Rock Island 1911 vs. Taurus pt1911


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densecity
April 15, 2009, 02:59 PM
Hello -
I am planning on buying my first 1911 in the next week or so. I am stuck between purchasing the RIA or a Taurus. I want to spend less then $600 and later mod it if i choose to / have more $.

I like that the Taurus 1911's are a little more attractive, and I could find a nice SS version, however I have heard great things about the RIA's and the price is unbeatable.

Another quick question - If i bought an RIA 5" GI model, could I "drop in" such things as a beavertail and extended safeties without serious mods?

Can anyone comment on the functionality/accuracy of both? I am interested in hearing any opinions, especially if someone owns both.

Thanks

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Matt-J2
April 15, 2009, 03:22 PM
There are drop in beavertails available. I have a RIA GI and I'm trying to decide if I want to go the drop in route, mod the frame to fit a std beavertail, or leave it as is. I don't know how well the drop in types work, but they aren't too expensive.

Thomas Garrett
April 15, 2009, 03:23 PM
I'll only address the RIA. Sarco is the answer first of all. Cheapest prices. Now, Just make the move to the "Tactical" model, you get all the additionals that you want. Like $20.00 difference. But still under $500.00. i own 2 of thieir "tacticals". love'em both, great shooters. Nothing wrong with the Taurus's, the only thing (Heard) is their customer service, don't personally know though. But, one thing to consider, there are more modifications available for the RIA, being a 1911-A1 platform.

PS. Welcome to THR.

rondog
April 15, 2009, 04:00 PM
Go with the RIA Tactical from Sarco, you won't be disappointed! See if they have the satin nickel finished model, those are sweet.

I took a RIA GI model and put my own Tactical parts on it. The hammer and trigger dropped right in, but the beavertail required a LOT of grinding and filing on the frame to make it fit nice, then I had it blued. It turned out gorgeous, but a stock Tactical is far more practical.

I'm not a Taurus fan.

The RIA Tactical in satin nickel....

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/RIATacticalsatin01.jpg

My homebuilt Tactical.....

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/DSCN1365.jpg

SWC Bonfire
April 15, 2009, 04:14 PM
I have the RIA tactical, it handles very well, shoots great and has good sights/trigger pull. It is probably worth it over the base model. I bought it used, but even the new prices were much cheaper than a taurus when I checked.

If you are looking for something to hotrod later, you might be better off finding a used Norinco; from what I've heard they are made from P20 tool steel and very good cantidates for a custom gun starting point.

spiroxlii
April 15, 2009, 04:30 PM
I say it in every 1911 thread, and I'll say it again. I was in the market for my first 1911. I actually wanted one with NO bells and whistles. I wanted something as close to the ones that were issued in the 1940s as possible. I was going to go with a plain RIA 1911 when the guy at the shop managed to talk me into a slightly more expensive Springfield Armory GI.45 model.

The "GI.45" from SA is actually closer to mil-spec than the SA "Mil-Spec" model is. Weird. Anyway, the thing didn't work right out of the box. It wouldn't feed ANY JHP, and it would fail to return to battery quite often with FMJ. After sending it to SA (great customer service, btw), all the issues are fixed; HOWEVER, the finish on this gun (mine is grey parkerized) seems cheap, and it's already wearing off in some places.

I wish I had purchased the RIA.

kentucky_smith
April 15, 2009, 04:37 PM
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/AC-RI1911TAC.aspx


Get the Rock. Customer service is great, they've been around long enough to have gained a great reputation.

To me, there is too big of a danger that the PT1911 will turn into another Gaucho.

Thingster
April 15, 2009, 04:53 PM
I have a buddy witha PT1911- he loved it until he shot my RIA. He proceeded to sell it off and get a Tactical.

The PT1911 was more aesthetically refined than my RIA A1, but the RIA was more mechanically refined. Better trigger, more positive safety feel, and a better feel in the hand.

My RIA also fed more reliably. His wouldn't process a SWC for anything.

The tactical has the aesthetic refinement of the PT and the mechanicl refinement of the A1.

Just remember, if at all possible handle the exact gun that you will be buying prior to buying it. See if it really is what you want.

powwowell
April 15, 2009, 05:13 PM
This is another vote for the RIA Tactical.

I have no beefs with the PT1911, but I think the RIA Tactical is the better value. If you need it, customer service is great. So I've heard. I've never had to call on Ivan.

Quoheleth
April 15, 2009, 05:25 PM
+1 on the Rock Island *Tactical*

-1 on Sarco.

Check Bellshire Guns (aka Bellshire Hardware) on Gunbroker. He's slightly more expensive ($25-50), but he'll ship it out of his store the next day. I ordered a RIA Compact 1911 from him via GB. Had it within 72 hours of clicking "Buy Now."

