[theheadhunter]

So I got this S&W .38 a little wile back and was wondering if anyone around here has seen anything like it.I dont know if its custom inlays and engravings or not. Its all flowers inlayed (what looks to be gold?) and leaves engraved, and pearl grips.

it reads on the gun 38 S&W special ctg.

Here are the pics of it they suck so bare with me. thanks
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa126/booboochatter/DSC00411.jpg
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa126/booboochatter/DSC00413.jpg
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa126/booboochatter/DSC00410.jpg
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa126/booboochatter/DSC00412.jpg

[Ron James]

38 S&W Special CTG ( cartridge ) is the caliber. What are the other markings and serial number.

[theheadhunter]

i know its a .38 special but thats all thats on it other than the serial number. but i dont know if i should post that.

[Oro]

It's a pre-war S&W 38-44 "Outdoorsman" model. These were made to fire high-pressure 38 Specials at high velocities. They were the fore-runner to the .357 magnum. That model is clearly the "outdoorsman" with the adjustable sights, and it appears to have a Call bead front sight. Very nice ste up.

If you can post a s/n or partial we can give a year it was made. The s/n will not be in the cylinder cut-out, but rather on the grip bottom, under the barrel, on the cylinder face, and under the ejector.

The gun also has a fairly rare and valuable S&W grip adapter on it. If the engraving is factory, that would add even more to the value. It would be worth writing the S&W historian Roy Jinks to get a letter on this ($50) which will tell if it was engraved when it left the factory and how it was configured, and when and where it shipped.

[lawandorder]

Headhunter congrats on a beautiful revolver. If you will post images on the Smith & Wesson foum you wil get lots of info, prob. even the name of the engraver. Good Luck!

[SaxonPig]

Oro nailed it. It would be about a $2,500-$3,000 gun if it weren't for the engraving. If it was done bt a known engraver it doubles the value. If done by a jeweler in a pawn shop then it halves the value. Need GOOD quality photos.

[BCRider]

Why would it be less valuable if some no body did the work? From what I can see in the blurry pictures the artwork is nicely done and balanced on the gun's surfaces. If the workmanship is up to snuff it should be worth $X regardless of who did the work. And if not then it's sad that folks value name recognition over quality of work.

[JImbothefiveth]

Just leave out the last 2 or 3 digits of the serial number

[Oro]

Why would it be less valuable if some no body did the work?

Because the gun is now substantially altered from original condition. A collector will judge an antique on it's relative condition to the originally produced item. Think of it this way - what's worth more, a 1) Model A Ford in original, like new condition, or 2) a Model A Ford someone in fantastic, like new condition, but that someone has installed an armchair in and a moonshine still in the back? Both are periodic correct, but one's a museum piece and the other is just not quite right.

In this case, it may be just as nice a gun, but it's not as "collectible" and won't fetch as high a price. SaxonPig didn't say it was a junk gun because of that, just that it does affect value on the open market. It could be factory engraving and it could be quite a valuable gun - it would take some substantially better photos, and more of them than shown, to figure that out, and also a factory letter. I would strongly encourage getting one on this gun - it's the type of gun that deserves a letter, not the random Military & Police or pedestrian Model 19.

The fact the gun has a Call bead front sight and also the factory grip adapters suggests someone put some thought into special ordering and the engraving might be factory, too.

[BCRider]

OK, I'll grant you that unless it came from the factory engraved like that then the risk of devalueing it would be there depending on what the value of the unaltered gun is.

However that would imply that any engraving on a rare gun by anyone other than as issued from the factory would devalue the gun. No?

Sorry if I seem thick on this but I'm not really up on what makes one gun rare and another chopped liver. I can see where some special low production factory engraved commemorative edition would be increased by the engraving but if ANYONE does such work other than the factory then any collector value would plummet and the final value would be dependent on the quality of the after sale engraving, yes?

[Trebor]

I can see where some special low production factory engraved commemorative edition would be increased by the engraving but if ANYONE does such work other than the factory then any collector value would plummet and the final value would be dependent on the quality of the after sale engraving, yes

Collector's want the gun to be as original as possible. That is, as close to how it left the factory as possible.

