Uberti Cattleman 357 Question on ammo


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Team Roper
April 19, 2009, 09:55 PM
Finally broke down and order a Cattleman EL Patron in 357, have always loved the look and feel of these from Uberti. I order the 357 due to reload supply issues at present time and I have several other's of same caliber and have plenty of ammo. I got to thinking if this cattleman would handle the normal off the shelf ammo { NOT +P } So I ask the dealer, OH YA he said it so quick it made me question his knowledge, so as not to be rude I thought I better do some research from people who know the ins and outs of these cowboy guns, and thats you fine folks.

will the gun hold up under these stock ammo pressures, or is it cowboy loads only. You know wear and tear is a concern but safety is foremost concern. guess I could do some loads for it, IF I COULD FIND SOME PRIMERS!!!

Cheers:)

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BCRider
April 19, 2009, 10:27 PM
We talkin' shootin' .38Spl or factory .357Mag?

.38Spl IS cowboy loads, no?

I'll be looking forward to your review on the Cattleman. I'm looking at getting into CAS and since I already shoot and love to bits a couple of S&W DA's I want to stick to .38/.357 for the SA guns just to keep things simple ammo wise. And for some reason I tend to like the Ubertis better than the Rugers. Plus up here they are cheaper.

TheVirginian
April 19, 2009, 11:24 PM
I'd typically run .38 through it also. The paper target won't know the difference.
-Bill

Team Roper
April 19, 2009, 11:54 PM
Thanks for the Replies
I was referring to the Factory/ off the shelf 357mags. I read somewhere shooting the 357,45lc,& 44-40 A BUNCH thru these reproduction guns would take a heavy toll on them. i.e. cylinder walls being thinner than say Ruger, Springs etc. Maybe it was a Ruger salesman that wrote it. Me I did not like the Ruger SA as much as the Uberti.

I have a bunch of 38's as well and yes I will use them for plinking targets as I would with my GP100.
But do you not find the 38's more to clean up, or have you found a brand or powder that cleans up easier.

I will post my opinion of the EL Patron, my Trigger finger is twitching
Cheers

TheVirginian
April 20, 2009, 12:11 AM
I'd just stick to .38 for plinking. It isn't so much about durability as just practicality. It's way cheaper at most places and more common also.

If you are going to hunt or use the gun as a source of protection from boar, wolf, bear in the woods, then the .357 it is. I shot my .44-40 this afternoon and the ammo didn't say "cowboy load" on the box but I think that's about all that you can get in .44-40 and .45LC these days. I don't mean wax bullets, just a lower pressure cartridge. The .357 is a very high pressure cartridge and so it will definitely be harder on the gun than .38 spl. It's not that the gun isn't built well enough to handle it. It has to be in order to rate it for that caliber. It's just that it'll wear the gun out in a fewer number of rounds. That should number in the thousands though.

The way that I'd look at it is like this; basically, if you can afford to run through boxes of .357 you can afford to replace the gun after 5000-6000 rounds. If you want it to last 10000 rounds, then .38 should produce less stress.
-Bill

BCRider
April 20, 2009, 12:38 AM
Once you get to reloading again if the powder pile in the cylinder bothers you then load .357 cases with .38Spl loads. Presto! No powder rings.

I don't know about your rules for cowboy action shooting events but up here the orgainizers specificallly prohibit magnum rounds.

I'd also think that you'll want to shave your sights to work with the round you'll be shooting most. Likely that'll be .38Spl and just live with the occasional magnum rounds hitting low.

Beagle-zebub
April 20, 2009, 12:50 AM
Would mid-range .357 loads really wear out a SAA that fast?

average_shooter
April 20, 2009, 01:00 AM
My understanding about the Uberti Cattleman is this; the .357 Mag version is built to the same specs as the .45 Colt version (meaning same size barrel and cylinder) but the cylinder and barrel are simply only bored out to chamber .357. So the chamber walls and barrel are pretty thick for the cartridge.

I've been reading a bit about SAA's lately too and as far as I can tell the biggest concerns about something wearing out on the Cattlemans are the springs.

Bottom line, if the firearm couldn't handle the cartridge then it wouldn't be stamped on the side of the barrel.

On a side note, the Uberti Stallion is a scaled-down (I think 3/4 size frame) SAA copy chambered in .38 Special or .22 Long Rifle. In those you will only be able to chamber .38's.