People who ordered their Compact from Sarco two weeks before me are still waiting...they saved about $30, but I'm endulging in immediate gratification :D

Q

Jimfern
April 15, 2009, 05:30 PM
I have been thinking real hard about getting the 38 Super version myself. The reviews seem to mostly be great and the prices are great.

rondog
April 15, 2009, 06:21 PM
38 Super

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have been thinking real hard about getting the 38 Super version myself. The reviews seem to mostly be great and the prices are great.

I've also heard those are great, but you'd better check on ammo availability first. .38 Super isn't very common, might cost more than you'd like too. When WWB .45 auto was common, WalMart had stacks of it for $29.98/100. Never saw any .38 Super there.

But, everyone says that 1911's in that caliber are awesome shooters.

rdhood
April 15, 2009, 06:27 PM
I just got the RIA Tactical from Sarco (like... day before yesterday). I haven't taken it shooting just yet.

Anyway, the Tactical is about $50 more than the GI at Sarco. For $50, you get a beavertail/hammer, a skeletonized trigger, upgraded sights. That's easily more than $50 in upgrades if you made them yourself, and well worth it. I paid $426 shipped with an extra magazine for the Tactical model substantially similar to rondog's.

HZOX221
April 15, 2009, 06:32 PM
Neither

Go with an STI Spartan

EHL
April 15, 2009, 06:34 PM
Boy I'm gonna be in the minority here, but I'd opt with Taurus. Forged frame and slide as opposed to cast frame and slide offered by RIA? For me it's a no brainer there.

Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly care for either one, but I'd opt for forged over cast anyday.

Hammerhead6814
April 15, 2009, 06:38 PM
Warning about Rock Island Armory 1911's:
In my experience, the safety is EXTREMELY stiff. Every single RIA .45 I've held before at a gun shop (new RIA's), had this feature.

I don't know if that is just a certain model, or if a new RIA can be cured of this with a break-in, but the safety, out of the box, is very, very stiff. It took me and the guys behind the counter at Show Me Shooters two hands each to disengage it.

nelson133
April 15, 2009, 06:43 PM
I've got 3 RIAs, never had a problem with a stiff safety.

kentucky_smith
April 15, 2009, 07:01 PM
Huh? Never seen that one before.

rondog
April 15, 2009, 07:07 PM
Boy I'm gonna be in the minority here, but I'd opt with Taurus. Forged frame and slide as opposed to cast frame and slide offered by RIA? For me it's a no brainer there.

Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly care for either one, but I'd opt for forged over cast anyday.

Here we go again....RIA slides are milled from barstock, not cast. And show us a cast frame that's failed, please.

Warning about Rock Island Armory 1911's:
In my experience, the safety is EXTREMELY stiff. Every single RIA .45 I've held before at a gun shop (new RIA's), had this feature.

I don't know if that is just a certain model, or if a new RIA can be cured of this with a break-in, but the safety, out of the box, is very, very stiff. It took me and the guys behind the counter at Show Me Shooters two hands each to disengage it.

No telling what the problem was, if any. Probably just needed a little breaking in. Snap it a couple dozen times and I bet that would be gone. Anyway, you don't want a 1911 with a loose, floppy thumb safety, otherwise it'll be going off-safe when you don't want it to.

presspuller
April 15, 2009, 08:39 PM
We have have a rule here where I live....Friends do not let friends buy taurus.
Go with the RIA.

Searcher1970
April 15, 2009, 08:46 PM
I'd go with RIA. I had one and loved it, like a idiot I traded it away. I plan on getting another though.

densecity
April 15, 2009, 08:53 PM
ok sounds like RIA it is. anyone have the satin nickel in stock? gimme.

Deltaboy
April 15, 2009, 09:03 PM
RIA TAC vote from the Deltaboy

PT1911
April 15, 2009, 09:08 PM
I own a PT1911... Obviously.... was my second gun purchase and I have been more than happy with it... it will shoot anything and everything I feed it, shoots more accurately than my springfield 1911 and kimbers that I have had the opportunity to shoot. first thing I did was change the grips as the black rubber dont do the gun justice, then added an extended slide release....now, I am trying to think of what to next, but there really isnt anything.. it has everything I could want already... I am impressed... and, seeing as I got the straight 8 sites, I love that variation as well...

