[sltm1]

I used to reload several years ago, but had to stop and sell my stuff for medical bills. I'm going to do some on a small basis (using a Lee hand loader), for 45lc that I shoot in both a Rogers and Spencer w/ an R&D conversion cylinder and a 45 lever action I've yet to buy (decisions, decisions). Loads and fps are my questions. I'm using Unique, and w/ 9g and a 255g bullet I'll get about 950fps. Is that too much pressure for Italian metal? What would 8.5 and 8g of Unique give me using the same bullet? Also, do you have to size new brass before putting in the primer?

[SlamFire1]

Let me recommend 8.0 grains Unique. Now I have shot tens of thousands of 8.5 grains Unique with a 250/255, but cutting the load a half a grain still gives excellent accuracy and will be easier on your vintage guns.

My data below, I have 1993 vintage Unique, one 2006 lot, .452 and 454 bullets, and 250/255 gr bullets. There is not a lot of difference between any of them over the screens, and virtually none on target.

My M625 has tight .452 ish chamber throats. You need to check yours. If they are .454 or greater, your accuracy will not be good with .452 lead bullets. Jacketed will shoot fine.

M625-9 Mountain Gun 4" Barrel

255 LSWC (.452") 8.0 grs Unique thrown, lot 6/21/1993Starline cases, WLP primers
25-Mar-07 T = 80 °F accurate
Ave Vel = 800
Std Dev = 30
ES 99.02
High 847.2
Low 748.1
Number Shots 11


250 LRN (.452") 8.0 grs Unique lot 6/21/1993 thrown, R-P cases, WLP primers
25-Mar 07 T = 80°F accurate
Ave Vel = 814
Std Dev = 24
ES 72.81
High 847
Low 774.2
Number Shots 11


250 LRN (.454") 8.5 grs Unique thrown lot 5471, 4/3/06, R-P cases, WLP primers

25-Mar-07 T = 80 °F accurate
Ave Vel = 891
Std Dev = 17
ES 61.31
High 921.1
Low 859.8
Number Shots 27

255 LSWC (.452") 8.0 grs Unique lot 6/21/1993 mixed cases WLP (nickel)

23-Sep-07 T = 82 °F

Ave Vel = 802.5
Std Dev = 31.03
ES = 123.5
High = 867.2
Low = 743.6
N = 12


Is that too much pressure for Italian metal?

As for Italian metal. I have a very early Rodeo with an Uberti frame. USFA told me it was 4135 steel. A fine firearms steel. I have read a metal analysis of modern Italian gun, and it looks like they know where to buy good steel and how to heat treat it. (Beretta was around 200 years before Winchester existed, and it looks like they might be around 200 years after the Winchester factory closed in New Haven)

However, I don't know what is used in blackpowder revolvers. One custom musket barrel maker, I found from him what he used for barrel steel. Looking up material data for the stuff, his barrel steel was weaker than sewer pipe. Still, it works great and he has many happy customers.

Really low, cheap grades of steel can be used for blackpowder guns. So I doubt your frame is 4140. Be nice to it. Be real nice.

[SASS#23149]

8 grains Unique is plenty of bang for he buck,imho
I always size new brass,years ago I started to load some w/out sizing it,the bulles practically fell into the case mouths.I"ve read that the Lee Loader just sizes the mouth of the case,so should not be hard to do,just time consuming.

[ArchAngelCD]

Is that too much pressure for Italian metal?
What's wrong with Italian metal??? :confused:

[sltm1]

I don't know, that's why I asked. Most c&b pistols usually come with instructions for pretty light loads of bp. Don't know if they're protecting the cylinder or the barrel?

[jfh]

"...Don't know if they're protecting the cylinder or the barrel?"

Neither. They are protecting their wallets from the liability lawyers.

Jim H.

[rcmodel]

8.5 Unique / 250 - 255 is a factory duplication load for the old Black powder load that gave the .45 Colt SAA it's reputation.
It will give between 850 to 975 FPS depending on the bullet design and barrel length.

9.0 grains might be a tad much for a conversion.

I'd say drop to 8.0 grains as has already been suggested.

BTW: Another thing I'd suggest you do is slug your barrel and measure it. Since your Rogers and Spencer started out life as a C&B revolver, there is no telling what the bore dia is.

rc

[sltm1]

Thanks guys, all I could find on the net was a load for a 230g bullet, 8g. The bbl on the R&S has been slugged (it had constrictions at the thread and opposite end). 8g for the R&S it is, maybe 8.5 for the rifle when I figger out which one I want. The answer about liability fits with todays legal BS.