glaser or prefragmented bullets or anything, I mean, real loads with lead bullets and copper jackets. :D

Also, if there a few that seem to be close in terms of power, what one is the cheapest and best buy?

[El Tejon]

I've always preferred the FBI load in snub .38s. I recommend Black Hills. YMMV.

[seeker_two]

In the HANDGUNS ANNUAL, Dan Johnson did a test of defensive ammo in bare & clothed gelatin from a snubby. From his posted results, I think that the Winchester 130gr. STX +P & the Hornaday 125gr. XTP non-+P have the best balance of expansion & penetration for .38spl snubs.

Of course, YYMV...:D

[Sox]

a couple of good sites with great info. www.ammolab.com, www.tacticalforums.com "terminal effects forum", www.firearmstactical.com They seem to recommed the winchester 148Gr wadcutter-seems wimpy, but it is backed by sound methodology not gunshop commando hype. :p

[Jim March]

There are a very small number of 38+Ps I'd trust to perform in a snubby. Three that I can get easy and have tested well in gelatin (both plain and denim-wrapped, tested in 2" barrels) are:

1) Winchester 130grain Supreme +P: it's a JHP with a freakin' HUGE hollowpoint cavity. I'd be willing to bet that a cavity that big just cannot work with a semi-auto. It'd hang up on the feed ramp.

2) The "old standard": 158grain plain soft lead hollowpoint (LSWC-HP) +P. Known as the "Treasury Police load", Chicago load", "Metro load" and similar for various police agencies that used to use it going literally all the way back to the 1920s. It's a primitive, old-school hollowpoint but it tends to expand fairly well at modest snubby-grade velocity and it's got the weight to punch deep. It's cheap, low-tech, not flashy and has been phased out completely by Federal, Remington has almost halted production and only Winchester still takes it seriously and even then it's hard to find.

3) The Gold Dot 125grain projectile loaded to 38+P speeds and of the shape *designed* for 38+P speeds versus 357. The right one is loaded by Proload, Georgia Arms and Black Hills, in addition to Speer.

There's maybe a couple more that are worth talking about in snubs. Those listed will get the job done.

[Dave Markowitz]

I like the FBI load. As Jim March noted it isn't flashy, but it has what it needs to get the job done. Even if it doesn't expand, it'll do damage like a SWC and punch deep.

[bpisler]

I like the black hills version of the 125gr +P gold dot for the 38.
It starts out 100fps faster than the speer load and 50 cost me 17.00 dollors.

[Lone Star]

These are good answers, but Jim, that lead Plus P HP round didn't arrive in factory form until about 1971-72. The original version was by Winchester. I've posted here before, I think, that when it was new, I called the local Winchester rep, who had to call the ammo plant in East Alton to inquire what the letters "MS" on the box meant. Turned out to stand for, "Maximum Service: which is just about what that load delivers, in .38 Special terms.

It is a great pity that it leads barrels readily, and that it's so hard to find.

Oh: I think that CIL/Dominion in Canada may have made it for the RCMP before US companies loaded that round.

Lone Star

[Jim March]

Hmmm...I've heard otherwise, but I don't have time to dig up sources right now.

[tbeb]

Winchester, Remington, or Federal +P 158 gr. lead hollowpoint.

[JERRY]

for now, until i hear back from cor-bon, i use the wwb 125gr. +p

that is my practice load anyway, in a ti snubbie it kickes just enough, and if it doesnt expand? well, it'll go plenty deep then wont it?

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Currently, I'm using Remington 158-gr LSWCHP +P for reasons listed here:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Feedingthe38Snub.htm

Best.

[Snowdog]

Winchester SWCHP+P has long been my favorite, though my M85CH is currently loaded with 110gr +P Corbon fodder.

I don't suspect one will notice any significant difference in "effectiveness" between various loads, especially of a caliber in this power bracket. As long as one can hit what he's shooting at, I think fate/luck/chance/whatever (situations outside his realm of control) pretty much takes the wheel from there.

Pick a load you're confident with and learn to put them where you want them. You can't ask for much more than that.

[MP-5]

Federal +P 158 gr. lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoint. :)

[George Hill]

Isn't the .38 "FBI LOAD" what caused the whole Magic Bullet movement? Because of it's failures during the Miami Massacre?

[BigG]

Isn't the .38 "FBI LOAD" what caused the whole Magic Bullet movement? Think you're right, George. 38 *cough* Special snub... whaddaya expect? TANSTAAFL, ya know. I carry mine as a deterrent. Hope dude starts running away before I have to fire. :eek:

[Sean Smith]

No, the load that got villified in that shootout was the standard 115gr Winchester Silvertip in 9x19mm. OTOH, the .38 Special LSWCHP +P load had decidedly mixed performance in that shootout too, but it didn't get the attention that the "failure" of the 9x19 load did. Put another way, nobody could come up with a better solution for a snubby .38 anyway...

[BigG]

Put another way, nobody could come up with a better solution for a snubby
.38 anyway... Mm, yeah. That's why I think of mine more as an impact weapon to jab and parry. ;) Take that to the eye socket, ya know... :cool:

[SnWnMe]

Well, since expansion will be a sometimes thing, trade expansion off for penetration. Pick a heavy bullet. I myself have regular pressure Nyclads. I don't know what the terminal performance is but it seems popular with some snubby users. Plus the blue color looks cool.

[Rob96]

Actually, in the infamous Miami shootout, the perps were nuetralized with 158gr +pLSWCHP's. The 9mm Silvertip took the fall in that fiasco.

[Sean Smith]

Actually, in the infamous Miami shootout, the perps were nuetralized with 158gr +pLSWCHP's. The 9mm Silvertip took the fall in that fiasco.

The 158gr LSWCHP +P also had failures to stop with short-range headshots in that incident. :eek:

[Mannlicher]

In my Snubbie Taurus, and my 3 inch Smith Mod 60, I tend to favor the NyClad 125 grain JHP, or the 129 grain HydroShock. Both are accurate, and perform well in the tests I have conducted. .

[Rob96]

I don't think the failure in the incident was totally amo related. It was the tactics that failed.

[BigG]

Here's a tip: Snubs are typically sighted for the 158 gr load, at least S&W. The lighter bullets will probably not shoot to where the sights are looking. Usually print low by several inches. YMMV

Here's a couple threads on the Miami FBI debacle:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12428&highlight=miami+AND+fbi

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13700&perpage=25&highlight=miami AND fbi&pagenumber=2

There is also a good one on TFL, should someone want to hunt it up. The key lesson I got is MINDSET; the bad guys, actually one, Platt, was prepared to go the distance and the feds were not, for the most part. The other BG, Mattix was out of the fight after receiving a shot to the head early on.