Texastbird
April 15, 2009, 09:24 PM
Well the PT1911 gets a lot of bashing around this forum, but I still am very happy with mine. Its not a $1000 Kimber, but neither is the RIA. I like the idea of the tactical Rock a lot better than the GI one, since you are probably going to want some of the upgrades later on if not sooner. If you get the Taurus, there is nothing to add on except for the custom grips of your choice.

spiroxlii
April 15, 2009, 10:37 PM
It may just be a rumor, but I've heard twice now from different sources that the RIA/Armscor plant in the Philippines got some of their machinery and dies from an old Colt plant here in the USA. I'm not saying that RIA 1911s are OMG TOTALLY COLTS!!! It's just an interesting fact, if true.

I have nothing against Taurus or South American guns in general. I own a few Bersas (Argentina) that have been lovely to me, and I've seen a couple of Taurus revolvers that were solid and reliable, but they were a bit less smooth than the S&Ws that they copied, internally speaking. They were also priced too close to the "real thing" (S&W) to make it worth buying them. If Taurus revolvers were just a LITTLE bit less expensive than they are, then the price gap between them and S&W revolvers would be wide enough to make me buy a Taurus. I've never tried a Taurus auto.

My 1911 is kinda Brazilian... the frame (and possibly other parts, but I don't know for sure) was made by Imbel in Brazil. For what it's worth, my partially Brazilian Springfield Armory 1911 didn't make me happy until after I sent it back to SA for repairs. Maybe that's why I'm inclined to recommend the Philippine RIA over the Brazilian Taurus.

greener
April 15, 2009, 11:01 PM
I'm certainly in a minority. I bought a PT1911 about 2 years ago and really like the pistol. For all the legendary Taurus failures I haven't had anything go wrong with the pistol. It is darn easy to shoot accurately up to 25 yards. Past that I can't say, never tried it.

I didn't like the grips, so for $20 I fixed that major Taurus problem. If I were in the market for another 1911, I'd seriously consider a Taurus. I've also looked at the RIA and the Springer Mil-Spec and would consider them because I have a Taurus.

Thomas Garrett
April 16, 2009, 07:10 AM
On the satin nickel, call Sarco first, if they don't have any in stock then call Bellshire Hardware in Nashville Tennessee. Ask for Phil, He can help you out. Good luck.:)

Again, Welcome to THR.

Taurus_9mm
April 16, 2009, 08:11 AM
Another vote for the PT1911... I love mine so much I'm considering adding another one (Or two) at some future point.

www.taurusarmed.net

combatantr2
April 16, 2009, 08:28 AM
If price is not an issue get the PT1911. If customer service in the future is a concern get the RIA. If you pretty much wanted the RIA line get the lowest end STI 1911, STI have partnered with RIA but according to STI quality standards, not that theres something wrong with RIA QC.

I do still believe Taurus has a tougher QC compared to RIA. Taurus being made in Brazil is more in line with competing with SA's over-all quality.

Now the question is the PT1911s key-lock safety :mad:. If your okey with that then go for it. But if you have every intention to hotrod a 1911 get the NORINCO, tougher than anything else out there.

Goodluck anyway.

spiroxlii
April 16, 2009, 08:32 AM
I do still believe Taurus has a tougher QC compared to RIA. Taurus being made in Brazil is more in line with competing with SA's over-all quality.

For a lot of us SA owners, that isn't a good argument in favor of Taurus. We've all heard about how great SA customer service is. The only reason we know that is because we've had to use it. :)

rbernie
April 16, 2009, 08:32 AM
I have owned multiple copies of both, and this decision (like most things in life) is not black-n-white. Here's my take, first with the easy stuff.

The RIA has MIM bits in it. The Taurus has MIM bits in it. No clear winner...

The Taurus has a firing pin safety. The RIA does not. I value the firing pin safety in a carry gun, not so much in a range gun. Your call.

The Taurus frame is forged. The RIA frame is cast. I value the forged frame.

The RIA frame is not nearly as well-finished as the Taurus; I've had four RIAs and they all had poor machine work in the frame just in front of the bed and two of them would not accept USGI recoil spring guide rods without fitting (narrowing the guide rod flange). The RIA frame dimensions are also not held nearly as closely to spec as are the Taurus; cross-pin locations and dimensions will vary slightly from pistol to pistol and make fitting replacement bits more difficult.

In the end, the Taurus is actually a better made piece, but with MIM bits that have reportedly (on the Internet :) ) somewhat suspect reliability when compared to the RIA. The RIA is not as well made, but they're reported to suffer less bits breakages.

If I wanted a pistol that I would not modify (other than maybe grips) and that I would use at the range and not for carry purposes, I would get the RIA. If I wanted a pistol to make in my own image over time or was set on this as a carry pistol, I would get the Taurus (for it's higher frame quality and firing pin safety). If I bought another Taurus, the first thing I'd do is replace the sear and hammer and disconnector with billet bits.