Virginian
April 20, 2009, 06:48 AM
To answer the original question, any standard off the shelf .357 Magnum cartridge is not going to hurt that revolver. It is made to run those pressures, and there are no +P .357 Magnum loads.
I know the Cimarron versions have eliminated all the leaf springs but two, and if you get Wolff springs with the wire trigger/bolt spring you have then eliminated everything but the main spring. I like the Ubertis, and find them to be good reliable shooters. I have shot plenty of 357 editions, but moved on to 44 Special Cimarrons and 44 Magnum Vaqueros.

Team Roper
April 20, 2009, 10:01 AM
Thanks Everyone
I knew I had come to the right place
Not being a Cowboy Action Shooter, Just an old Cowboy who loves to team rope these days. I love the Old style Cowboy guns. I doubt I will ever run enough ammo thru it to wear it out, maybe who knows I love to shoot as well. This is not a carry gun for me I have others for that.
But I wanted to throw out the question to the group and you all filled in the blanks for me.
I will post my opinion of the EL Patron for all who are interested.
God Bless you and yours & Happy Shooting

Team Roper
April 20, 2009, 10:07 AM
Thanks Everyone
I knew I had come to the right place
Not being a Cowboy Action Shooter, Just an old Cowboy who loves to team rope these days. I love the Old style Cowboy guns. I doubt I will ever run enough ammo thru it to wear it out, maybe who knows I love to shoot as well. This is not a carry gun for me I have others for that.
But I wanted to throw out the question to the group and you all filled in the blanks for me.
I will post my opinion of the EL Patron for all who are interested.
God Bless you and yours & Happy Shooting

TheVirginian
April 20, 2009, 02:13 PM
You're not going to wear out or break the barrel or cylinder. It's the cylinder pin and frame that will get worn. these get hammered pretty good with high pressure rounds. The springs are maintenance items anyway, so that's not the issue with heavy rounds. Even the Colts need to have springs replaced occasionally. Still, the gun should be heavy enough to survive thousands of rounds of normal .357 loads.
-Bill

EnsignJimmy
April 20, 2009, 09:34 PM
You're not going to wear out or break the barrel or cylinder. It's the cylinder pin and frame that will get worn. these get hammered pretty good with high pressure rounds.Apparently, much of that cylinder pin and frame wear comes from the fact that the cylinder pin can rotate freely. This can be fixed by ordering a Belt Mountain, or similar pin notched on one side only, of the correct diameter.

Team Roper
April 20, 2009, 09:43 PM
This can be fixed by ordering a Belt Mountain, or similar pin notched on one side only, of the correct diameter.

Elaborate Please

TheVirginian
April 20, 2009, 10:18 PM
That's a pretty nifty idea to keep the cylinder pin in place if you have trouble with it falling out. I have not experienced that but I can see where it might occur with a worn "black powder frame" pin retaining screw. The screw might eat a ring into the pin itself eventually and so allow it to not be tightened properly or walk out.

I fail to see how a similar pin design would reduce shock of the pin and frame itself as it relates to the capture by the cylinder bushing. The cylinder in any six gun is going to produce some pretty hard shock waves against the frame and the pin that supports the cylinder as the exploding rounds cause recoil. This pressure can distort the frame and pin. It is going to happen on a microscopic level, like thousandths of an inch, and only for a split second before they return to their shape. Over many cycles from rounds of a very high pressure cartridge twisting these parts, they can wear and fall out of tolerence. The heavier the frame and cylinder capture mechanism (or the lower the pressure cartridge fired), the less this occurs and so the longer the gun will retain its specs.

Unfortunately, as cool as an 1873 revolver is, it is a very simple machine and an antique design, which was not intended for use with magnum loads. A mfr can make a gun in this style safe for the loads but it can't use the same old design, piece for piece and inch for inch and expect it to hold up. The frames top strap on an 1873 is very thin compared to a Ruger Blackhawk. The action is different as well. I suppose about all that one could do if they wanted to keep a gun 100% to old Colt spec would be to build the frame and pin from a very hard alloy or stainless, etc to prevent them from wearing under those loads. Since they couldn't change the size of the parts, they could only change the materials.

It's not a joy killer for me though. It just means that I'd shoot traditional rounds from a traditional design.
-Bill

Team Roper
April 23, 2009, 09:54 PM
It just means that I'd shoot traditional rounds from a traditional design.

