[azwildcataf]

I'm looking into buying an H&K USC and I am trying to gather some information from everyone else's knowledge and experience. Please tell me what you think of the rifle, your experience firing it and whatnot, and whether you would recommend purchasing it. And if you know of anyone selling, or are selling one yourself, please refer them to me or contact me.

Thanks,
Kyle

[Kharn]

My cousin's got one in .45acp. VERY nice gun, a little big for me (I'm 5'8" with semi-short arms), but bearable. Its very well made in my opinion and shot like a dream. Too bad it only has 10 round mags and that stupid thumbhole stock.

Kharn

[azwildcataf]

All the USC's are in .45acp aren't they. I was on the HK website and I only saw them in .45acp It's the SL8-1 that you can get in differnt calibers right?

[Kharn]

I know they make the UMP in 9mm and .40 as well as .45, and I thought I'd heard something about a .40 USC, but wasnt sure if it ever got released or not.

Kharn

[j.wise]

The USC is .45ACP and the SL8-1 is in .223 WIN.

I have a SL8-1, but never shot the USC. Reliability, durability, accuracy aren't issues. The only issue is whether or not you can live with 10 round mags (or spend a lot more on a conversion to grease gun mags) and whether or not the rifle is worth the money, to you.

[Tamara]

I think the stock was designed to hurt you if you attempted to get anything like a cheekweld on it. :uhoh:

(I also think the asking price for a 10-shot, plastic, blowback pistol caliber carbine is a little crazy, but that's just me...)

[98G]

The bulk and weight of a full sized rifle, the power of a 1911, and only 10 rounds capacity........

Personally, I'd prefer something with the power of a fullsized rifle, and the bulk and weight of a 1911......

Failing that(since it doesn't exist), If I'm going to carry something riflesized, it's going to be rifle-powered as well....with decent capacity..

98G

[gun-fucious]

i have picked them up on occasion
but the low cap magazine is an issue

there are adaptors that replace the mag well for one that fits a grease gun mag

but that only adds to the expense

the beretta cx4 storm is looking pretty nice to me

especially if it orbits the 600 dollar price point:

JX49210 Beretta CX4 STORM(92)9MM SA CARB Allocated contact retailer $597.95 *
JX49610 Beretta CX4 STORM(96)40SW SA CARB Allocated contact retailer $597.95 *
JX48010 Beretta CX4 STORM(8000)9MM SA CARB Allocated contact retailer $597.95 *
JX48410 Beretta CX4 STORM8040)40SW SA CARB Allocated contact retailer $597.95 *
JX48510 Beretta CX4 STORM8045)45AP SA CARB Allocated contact retailer $597.95 *

[azwildcataf]

This CX4 has caught my eye. Do you think this would be the same problem that was mentioned above? The power of the 1911 in the bulk of a full sized rifle? Or is this gun just a nice full sized rifle with good power?

[98G]

All of your pistol caliber carbines suffer from this malady. Subguns too, but at least OAL is mitigated for them being able to use a shorter barrel.

I get the impression you may be new to the world of rifles...If so, I can make recommendations for a good first serious rifle..One with excellent sights, top notch ergonomics, a realistic range out to 500 yards, and very low recoil....With substantially more energy than any pistol caliber carbine....

Pistol caliber carbines are a specialty gun, that fill a small niche. They are a fun toy, but I have a hard time thinking of them as being optimal for anything.....Usually they are a PC version of somebody's subgun(as in the case of the 9mmAR, the UZI, Thompson, and the USC)....and too much is lost in the transition...