One side note - stay away from the RIA nickel finish if you intend to either shoot it a lot or do any changes to the pistol. It's not that durable, and it does not allow 'fitting' to be done the way that blued metal can be fitted and reblued.

Oh, and another side note - every RIA I've bought had a fine film of grit on it and needed to be flushed and lubed before using it. Weird. The latest ones (and the ones with Citadel rollmarked on the side instead of Rock Island) are DRIPPING in shipping lube and really need a cleanup before use.

combatantr2
April 16, 2009, 08:45 AM
>>>For a lot of us SA owners, that isn't a good argument in favor of Taurus. We've all heard about how great SA customer service is. The only reason we know that is because we've had to use it.<<<

Too bad if thats the case. But im still leaning towards TAURUS. With Brazil in the spot as base of manufacture for two major competing firearms company, for me that is something.

densecity
April 16, 2009, 09:42 AM
rbernie - what makes the satin nickle finish on an RIA less durable then other guns with the same finish?

Olympus
April 16, 2009, 10:19 AM
I own the Taurus but I looked at RIAs as well before making my decision. Both of the versions, Taurus and RIA, have very poor finishes. But what sold me was the way they felt, especially when you rack the slide. The fit and solid feel was a lot more evident in the Taurus than in the RIA. The slide was tighter in the Taurus. The RIAs I handled hand some play in the slide. I would say that neither are perfect. They both have their drawbacks. My Taurus had a broken safety which is very common for them. I sent it back and got it fixed for free. Taurus paid the shipping both ways. Their customer service was great in my case. They returned the gun in a decent amount of time.

The decision I made was the Taurus over the RIA. If I had it to do over again, I would have held out for the stainless Taurus. If you like stainless, I would easily pick that over the satin nickel RIA model. Also, don't know if it matters, but Taurus has the tactical rail option. Not sure if RIA does.

EHL
April 16, 2009, 10:48 AM
+1 with rbernie

Denscity, if you're really looking into getting a 1911 that is at least a "good start" look into 1911's that are forged and not cast. Don't let anybody tell you that "cast is just as good as forged" that's BS. Sure some companies do pretty good casts that can take alot of abuse, but that still doesn't change the fact that forging is the way to make metal the strongest. It's alot more expensive hence why lower end pistol manufacturers almost always use cast recievers and slides since it saves on cost big time. The internet is repleat with pics of cracked frames and slides. heck even forged recievers and slides crack and break, but cast recievers tend to do so even earlier than a forged one will. If I were going to be buying this as a carry gun, I'd insist on forged. If this is a just a plinking, never will carry, depend-my-life-on-it-gun, then I wouldn't hesitate buying the RIA.

spiroxlii
April 16, 2009, 10:52 AM
Don't stop at one 1911. Get yourself a few "entry level" models! After you've handled the STI, RIA/Armscor, SA, and Taurus models, sell the one(s) you hate. :)

If only it weren't for that pesky money issue...

ol' scratch
April 16, 2009, 11:00 AM
Hi
I have a Rock Island and it has been great. It is the standard Mil spec without the frills. I bought it last fall for $380. The only issue I have ever had with it has been with magazines. Mine didn't like the Novak mag it came with. Use Wilson Combat Mags. MOST 1911s like Wilson Mags. They are a little more expensive, but well worth it. Mine doesn't even bite me but I have small hands. Use the money you will save when you buy the Rock to get into reloading-you have to feed it. I have never fired the Taurus PT1911, but I have held it. The model I picked up was too light. Heavier pistols absorb felt recoil. That is not to say that the Taurus is not well made. I have fired Taurus revolvers in the past (including the Judge) and they were top notch. I am sure that their 1911 is great as well, but you just can't beat the price and quality of the Rock.

1200 rounds (800 reloaded)
No problems after the standard 500 round break in period of a 1911 and switching to Wilson Mags.

WoofersInc
April 16, 2009, 11:58 AM
One thing to consider and someone correct me if I am wrong. I have been told that upgrade parts are harder to fit to the Taurus. The RIA being GI spec will take aftermarket parts more readily. If true one thing to look at.
I have 1911's from both of these companies and both are great guns for the money.

Olympus
April 16, 2009, 12:31 PM
Is the Taurus not mil-spec? I haven't heard of this. :confused:

Even if it is true, not all aftermarket parts for 1911s are "drop-in". Some require some hand fitting no matter what the manufacturer.