I assume you are referring to cowboy Loads or are you referring to 45lc. 44-40

w_houle
April 23, 2009, 10:12 PM
I almost bought the .357 but I went with the .45 instead. I figured that I could fir .45 Schofield through it and my Pietta. The only thing I don't like is that .45 is very expensive here!

Team Roper
April 24, 2009, 10:30 PM
Ok here my opinion of the Uberti El Patron
I took it down and cleaned it well both getting familar with it and cleaning any factory lube from the barrel etc, maybe not needed but it helped getting my brain around it some.
I shot 50 rounds of 38 sp 125 rn and about 25 rounds of 357 148 gr fmj thru the 1873 and my Ruger GP100.

After getting use to the action and feel of the 1873 I think this is a very fine revlover. The action is very smooth with just enough trigger action to suite me well. Had to get used to the SA, The hammer has to be fully cocked, had a couple of misfires due to not being used to the action, but it was me not the gun. It handled the 38's very well, felt great as far as recoil and keeping the gun in the palm of the hand as to be on target for the next discharge. May try some cowboy load 357's.

The 357's were fine as well, but seem to be a bit much for my taste, blow by for sure and required more concentration on keeping the gun ready for the next round. Of course I expected more kick and barrel lift with the 357 and the gun handled it well but for me and my needs I will shoot more 38's thru it than 357. 357's better in the GP100 just not as fun.

Very happy with the gun and very glad i bought it. It takes a very close second to my colt 1911 as a fun gun to shoot. It just feels good, love the action, very accurate, great metal and workmanship. Click the picture, looks like the Ruger needs some fine tuning Huh !
Cheers

TheVirginian
April 24, 2009, 11:54 PM
I'd swear that you labeled that target backwards. I mean, you did shoot 6 rounds through the Ruger DA and 5 rounds through the 1873 SA... right? That's good shooting either way.

When you asked about if I meant "cowboy loads" or standard .45LC or 44-40 loads, I meant standard for the era of the gun or standard available factory loads today. In either case, it's about the same and is roughly a cowboy load or a slightly hot cowboy load. I'd not look for anything marketed as being a hot load and I wouldn't reload anything too hot either. It just wouldn't be doing a "fun gun" any favors. Most folks wouldn't use an old style cowboy gun for SD although I'd venture to say that at very close range, as would be a SD situation, it'd still be plenty effective with the lighter loads.
-Bill

TheVirginian
April 25, 2009, 12:23 AM
Oh, I just put a set of ivory grips on my Peacekeeper today:

http://www.uptownaudio.com/images/SAA_ivory.jpg

I bought them from a nice lady at Buffalo Brothers Cowboy Store. I think they look pretty sharp, breaking up the monochrome black grip/frame that it had stock.
-Bill

Team Roper
April 25, 2009, 10:09 AM
Nope 6 thru the 1873 and 5 thru the GP100, as listed on the paper. Standing Hand held not from bench. Wife was throwing out a 4" round candle, I though this is going to be a good target, so I sat it on the target post and the gp just skimmed it knocking it off, so that was the 6th shot for the gp. I did load 6 in the 1873 for target shooting but well aware of the load 5 with hammer on empty chamber issue.
Later when shooting some 357's thru the 1873 I shot that candle, must of been dead center cause it busted it into many small pieces, that was fun.

I love those grips, Colt ? since you could change them or Uberti which I don't think can be changed.

TheVirginian
April 25, 2009, 11:31 AM
I don't load but 5 into my "spur hammer" revolver as that hammer mounted firing pin is pretty menacing. If I fire a gun with a transfer bar, then OK. Even with great care, you have to lower that hammer directly on top of that last rounds primer if you have a traditional six gun. That's not worth the saved couple of seconds to get another round off IMO.

Thanks, the gun is my AWA Peacekeeper. I also have a Colt Cowboy and I actually fitted the grips to both guns. I like the Colt stock grips a bit better than the stock AWA and I shoot the AWA, so that's why it's on there. I expect that you can change the Uberti as easily. It isn't a drop-in thing though. I ordered Colt SAA grips and they always come slightly oversized and then you have to trim them down and drill a bit to fit them to a specific gun.
-Bill

Team Roper
April 25, 2009, 11:20 PM
Thanks Have a great weekend

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