98G

[gun-fucious]

well its still shooting a pistol round so its not really
an 3000 FPS screamer for sub MOA at 100 yards

plenty of fun for hunting beer cans at 40 yards though
its pretty compact but i have yet to handle it and try the ergos

if barretta markets the caliber changes as an upgrade
then it becomes even more interesting

http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~jhipwell/storm.htm

[98G]

Here's a brief comparison for you:

Bushmaster Carbine ................ USC

Caliber 5.56X45 .......... .45
Muzzle velocity 3100 FPS ......... 1000fps
Muzzle Energy 1200ish .......... 450ish
Recoil Almost none .......... Not bad
Realistic Range 500 Meters .......... 150 Meters
Accuracy 1.25 - 1.5 MOA ..... 3-5 MOA
Capacity 30 rounds .......... 10 rounds
Weight About the same
Length About the Same
Cost $650-$700 .......... $900 or more
Sights Excellent .......... not great


Further, the 5.56X45 will penetrate body armor whereas the .45 or any other pistol caliber will not. However, the pistol caliber poses more of a risk of overpenetration in home defense usage, compared to TAP rounds or similar out of a 5.56....

The AR is not the end all and be all of rifles, but it makes for a very good choice as a first serious rifle. The sights are excellent, the ergonomics are excellent, and it is very fun to shoot. I have taught many people to shoot on the AR platform, and use it for this purpose as preference.

I say all of this and I am an H&K fan....

98G

[iamkris]

<thought better of what I said...Art's grandma and all that>

[azwildcataf]

Well, you were wrong in assuming I'm new to the rifle world. I have a lot of experience with some bolt action rifles. I've had a Remington 591 .22LR since I was 5, and I've been shooting my roommates AR-15 and Remington 700 for the last 2 years. I am new to the world of carbines though. What I am really interested in getting is an H&K MP5, but since I'm not 21 yet I can't get a Class III and on top of that I don't have a few grand to fork up for the MP5 once I can get the Class III. So the closest I can get is with a gun like the USC or some other carbine. Obviously the purpose of a submachine gun is not shooting at a range of 500 m+, and the mag issue is annoying but something that can be dealt with. I am just looking for opinions on the USC and some other carbines, what people like or dislike about polymer framed weapons, and any other opinions in the area of a submachine gun type rifle. Thanks.

[98G]

In that case, I might offer up the SP89 as a decent choice....Not the $7k of the MP5, but pretty short and handy....and for a nominal fee and a lot of headache you can add a vertical foregrip and perhaps the PDW stock which really does add a lot to the weapon...Total cost around $3500....

oops...it's a pistol and you're not 21.....

Hmmm.....keep in mind a preban UZI can be had for about the same $$ as the USC and has the advantage of magazine capacity and folding stock...And can be changed to SBR configuration in a couple of years, for a $200 fee and a lot of headache....

98G

[Dionysusigma]

Why not get a semi Thompson M1? 30rd mags, classy design, and still in .45ACP... :)

[natedog]

I'm with 98G on this one. A Thompson Carbine weighs as much as an FN FAL and is about as long as one too, but in .45 ACP :rolleyes: . These pistol-carbines will be a lot better once the AWB sunsets, when you can have a folding stock and SBR it. Myself, once I'm out of Cali, I'm going to get an AR-15 with a (SBR and collapsable stock) 9mm and regular .223 upper. This is because most indoor ranges don't allow full rifle calibers. Plus, 9mm is cheap, fun practice. Then you can actually get a length advantage, without loosing velocity.

[azwildcataf]

Well thanks for all your help guys. You've brought a lot of guns to my attention so I've got some food for thought now. And I might end up just waiting 6 months so I can get a class III or a pistol or something like that. Again thanks for all the help and I'm sure I'll be posting again whenever I have another question.

[natedog]

Just a little insight on Class III's, the cheapest I've seen an MP-5 recently is about $10,000...Also, if this is going to be one of your first guns, ammo is about $5 per 50, which is pretty cheap when shooting a semi-auto. Not so with the MP-5...you could rip through all of that in about 3 seconds. Plus, mags are about $40 a pop....

[azwildcataf]

Well MP5 is just an option with a class III. Hell, the license is expensive as it is. That's why I'd like one of the little carbines like the USC, something that looks and feels like a submachine gun but cheaper, even if it does only have a 10 round mag.

[Tamara]

Well MP5 is just an option with a class III. Hell, the license is expensive as it is.

A "class III license" or "SOT" is something you need if you wish to do business in NFA firearms.

