[Futo Inu]

At the range Sunday. Quite a few people there. At some point, someone calls for cold range. Needs to set targets. No problem; it's been awhile. I set some targets; am done in approx. 45 seconds. Wait for a host of other people to return, tapping feet (can't touch anything - all you can do is wait). A few minutes later, everyone is done, except for a brand new arrival group. I hear someone say "Go ahead, set your targets". OK, no problem. They go down, then come back within 3-4 more minutes. Alright, time to go to work. But wait....Seems that a trio consisting of an elderly couple, and another elderly gentlemen now want to set targets, even though they were there the whole time. :rolleyes: The two men of the trio are wearing blaze orange camo hats, so I suspect they are some of those folks coming in for that once-a-year, sighting-in-for-deer-season range session (as non-paying guests, of course), but who knows for sure....

So off they go downrange. Little bitty tiny great-grandpa steps (no offense to the great-grandpas here). But really, they shoulda had some all-terrain personal movers - it'd-a been faster. So surely they're just going to 50 yards. After all, I doubt they'd have good enough eyesight to take a shot a deer further than that. They reach 50 yards....Are they gonna stop? Hmmmmm..... Nope. Seems they're going on past. Off they go to 100 yards. You get the picture. Are they gonna stop there? Nope. Keep on going to 150. Surely they're gonna stop at 150, and not go all they way to 200. Yes, they stop! So they just have to set their targets and make the excruciatingly slow trip back, then I can resume, right? NO! They commence to DRAGGING the target stand from 150 BACK TO 100 yards. Doh!! You can imagine how long it takes for 3 people who can barely walk (bless their little pointed heads) to drag a large target stand 50 yards. Then they set the targets - not speed demons at that task either; then begin the expedition home to the firing line. This all takes a good 15-20 minutes of our time. Quite a few people besides me are also pacing. It was such a comedy of unbelievables that I was actually laughing at loud and called my friend on the cellphone to pass the time and pass on the story. I love our elderly neighbors and gun ownwers, but SHEESH! Anyone else have a new story?

[Chuck Dye]

And all the able bodied stood, watched, and tapped their feet.

[dustind]

I would have ran out there and offered assistance.

[Futo Inu]

"And all the able bodied stood, watched, and tapped their feet."

Yep. I sure don't want to injure their dignity. Otherwise, I might have offered to help. You REALLY and truly would have gone to the far end of the range, followed them out there, and offered to help them WALK, possibly offending them quite a lot? Hmmm, not me. Plus, they WERE making headway; just very slowly. I doubt helping would have made things any faster. It's kinda comical, and I understand that our elderly citizens need some patience, but surely they could have started their trek almost 10 minutes before when everyone else started downrange. Remember, they held things up an ADDITIONAL 15-20 minutes over and above the 10 minutes that everyone else took, which was in turn about 9 minutes and 15 seconds longer than I took (granted; I only needed new targets at 25 yards at that time). Plus I was urked by the thought they they're probably non-paying guests, and I had very little range time to accomplish all that I had on my list to do. But this may be unfair; they may have been members. Prolly should have title this "Range Frustrations" instead of Range Doofuses, but waiting til everyone else is done before you start down, KNOWING how slow you are, has to constitute a doofus, albeit that they came by honestly, given their age. In any event, it's mostly funny, but a little bit frustrating too, since I didn't finish all that I had gone there to do. I guar-on-damn-tee you when *I* am a snail-paced geezer with old-timer's, the LAST thing on earth I'll forget is how insanely frustrated I was all my life by other incredibly slow, inconsiderate people of all ages, but especially the elderly, whether driving or any other time, and I guarantee I'll respect younger people's time until the day that I die. There is nothing on earth I hate more than a time-stealer. After all, I'll be retired, and have time on my hands to kill at that point, unlike the working generation. This subject does touch on the non-gun-related subject of how incredibly inconsiderate and idiotic drivers of ALL ages are where I live, and generally go under the speed limit in the slow lane, and how people of all ages waste everyone else's time in non-driving situations, but's that a subject for another forum and another time.

[Mikul]

This reminds me of the guy who sets up his target, sits down and shoots oh about 5 shots of .223. He calls the range cold so that he can go see his shots. Walks down, comes back, fires 5 more rounds, calls the range cold, etc. Nope, he hasn't got a spotting scope, or binoculars, or the brains to use a white target so he MIGHT be able to see the hits.