Thomas Garrett
April 16, 2009, 12:33 PM
I have 2 of the satin framed RIA Bi-Tone FS, Love Em!, Haven't had any problems with the finish on either. No internals / shooting problems. Clean them after every range session. Approx. 3000 + rounds in each. Dead on on both at 25 yards. Only change was the Mags, went with Chip Mc Cormicks (Mostly for the Bumpers). Factory Mags still work fine. As for the MIM parts and Cast vs. Forged. In my book that's a weak argument. Every pistol now a days have something "wrong" in them (opinions). What's the next argument Cast / Forged Steel vs. Plastic / Polymer and don't forget the MIM"s? What's the lifetime on Plastic / polymer pistols? Now there's a good thread. What i'm really trying to say, there's always someones "negative" opinion on everything. Both pistols will work fine in their respective use intentions. I went through the same about 6 months ago, Taurus vs. Sa. vs. RIA. Well, i decided on a SA. Mil-Spec. and bought my first RIA about a month later just for seeing the difference. (My friend had a Taurus PT1911) already tried it. Well, I kept the SA, and Bought another RIA. Please don't get the wrong idea, i'm not ranting or anything. It's alway's a hard decision for a "first" handgun. Good luck in your decision.

Ps. My friend with the Taurus traded it in on a RIA Tactical.

Olympus
April 16, 2009, 12:38 PM
There has to be some amount of weight to the forged vs cast argument. You don't see many Baers, Kimbers, Colts, etc with cast frames. With companies always looking at ways to keep their costs down, you'd think that if there wasn't much of a difference between the two then you'd see cast frames on higher end models as well.

For me, the proof is in the pudding so to speak.

Thomas Garrett
April 16, 2009, 12:45 PM
Olympus, I Agree whole-heartedly. But then Why are there so many "Top-end" pistol frames made out of Polymer?

Zundfolge
April 16, 2009, 01:00 PM
Neither

Go with an STI Spartan
I second this (assuming you can find a Spartan in your price range)

Its built on the same Armscor frame that the RIA is built on, but its assembled by the good folk at STI (and the internals are STI). There's a good reason people spend over two grand for an STI.

Thomas Garrett
April 16, 2009, 01:09 PM
I'd agree with the STI also. (if you have that kind of money). But there's an alternative. The RIA Citidel. (same as the STI). but in that price range, Custom is the way to go. i.e. Night Hawk, Caspain, Colt custom shop, SA custom shop there's alot of high-end's. But let's keep in mind the OP does not want to spend over $600.00. Best bang for the buck- RIA. Lifetime warranty and GOOD cs.

Olympus
April 16, 2009, 01:37 PM
Polymer pistols and 1911s are apples and oranges though.

Deanimator
April 16, 2009, 01:49 PM
I've also heard those are great, but you'd better check on ammo availability first. .38 Super isn't very common, might cost more than you'd like too. When WWB .45 auto was common, WalMart had stacks of it for $29.98/100. Never saw any .38 Super there.

But, everyone says that 1911's in that caliber are awesome shooters.
When I get back to work, I'll be getting one. Ammunition cost is a non-issue for me. I reload for EVERY centerfire handgun caliber I have, and .38 Super will be no exception. I'm sure that SOMEWHERE, I can find several magazines worth of .38 Super defensive ammunition for carry. That's all the factory ammunition I need.

Thomas Garrett
April 16, 2009, 02:13 PM
Olympus, What i'm getting at is the Price's. I'm a steel person. I will never own a Plastic pistol, so, cast vs. forged makes no difference to me. I love shooting against the "high Dollar" 1911's and kick their butts at 25 yards off-handed. I shoot against Kimber's, Colt's, Nighthawk's, STI's, Caspain, etc. on a weekly basis with my RIA's and SA Milspec.. When you look at the targets- no difference!, Yes, i would like to own a "top-notch" 1911 someday, (mostly as a hand-me-down to my grand-son). But this thread was started for a beginner with a budget. $600.00. All we need to do is give the OP a Honest "opinion" for his choice.

Olympus
April 16, 2009, 02:53 PM
I understand. And I posted earlier on what my opinion was. I understand you were answering what the OP was asking. You also commented on what rbernie said concerning cast vs forged frames. As for the MIM parts and Cast vs. Forged. In my book that's a weak argument.

My comments afterwards were specifically addressing what you said. I'm not telling the OP to buy a Baer, Kimber or Colt and I'm not saying to go above his budget. I only mentioned high end 1911s as proof that their might be more to the cast vs forged argument. The OP might want to give more thought to whether or not that was important to him. I'm not saying there is or isn't. What I said is that you typically see forged frames on higher end guns and cast frames on lower end models. If I'm comparing two different pistols in the same price range, the one that has more features similar to a higher end model might be more appealing to someone. That's the point I was trying to make.

densecity
April 16, 2009, 02:55 PM
i would love a $1000+ 1911, but i wont spend it. to tell you the truth, i wont spend that much on any gun, accept maybe an AR. In general, i have a great love for simple machines that work and are rugged. im big on AK's, CZ's, and other proven rugged weapons.

it's a hobby to me but theres a limit at what i would spend on a weapon... there are many 600ish guns that will accurately put a whole in paper, or a person.