Factory engraving adds value because it was done at the factory by the manufacturer. (If there was some case where the manufacturer subcontracted the engraving, it would still count as "factory" engraving for this purpose).

Any work, especially engraving, done after the gun left the factory generally lowers the value of the gun because it takes the gun away from it's factory original condition.

So, for engraving, if its not done by the factory, it will lower the value of the gun because it detracts from the original condition of the gun, even if the engraving was well done. (Poorly done engraving lowers it even more).

Now, like everything, I'm sure there is some exception to this, but that's the general rule.

[Oro]

However that would imply that any engraving on a rare gun by anyone other than as issued from the factory would devalue the gun. No?


Well, on a highly collectible gun, it will almost certainly lower it vs. that gun in factory condition - and a pre-war Outdoorsman w/a factory grip adapter in high condition definitely falls into that category.

Now, on a less collectible gun, sure, nice engraving can add value, you are correct.

[SaxonPig]

BCR- It's the vageries of the collector mindset. Modified guns go down in value unless the work was done by a select group of artisans. If you want to pay $4,000 for a $3,000 with a $1,000 engraving job done by a no-name engraver then go ahead. Nobody's stopping you. I'm just telling you that a serious collector would not. A serious collector wouldn't touch the gun at any price.

[theheadhunter]

when i get home im going to take some pictures of the gun with a good camera. and the s/n is on the bottom of the grip i will get that as well.

[theheadhunter]

posted it on S&W forum and people are going crazy over this gun i took new pics for them so i figured id put them on here as well and the serial number is 403XX ,and i took a pic of the grip adapter. any more input year maybe?

[earplug]

I don't care about who did the work or when it was done.
Years ago, I passed on a 44 spl triple lock that was engraved by a student of a English firm, the rose and scroll work did not match on each side.
It was a neat piece with ivory stocks and a fitted case. I wish I bought that gun and used it on special occasions.

[theheadhunter]

this one is beautiful

[XDShooter07]

How much did you purchase the gun for?

Looks like you may have gotten very lucky! Keep us posted when you find out the story behind the engravings.

[Oro]

403XX

1932. Gosh, that really is pretty. Very, very pretty! You are sending away for a letter, aren't you? You really should.

[theheadhunter]

yes i am. i have had a ton of offers on the S&W grip adapters on S&W forum, i will never sell them or the gun. and the gun was my fathers. he passed when i was three, s he may have known something it just never got told.

[Husker_Fan]

BCR,
Let me try it this way. There are three things that relate to the collectability of a gun, or most other collectibles. Actually, all three are part of the same question:

First, how close is it to original condition. Is it ANIB? Much wear at all hurts value with collectors

Is there a (verifiable) story behind the gun? This is really important if the gun is not in factory new condition. For example, a chopped "Fitz" special done by my cousin is not going to be valuable regardless of the quality of his work. If, the work was done by Fitz, then that is another story. Similarly with engraving done outside of the factory. If it is done by the famous Mr. E. N. Graver, who is world renown for his work, it will increase the collectible value. But, if done by the guy down the street who no one has heard of, not so much.

Lastly is scarcity. I would guess a 29-1 in any condition will be worth more than a 29-6. In reality, the first two factors are part of the scarcity question. As more time goes by, more of the guns will lose their NIB condition. They will wear, be modified, or the box and papers will be lost. As to who did the modifying, famous smiths and engravers can only do so many jobs in their lifetimes.

I just all comes down to scarcity. That's defined by the type of gun, it's condition, and who did any after factory work.

It's not really my thing, I like shooters, but I can really appreciate a rare piece.

[theheadhunter]

my father passed away in the early 90's amd he bought this gun after vietnam, mom said he did not have the engraving done, but she said dad never thought it was factory.

[Husker_Fan]

That is very cool. I may have guns worth more money than the two ithaca shotguns in my safe, and I don't shoot them well at all, but they are the most valuable to me. One was my dad's and the other was my maternal grandfather's.

They might sell for a song at auction, but I wouldn't part with them.