I didn't have a scope either, but seeing .44 caliber holes at 25 yards isn't much of a challenge.

Seeing a pattern forming here, when he asked to call it cold again (for the third time in 10 minutes) I said, "OK, just let me finish up what I've got here." Which was about 100 rounds. :evil:

[WhoKnowsWho]

When I first went to the rifle range, I could have easily been like the guy Mikul was talking about. I brought binoculars, but they were not strong enough to see the 5.56 holes, and they were not hitting the small Shoot-N-C I had pasted up at 100 yards. So I waited... no rush, and I knew someone else would want to call a cold range, no problem.

Now I got a spotting scope... someone needs to create a target that self heals in 10 minutes... hmm...

[MJRW]

Well, you could have seen what I saw once. Guy stopping his friend from shooting so he can grab the binoculars to check the target they were shooting at with a scoped AR.

Target was 15 feet away.

[Sean Smith]

Saw a guy shoot off sandbags with a Beretta .25 to hit a target wayyyyy out at... 7 yards. And be horribly inaccurate. And tell his poor wife in proud tones how, "That's how you do it, toots."

:rolleyes:

[Carlos Cabeza]

Maybe you should ease up on the older farts Funo Ito, Up until his untimely death in '95, there was nothing my grandfather liked to do more was punch paper. He mightof been a bit slow but he deserved the respect one would normally give a WWII grunt.

[RustyHammer]

... Good thing it wasn't a 600 yard range!

[semf]

was actually laughing at loud and called my friend on the cellphone to pass the time and Nope nothing there that would injure their dignity

So off they go downrange. Little bitty tiny great-grandpa steps You can imagine how long it takes for 3 people who can barely walk (bless their little pointed heads) to when *I* am a snail-paced geezer with old-timer's, the LAST thing on earth I'll forget is Why do I get the feeling that you were not really worried about their dignity.

With any luck you will be in that position some day. And his great grandson will not be around to remember how well you protected that man's dignity.

[mec]

Local solution is to stay away from the range from october 10- the first week of deer season. The once-a-year shooters are all over the range at that time. They have to bring out all their friends to sight in the deer rifles and then come back after opening day to try to figure out why they missed the deer.

[Futo Inu]

semf, you comments are way off the mark, and you obviously didn't read my second post completely, especially this part:

"I guar-on-damn-tee you when *I* am a snail-paced geezer with old-timer's, the LAST thing on earth I'll forget is how insanely frustrated I was all my life by other incredibly slow, inconsiderate people of all ages, but especially the elderly, whether driving or any other time, and I guarantee I'll respect younger people's time until the day that I die. [because] There is nothing on earth I hate more than a time-stealer. After all, I'll be retired, and have time on my hands to kill at that point, unlike the working generation."

Even though you quoted part of it, you obviously don't understand what I'm saying, or just stopped reading it at some point.

What part don't you get? I WILL be considerate at that age, whether during driving, making the decision to drive or not, or any other situation. I wouldn't want any more or less from his offspring then I gave - other than maybe a deserved reminder of how I should be more considerate! The golden rule was being practiced by me, but not by them. Had I not practiced the golden rule, I'd have yelled "Get the lead out, geezers!" I guess you think age exempts you from the golden rule. And I'm sure your friends and family appreciate your high and mighty preachiness. :rolleyes:

Inconsiderate is inconsiderate, regardless of age. I will be dead in the ground before I am ever that inconsiderate. I was concerned about their dignity (but only to the extent it factored into whether or not I might help them, that much is true), but the funny part was NOT their infirmity - it was just how many things happened in a row that kept taking longer and longer, when I kept thinking the delay would soon be over - funny in a cute way, not funny like ha ha old man, you're slow. See? Anyway, I didn't explain it very well, I guess, but to be sure, I am not picking on their slowness in and of itself, just their inconsiderate nature of waiting until 2 complete waves of people had gone down and back before they even begin their (incredibly slow) trek down themselves.