I really appreciate all the help thus far, im thinking RIA. Although id like a satin nickle so maybe i'll have to wait and look around.

Thanks for all the help thus far.

Olympus
April 16, 2009, 03:03 PM
Nobody is recommending $1000 1911 pistols. Just trying to show that one of the models has more features that you would find on a higher priced 1911. They're both good guns and you'll be happy with either I would say. But if you're not concerned with many features then no biggie.

If you're leaning toward the satin nickel, you should really check out the stainless Taurus then to get a good comparison. For me, I'd rather have a stainless than a nickel. I've had nickel pistols before. If they're something that you plan on getting a lot of use out of, you have to be careful with the nickel finish. It will eventually flake given enough wear and tear. You won't have that problem with stainless. There are a lot of people who think nickel is a higher maintenance finish than regular bluing.

Thomas Garrett
April 16, 2009, 03:54 PM
Densecity, The two (RIA's), i only shown 1 in a post prior. Both were $465.00. I've got 2 of them, one for me and one for my wife. Both has over 3,000 rounds through. I've noticed no "flaking" on the Satin Nickel finishes. But, maybe original versions may have had a problem. The original "Tacticals" with the full lengh GR. Don't know. But the newer "Tacticals" (how you can tell- 2 peice GR's and Novac Sights, Polished feed ramps). Their fantastic "starter" .45's. I'm in no way discounting anybody's opinion in your thread. It's going to be your first .45. Is there any range nearby that you can rent? It's your "money" and your decision. All i can say this is a good thread you created. Good luck in your decision, and Happy Shooting!

rbernie
April 16, 2009, 04:36 PM
what makes the satin nickle finish on an RIA less durable then other guns with the same finishTwo issues; it seems to thin mo' quickly than did the nickel finish on my CZ75Bs, and it chips off with heavy use in the high-wear areas inside of the frame. I much prefer the blued finish for its durability and the fact that it can be touched up.

I have been told that upgrade parts are harder to fit to the Taurus. The RIA being GI spec will take aftermarket parts more readily.Actually, my experience has been the exact opposite. The Taurus holds tolerances on the dimensions to spec much better than does the RIA. The only area where the Taurus clearly deviates from spec is in the inclusion of the safety lock in the hammer, and that's easily fixed by swapping out the offending parts.

turkeythigh
April 16, 2009, 04:54 PM
go with a mil spec though there are more options when it comes to getting spare parts.

kentucky_smith
April 16, 2009, 05:21 PM
I've found the RIA's to always be in spec and a good base for a platform. I built these using Rock frames.



http://www.shepsworld.com/sale/IMG_0102.JPG

http://www.shepsworld.com/1911build/IMG_0071.JPG

acmax95
April 16, 2009, 10:12 PM
I have both a Taurus PT1911 and a RIA Tactical. I have had the RIA for a little over a year and had zero problems out of it i am probably around the 700 round mark with it.

I have had the Taurus for about a month and shot about 100 rounds through it with no problems. I bought it used so I don't know the actual round count for that gun.

I am completely happy with both guns but probably wouldn't have the Taurus if the gun store would have had another Tactical when I bought the Taurus.

PT1911
April 16, 2009, 10:15 PM
Actually, my experience has been the exact opposite. The Taurus holds tolerances on the dimensions to spec much better than does the RIA. The only area where the Taurus clearly deviates from spec is in the inclusion of the safety lock in the hammer, and that's easily fixed by swapping out the offending parts.

thank you for clearing that up!!!! I am so tired of hearing people say this about the PT1911.. it is seriously grasping at something to complain about...

SWING AND A MISS!!!!

funny book flapjack
April 16, 2009, 11:19 PM
I bought a RIA Tactical from Centerfire last year, & I really like it. No problems so far. The Novack mag & my Colt mags run fine in it. In fact-- other than the looks of the sweet bluing on my Colt 70 repro, I actually kinda prefer the RIA (at least shooting it, 'cause the beavertail fits my hand better). I know-- blasphemy! I'd probably prefer shooting the Colt if I tricked it out with a beavertail, but the RIA came with it for $400 + transfer.

All I've replaced on it are the grips (put on VZ Aliens), so I can't really speak to replacement parts fitting it well or not.

My brother-in-law has the Taurus (I've never shot it), & he loves it. I seem to remember that he did have some small problem with it at first (can't remember what though), but he fixed it quickly & swears by it now.