An "NFA firearm" or "title II firearm" requires no license to own, merely that a $200 tax stamp be purchased whenever the weapon is transferred.

[azwildcataf]

So I can legally own a weapon like an MP5 or an Uzi without having to get a special license, I just have to add $200 to my purchase price? What about shooting it? There's no special license for that? I thought you had to take classes and get a license to be able to own and operate a title II weapon.

[gun-fucious]

the title II item will be a short barreled semi auto

heres some no licence options:
http://www.ohiorapidfire.com/hk.htm
http://www.top-notchparts.com/usc.htm
http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/firearms-reveiw.html
http://www.hkweaponsystems.com/clones/clone.html
http://www.featherusa.com/

[98G]

*So I can legally own a weapon like an MP5 or an Uzi without having to get a special license, I just have to add $200 to my purchase price? What about shooting it? There's no special license for that? I thought you had to take classes and get a license to be able to own and operate a title II weapon.*

Short Barrelled Rifles, Short Barreled Shotguns, Silencers, and Machineguns transfer to individuals on a Form 4. To get a Form 4 approved, you have to have head of local LE sign off on it, provide fingerprints, a picture, and pay a onetime $200 fee. You will also wait a while for approval. Only after approval is received may you take posession of the item...That's all there is to private ownership of so called "Class Three" items....

98G

[98G]

Also, let me add another thought to muddy the waters a bit further.....You can get a quality .45 caliber full automatic subgun for less than $2k. The Ingram Model 10, made by Military Armament Corp in Powder Springs Ga...commonly refered to as a "MAC 10".

They are indecently fun. Concrete blocks at 25 meters or SCUBA tanks at 50 meters. Cyclic rate just short of 1200rpm. A variety of sound suppressors available for them. A smaller package than an MP5(even the K model). Not as refined as an MP5, but very reliable and durable. Not to be confused with later copies - the Powder Springs version is the one to have.

98G

[Molly]

It's in perfect shape, and it's been updated at the factory to the strong cocking handle. I have the booklet and HK tool, 2 factory mags, etc. I also have about 1000 rounds of brand new S&B .45 FMJ 230 Gr that I want to sell with it. I would like around $1000 for it all, and I have pictures too. It's only had about 100 rounds through it. It looks like brand new, not a single mark anywhere on it.

It is so nice. This guns fit-and-finish is first rate. Every piece fits together so nicely, no rippled plactic like many other polyguns, metal is machined wonderfully. It makes my Bushmaster look like scrap metal, and the BM is known as one of the best quality Ars around. It shoots very well, and has low recoil, though more than you may expect. I would say it has less than my Bushmaster AK Shorty. It's very accurate though I only shot it at fifty yards, and the build quality is excellent. I have known some other people who have put 10K rounds through USCs with zero failures of any Kind whatsoever. And it is fun ripping off rounds really fast at the range, and putting them all into a big hole made of a bunch of smaller big holes. And I don't know why people complain about the thumbhole stock -- just because it's there due to Bill Clinton? I mean, go to a rimfire forum and everyone there is spending all their money on thumbhole stocks. The stock works fine; when cheek is welded down and you are flogging the trigger, you can't tell whether it has a thumbhole or vacuum cleaner handle it. It rocks.

As for the Beretta Storm, yes it is attractive, and I bought and paid for one at the SHOT show (still waiting for delivery of course). I paid $495 for the 92-mag version, and the price has already gone up a lot. And, don't be suprised if the street price turns out to be much higher than $600 still. I was told by the Beretta sales rep that they may trickle in for a while; and of course short supply = big markup.

I'll check this thread and if you reply that you are interested, we'll chat offline.

Thanks!

http://home.comcast.net/~hmeyne/Guns/UscBarrel2.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~hmeyne/Guns/UscSide3.jpg

[azwildcataf]

Hey Molly, I'm definitely interested, but it might not be for a little while cause I'm a poor college student who's saving up for this over the next month or so, that's why I posted the thread so I'd have time to get people's idea why I saved a little extra up.