[DougCxx]

Well you could do without rifle ranges, as I do--because there are no general-public rifle ranges I know of at all in the entire St Louis area. There are private clubs that meet at a certian time each week, but you need to be a member and my current employment doesn't permit much in the way of regular evening events, and even those places are quite a drive to get to (30-45 minutes away).
:/
So I have indoor pistol ranges....
The range I go to uses overhead cable caddies with PVC pipe "T"-target hangers on them that hang on a hook on the cable caddy. They used to have solid copper hangers brazed on, but switched to the plastic pipe because (the range guy told me when I asked) it is cheaper and easier to fix. The first time I saw the plastic hangers, I wondered how often people hit the hangers--because I remembered the copper ones looking all dinged up, but never noticed how often it happened. ....I soon found that if you stay for an hour whenever it's busy, someone in one ot the eight lanes will shoot their target hanger into pieces. Usually with a medium-to-large target on it, usually with the target set less than twenty feet away, and often while doing rapid fire (-otherwise known as "emptying the full magazine"). :rolleyes:
~

[Geezer]

Futo Inu, I am sorry to be the one to tell you this, but if you survive your encounters with the enemy (check Pogo's description of same) and reach a ripe old age, you are not too likely to remember recent events, and especially not your frustrations and pains.

What you think about are the girls you didn't "kiss", the deer you didn't miss, and wondering, of all the folks you ran with and all the folks you ran against, why are you the one who survived?

Incidentally, check with some other older folks, but apparently it is impossible for a human being to accurately imagine being older. All of it will come as a big shock to you.

And, your experience could have been worse. You might have been behind me going down a narrow flight of stairs. If that ever happens, be sure to bring along something to read.

BTW, whenever I run into a WWII vet, I forget about what I am doing and ask if i can shake their hand and tell them thank you.

God bless and y'all be careful out there.:cool:

[semf]

Inconsiderate is inconsiderate, regardless of age.yeah that was pretty much my point

Even though you quoted part of it, you obviously don't understand what I'm saying, or just stopped reading it at some point. I thought I did but where I come from we call it back pedaling.

If you have seen many of my posts you would gather that discrimination and intoleration are 2 of my pet peeves whether it be racial/ethnic, geographical, gender, appearence or age related. I make exceptions for self inflicted stupidity I've never understood why Americans villify our aged for committing the unforgiveable sin of living.

[Detritus]

Local solution is to stay away from the range from october 10- the first week of deer season. The once-a-year shooters are all over the range at that time. They have to bring out all their friends to sight in the deer rifles and then come back after opening day to try to figure out why they missed the deer.

i wish that was completely true of teh range I am a member of right now.... let teh once or twice a year folks dictate how the range is used, the 4-6 weeks either side of opening day or just leave em be...

BUT NOOOO!!! they want everything from Oct. 1st to Dec. 31st! thus killing ALL rifle competition for the three best months of the year to BE on the range (cool enough to shoot but not cold).

personally i think there should be a "this is for sighting in" area that they can go to that won't interfere with the rifle matches when or if they decide that they "can't be bothered to read the newsletter to see when the matches are" :cuss:

well at least it's not one fo the public acess "for profit" places closer and/or in houston now THOSE are a nightmare. :what: :scrutiny:

[uglymofo]

Damn.... some folks are just as thick-headed as the geezers the Big Dog described.

Take it from me, Futo, you lose. Ain't no way you're gonna change opinions by posting, nor would your objections illuminate the geezers to the plight of the masses they insist on inflicting their selfishness upon. You hit it on the head, and could have left it alone with:

...but waiting til everyone else is done before you start down, KNOWING how slow you are, has to constitute a doofus...

It does mean that they're a "doofus". Folks like that don't give a damn about anyone else; they're the "excuse me but I'm in a hurry" assbites that never think of anything else but how the world affects them.

This ain't got anythin' to do with "respecting" WWII vets, nor anyone else old enough to be a WWII vet. What's so goddamn special about WWII vets?? What happened to them from Korea, 'Nam, Gitmo, the Berlin Wall, and Iraq I & II?? The decision to join in the fight of WWII was probably the easiest and clearest to make, of all the problems this country's faced since WWI.

Futo Inu's topic isn't about respecting nor his elders nor insulting them. It's about ANYONE who hasn't got the ingrained courtesy to put others' well-being and comfort before their own. Just because they're 'way old and have less time or are more frail doesn't mean they can imposition everyone a else who's younger.

[Atticus]

"It's about ANYONE who hasn't got the ingrained courtesy to put others' well-being and comfort before their own."

That might better descibe whoever was shooting next to the oldsters.
Upon seeing their difficulties and lack of speed, I would have offered to run their targets down for them. I doubt that would have hurt their dignity.
And seeing that they moved so slow when walking down range would tell most folks that they were probably equally as slow gathering the targets, etc, to take them down (explaining why they started later than everyone else).