I personally prefer the looks of the RIA's, simply because I don't like the looks of the front slide serrations & the Taurus logo, but whatever, that's just preference on looks.

They seem to be about the 2 best 1911 deals for their price range these days, so you probably can't go wrong with either. Pick the one with the features ya like most, & you'll enjoy.

bubbaturbo
April 17, 2009, 09:30 AM
So if I'm following along correctly, it sounds like the STI is a "high-end" pistol with a cast frame. Is that right?

nero45acp
April 17, 2009, 09:33 AM
Another RIA vote here.

As to the cast -vs- forged frame issue, didn't FN/Browning Hi Powers go from a forged frame to cast one so that they'd hold up better for the .40 S&W chambering?...


nero

KS1911
April 17, 2009, 09:54 AM
Have had my RIA for about 5 years now. It's my main pistol I shoot at local matches. Zero problems with the Pistol. Just recently picked up the Taurus PT1911. Like it as well. Have not shot it as much, but I like all the extra "bells and whistles" that it comes standard with. I had to put a couple hundred dollars into my RIA to get it to the same status the Taurus came standard with. Over all, I now love them both. I guess I'm not much help!

I know one thing, my buddies both had tricked out Springfields (probably at least $700 worth each) and their 1911's did not shoot any better or function any better than my $350 RIA!

rbernie
April 17, 2009, 10:19 AM
it sounds like the STI is a "high-end" pistol with a cast frame. Is that right?Not really. The STIs made on the cast frame are their 'bargain' line. Their high-end line (on which they gained their reputation) does not use the cast frame.

As to the cast -vs- forged frame issue, didn't FN/Browning Hi Powers go from a forged frame to cast one so that they'd hold up better for the .40 S&W chambering?...
Absolutely, but not because casting gave them better fatigue resistance but because they increased specific frame dimensions. Since they had to make new tooling anyway, they went to casting because they could make them via casting mo' cheaply than forging it.

There is nothing WRONG with cast metal, if done well. It's just that the design needs to account for the method of construction, to ensure that there are no thin areas where the less-dense structure of cast might pose issues.

ol' scratch
April 17, 2009, 10:25 AM
Hi there,

I posted earlier on the Rock and that still holds true, but if I had the choice between a Taurus and Kimber I would go for the Kimber. The Custom II (at least in my area) is very close in price to the Taurus. I paid $750 for my Kimber last November. The price for the Taurus is around $660 in this area. I did decide to buy the Kimber because I liked the Rock so much (I know, it is odd, but I had an evil black rifle that destroyed brass and traded it in on the Kimber. And can you really have too many 1911s?). My Kimber is as reliable as the Rock BUT it is much more accurate. For the price, it had better be. Some of the high end features I like are-

Forged Frame and slide
Smooth frame to slide fit
Great trigger
Extended beaver tail safety
One piece match grade barrel

All three pistols have the EVIL MIM parts. Some people make a big deal out of that. The Kimber was the only one out of the three that was tested and later adopted by SWAT. It does have a Swartz safety but I don't mind. It gives me a little more piece of mind.

I know that the post was specifically about the Taurus and the Rock, but don't disprove some of the other manufacturers. When I looked at the Kimber, you could get a mil spec Springer for $500, or in stainless for $550.

If you are concerned about the cast frame as comparied to the forged, keep in mind that Caspian frames (highly regarded) are cast and used in many high end builds. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I THINK the original 1911s were cast. I do remember what my mother taught me about the word assume, so please set me right if I am wrong.

Olympus
April 17, 2009, 10:40 AM
That price on the Taurus you gave is a little inflated. At least around my area. You can pick up the stainless model for about $620. The blued ones are well below $600. I picked my blued up for $450 when they first came out. It was NIB, but bought from another person though so I doubt it was that cheap in the store.

Thomas Garrett
April 17, 2009, 10:47 AM
I looked around last night at the store, Taurus's are all over $600.00 now in my area. I even seen a RIA GI for $509.00. Crazy!

ol' scratch
April 17, 2009, 11:50 AM
"That price on the Taurus you gave is a little inflated. At least around my area. You can pick up the stainless model for about $620. The blued ones are well below $600. I picked my blued up for $450 when they first came out. It was NIB, but bought from another person though so I doubt it was that cheap in the store."
Olympus,
Great price on your Taurus. I was quoting a price I saw at a local dealer on sale for $660. It seemed high to me too. I have noticed prices have been increasing on 1911s. I too have seen a Rock Island (used) with a $500 price tag. Some of the election paranoia I think is causing the rise in prices. I haven't seen the recent pricing on the Kimber Custom II. It may have increased dramatically too.