I agree that WWII vets don't deserve any more respect than any other. That's about all I agree with though. If there had been a sixty year old Nam vet there, he would have probably run the targets down for them.

[C.R.Sam]

Courtesy Applicable here and at the range.
Let us keep the personal jabs out of this.

Sam

[HankL]

Futo, Do you own that range? If so kick their butts off! If not, call a Down Range and help them haul some targets to undetermined ranges from 400 to 1200 meters. I'm not using a walker yet but if I had one I would consider ways of using it as a tool.
Public or private the range should have guidelines about down range times.
We all get in too big of a hurry because time is short. Time is less short if you spend some of it getting to know the old farts that waded through that swamp you are fixin to step into.:D
Edited to say: I stand on firm ground Sam, Moderate away my friend.

[jrhead75]

Yep...inconsiderate people really torque my jaw, regardless of age. But...seems like it would be easier on everybody if somebody more sprightly would step up and help move the process along. Everyone seems to assume that any assitance is an insult...not so...Don't make me break out my "Marine color guard" story here! :D

[Quintin Likely]

A few weekends ago, some friends from work and I decide to consume mass quanitities of ammo in the pursuit of a little stress relief. So we loaded up and headed out to Tuskeegee National Park, where there's a little approx. 100 yard range with a few benches and a big berm to catch stuff flying downrange.

We put on quite a display of force; something along the lines of 16-18 firearms amongst the three of us :D Anywho, we show up and decide to wait on the far right bench. We brought a lot of different semi autos with us and didn't want to pelt bystanders and fellow shooters with hot brass. Eventually, we got our bench, got to talking with some of the other folks there. There's no official range officer in this place, every now and then a park ranger might show up. We called the line clear to pick/set up some new targets, when a couple of fellas showed up with a few big bore hand cannons and a painfully loud muzzlebraked rifle, what caliber it was, I'm not sure. They walk down and set their targets up, we come back up and call the line hot. About 30 minutes later or so, the guys with the big guns on the far left called the line clear to set up some new targets. We stepped back from the line and chatted a bit with a couple of the other folks there.

Perhaps this was foolish of us, but none of us are wearing our ears at the moment; after all, the line *is* clear, right? Well, wasn't but a few seconds later when a pair of deafening blasts come from the "gentlemen" on the far left, one with the aforementioned braked rifle and the other with a big ol' scoped revolver. All of us, about 6 or so total, glare in their direction, and naturally they act as if they did no harm :mad: Okay, we think, no biggie...

...until they did it again...and again...and again...no word or anything from them, hot or clear. Eventually, all of us stood back from the line and waited on the two to finish up before we resumed.

After this incident, I think I've convinced my friends to get memberships at the 500 yard range on Ft. Benning I shoot at, one with real range officers and rules.

Rude people suck.

[semf]

Futo Inu's topic isn't about respecting nor his elders nor insulting them. No, but his post was

Just because they're 'way old and have less time or are more frail doesn't mean they can imposition everyone a else who's younger I hope you remember that in 50 years or so

I agree that WWII vets don't deserve any more respect than any other. That's about all I agree with though. If there had been a sixty year old Nam vet there, he would have probably run the targets down for them. I'm a 41 year old peace time vet, and I would have


The most important thing my doddering old Grandfather taught me was that it is the duty of the strong to protect the weak. I try to apply that principle in all things I do large or small.

[swingset]

Fotu, I agree with you. 100%

My grandfather was a WWII vet, and didn't get around too good, but I would bet my life's wages if he was at a range he would NOT wait to get downrange on a cold line. He'd have either got it in gear, or let the next session go hot without him. Or, he'd have had me or a younger person do it for him. Guaranteed. He was like that.

It's about manners, not age. I've met courteous older folks, and selfish dolts who have probably been that way for far too long.

And, for those of you who are on your high horse saying you'd have offered to help, let's see you try that a few times at a range on older men with all their pride intact. I've offered many times to help the elderly and handicapped. Know what happens 90% of the time? You get a stern "I'm fine", "I can manage" or "I don't need any help". Then, you feel like a dick because you've offended them. I'm learning that the people who want help usually ask for it, and those that don't do so for a reason.

My .02. Flame away.

[rayra]

Huck Phinn beat me to it, Futo Inu - you healthy types sat and bitched - should have helped yourselves and ran out to help. Maybe even practiced some Fireman's Carry too.

[powderific]

It seems to me that the part the Futo was most annoyed with was that the gentle men waited until AFTER everyone else had already done what they needed to do downrange. He stated that they had been there since the beggining. I fail to see how their old age makes this permissable. My guess is that he wouldn't have had a second thought about it if they had gone down right off. The fact that they waited to go down until after everyone else was finished was not a function of their old age, it was discourtesy on their part. The fact that futo told a story about it does not mean that he is disrespectful to them.

Edit-

Also, I think that letting them do the job on their own was better than running out there and doing it for them. Like futo said, they were making slow progress, but they were still doing fine.

[semf]

As stated in an earlier post it was not the topic, but the snail paced pointy headed, old-timers afflicted, itty-bitty granpa step taking geezer remarks that set the tone for the topic that I for one found unnecessarily offensive.

[Atticus]

Well... I guess the moral of the story is: You can offer assistance, or say something to them to effect change ...or you get what you get.
I tend to be in the I'll offer help group - if that fails, then I join the - "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" group. Old fartitis striking me early I guess.

[Molly]

**Edited to remove the three stories I told about seeing stupid and dangerous behavior at the range this recently.**

Some people commented that by my not proactively offering advice to these strangers, that I am in fact stupid too. Well, if you knew me personally for even a few minutes, the last thing you would ever be able to call me is stupid. It's just that after many years of completed education, authoring mass-published books, owning companies, and working with all sorts of humans in all sorts of capacities, I have come to the conclusion that it's not my place to advise other adults on common sense matters -- especially strangers in a public place who are obviously confident that they know exactly what they are doing. Further belying that I may not be the stupid one here, I have never left the range with my hand needing stitches, nor have I ever had another person request that I remove a muzzle from their face while fondling my guns.

[rayra]

powderific, saw your edit, don't care how well they are doing - Delay Of Game.

And the real fault lay with the RangeMaster who allowed two batches of late-comers to delay everyone else - Let those who are Late, Wait.

[Sean Smith]

Watching people being dangerously stupid and not saying anything makes you an accomplice in stupidity.

[RTFM]

Futo Inu from what I gather, by not trying to assist them, you think your range time is more important then theirs?
So instead of helping, you wait and berate them here instead.
LAME.
Futo Inu.
"And all the able bodied stood, watched, and tapped their feet."

Yep. I sure don't want to injure their dignity. Otherwise, I might have offered to help. You REALLY and truly would have gone to the far end of the range, followed them out there, and offered to help them WALK, possibly offending them quite a lot? Hmmm, not me.

To answer your question, would I have really helped. YES without a doubt.

And when I returned to the firing line I would have ragged on every-single-one-of-you-lazy-*****'s who you admit were"...able bodied (and) stood, watched, and tapped their feet."
Shame on you!
And now you want to come and cry on my sholder about them waisting your precious time. Step off.
Who died and left you king of the range?

The way I see it.
Your non-action then, and your complaining now make what you did Range Doofus, Part 47


RustyHammer. Too bad you didn't have a couple fire crackers to "pop off" ... and then yell'd "INCOMING" !!! They'd have moved then!
That's just a asinine comment. Not even funny with the smiley faces added.
Chances are good that at one time in their lives THEY DID receive INCOMING which was meant to kill them.
Instead of suggesting he throwing firecrackers at them like a dolt, you should be thanking them for our freedom and throw them a salute.
Think next time.

RTFM

[DamnedDirtyApe]

I live in the country, in the middle of noplace, many miles from any major metropolis.

I shoot in a clean, classy range - also in the middle of nowhere - that costs $10.00 a year for membership.

90 percent of the time I'm there, I have the entire range to myself. When there's someone else there, we are polite, considerate and helpful, and never a threat or a burden, even if we are a little slow from time to time.

Some of you urban dwellers sound like you're well on your way to strangling and eating each other.

[Art Eatman]

As a Certified Old Fart of going on 70, I still hold more doors for others than folks hold for me. But, if somebody shows a bit of courtesy to my years, who am I to complain?

The real issue, seems to me, is the sitting around and not deciding to get a target in place until after other folks are ready to go back to shooting. That's inconsiderate, as had been said.

But if I'm inconsiderate of others, I really doubt they're gonna call me a nice old guy. I might not like somebody laughing at my slowness or whatever, but I'd be the one who brought it on myself. Old age does not excuse stupid behavior--mine or anybody else's.