Texastbird
April 17, 2009, 01:26 PM
The Taurus is $579 at a local sporting goods store here in the Houston area. I haven't seen any RIAs except occasionally at a gun show. The shooting range I go to has a Citadel for just under $600. It looks pretty good, but I wouldn't trade my PT1911 for it. I haven't seen any other 1911 pistols for anywhere near this price.

rbernie
April 17, 2009, 03:43 PM
Citadel == the new name for RIA. Locally, they are $550 guns and the Taurus is about fifty more.

Ol' Scatch - the 1911 spec was always for a forged frame, never cast.

rbernie
April 17, 2009, 03:43 PM
Citadel == the new name for RIA. Locally, they are $550 guns and the Taurus is about fifty more.

Ol' Scratch - the 1911 spec was always for a forged frame, never cast.

KS1911
April 17, 2009, 04:31 PM
I bought my PT1911 Blued locally from an individual for $425 FTF. I thought I did pretty well considering the ones locally hear new are close to $600.

rondog
April 17, 2009, 05:50 PM
Citadel == the new name for RIA.

Sez who? Never heard of Armscor producing anything named Citadel. Is this new?

Beagle-zebub
April 17, 2009, 07:07 PM
Yep, it's new.

ol' scratch
April 17, 2009, 07:50 PM
Ol' Scatch - the 1911 spec was always for a forged frame, never cast.


Thanks Rbernie. I wasn't sure if I was correct or not. Ignorance is curable. Stupidity is permanent and typically follows a reluctance to learn.

Beagle-zebub
April 17, 2009, 08:36 PM
Did they even have the means for casting good-quality steel in those days, though? And granted, while it may have been designed around the method of forging the frame, that doesn't necessarily mean that a cast part is not a perfectly good substitute.

rbernie
April 17, 2009, 10:55 PM
Sez who? Never heard of Armscor producing anything named Citadel. Is this new?The imported Armscor 1911 is now going to be sold under the Citadel name and not the RIA name. They both are in the pipeline right now as old inventory is sold off and new inventory slowly hits. Come six months from now, you'll not see RIAs in the pipeline any more.

UpTheIrons
April 18, 2009, 12:36 AM
Olympus said:
"That price on the Taurus you gave is a little inflated. At least around my area. You can pick up the stainless model for about $620. The blued ones are well below $600. I picked my blued up for $450 when they first came out. It was NIB, but bought from another person though so I doubt it was that cheap in the store."

Around here, (South-Central Texas) The Taurus is running $570-600 for blued and $650-700 for stainless.

Ol' Scratch said:
Great price on your Taurus. I was quoting a price I saw at a local dealer on sale for $660. It seemed high to me too. I have noticed prices have been increasing on 1911s. I too have seen a Rock Island (used) with a $500 price tag. Some of the election paranoia I think is causing the rise in prices. I haven't seen the recent pricing on the Kimber Custom II. It may have increased dramatically too.

I have a used (1 year old with Meprolight Night Sights) Custom II on layaway right now that I found for $650. For that price, it was a no-brainer over both the Taurus and RIA.

YMMV

kentucky_smith
April 18, 2009, 07:04 AM
Citadel are Armscors imported by Legacy Sports.
Rock Island are Armscors imported by Advanced Tactical.

Warranty for both is still handled by Ivan Walcott of Advanced Tactical in Pahrump, NV.

Thomas Garrett
April 18, 2009, 08:12 AM
Anyone seen or purchased the Citadel 6" yet? How Much?

rondog
April 18, 2009, 03:03 PM
Citadel are Armscors imported by Legacy Sports.
Rock Island are Armscors imported by Advanced Tactical.

Warranty for both is still handled by Ivan Walcott of Advanced Tactical in Pahrump, NV.

So RIA's will still be around?

Eyesac
April 21, 2009, 07:03 PM
Citadel says on their site that they have forged frames... I though RIA was cast???

HammerheadSSN663
April 21, 2009, 10:02 PM
"That being said, I have recently tested two 1911s that are pure GI. They are made in the Philippines but are more loyal to the 1911 template than most anything made in the good old USA. The Filipinos have been good allies and have a respectable handgun heritage. Many a Japanese soldier’s last sight was a Filipino Guerilla aiming a 1911 at him. So, if someone has to make a 1911 clone let them do it if they can do it well. In my opinion, they have succeeded admirably.

A real 1911, not alloyed with any bells and whistles

The handguns are marketed in America under the name Rock Island Armory."

ol' scratch
June 30, 2009, 11:26 AM
According to this site, the citadel is cast. I realize the thread is old. Just adding some info for those of you interested in the Citadel

http://www.legacysports.com/products/citadel/index.html

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