Reverse it: I'm having to wait on some college kids who are causing the holdup. I'm gonna be grumping about a bunch of slick-eared, wet behind the ears dumbutted infants who oughta go home and get their diapers changed.

Or worse. :D

Art

[uglymofo]

Thank you, Art.

Damn few of the 'enlightened thinkers' out there seem to grasp the concept.

At least they're omnipotent enough to claim that they can anticipate and distinguish someone who's been mentally asleep for 10 minutes will be also physically slow, and therefore, they should insist on giving aid before this doofus'es really prove themselves at the 50 yard line. And they can judge from age who's served, too. I wish they lived next door. I need a psychic mentor. It's good we have so many bright readers here circulating among the general population.:rolleyes:

[Rebel Gunman HK]

Thats why I dont go to the range. Too many dumb people. I just drive away from the people, way out into the desert. Set up my own range and HAVE TO AVOID SHOOTING THE STINKIN OFF ROADERS!!! JEEZ! How do they always find me????? :confused:

[powderific]

rayra-

Agreed on that point.

[Carlos Cabeza]

I guess patience ISN'T a virtue. I get as frustrated as the next guy when it comes to poor time management due to an older member of our society, but as a younger more agile person, we should give a bit of respect to the people who contributed to society in their time of agility. Slow down a bit and talk to an old guy, you'll be surprised what you can learn and the real depth of some of the stories you'll hear. As ol' papa Cabeza used to say, "When I was your age....................." :D

[DorGunR]

Wow......seems we got some really sensitive people here.:rolleyes:

[Carlos Cabeza]

Believe me, when I needed a leg up I stepped on my share of heads........

[justashooter]

i think that soem of the most arrogant people i have ever met have been older men who haven't dealt well with their failing strength. some of the finest, wisest, most humble people i've ever met are men who have played better the same cards.

hopefully, i will age as well.

[uglymofo]

Justashooter,

Don't worry about it. With that attitude, I'm sure you will.

[Futo Inu]

Wow, I really opened up a can of worms, even though I meant this to be a story-tellin thread - but that's ok.

I'll just say that those who are claiming they would have helped, may be telling the truth. BUT, they would have taken a WRONG action, IMO, because that can REALLY REALLY damage elderly people's dignity! It depends on their frame of mind, but since I don't know how they view themselves, and their frame of mind, I'm sure as hell not going to take a chance on injuring their dignity, since I *do* in fact have an extremely large measure of compassion. Sure, my grandmother was the type that would have relished some help in that situation, but my grandfather, for example, and I believe most men, view(ed) themselves as quite capable, or want to view themselves as such, regardless of their actual capabilities, and as we all know, dignity can be of the few things valuable you have left at such an advanced age. So, am I compassionate? Yes. Did I have the decision of helping or not helping on the forefront of my mind? No. But if I had, I certainly would have come to the conclusion that there's no way in hell I'm gonna piss off these folks and harm their dignity like that. Do I think it's a good idea for ANYONE to help in that exact situation? Men, no. Ladies, maybe. Was I making fun of thier infirmity. No - sorry it came across like that - like I said, it was a "cute funny", and frustrating at the same time. Will *I* be more respectful of other people's time when I'm at that age? You bet your last nickel I will. Are people here being too sensitive - maybe; maybe not - I personally think so, but then again perhaps my chosen descriptive words were in fact a little insensitive to the older generation - I'm sorry for that. But some of yous guys call yourselves geezers and old farts, so why can't I use those terms? Maybe you should join the PC crowd who thinks it's ok for blacks to call themselves the N word, but no one else - same idea. I use geezers and such as endearing terms - in fact, I've said that I myself am an OFIT (old fart in training). So it ain't derogatory - sheesh - everyone's gone PC on me. The general gist of my post holds true - As I said, inconsiderate is inconsiderate regardless of age. Unless you have advanced Alzheimer's or similar, in which case you wouldn't be at the range to begin with. In any event, the discussion has some value.

[DorGunR]

Carlos Cabeza
My post was not directed at you.........I was just making a general observation.
FWIW.......I think those older folks at the range were rude......thay had time to place their targets when everyone else did.......they waited until it was time for the range to go "Hot" again before calling for "Time" to set their targets.............RUDE! And for what it's worth again, I'm 71 YO.;)

[NIGHTWATCH]

I would have screamed OPEN FIRE! the moment they hit the 101 yard mark. :)


JUST KIDDING! :D

[Carlos Cabeza]

Thanks Gunner, I mistook your words as an implication of weakness on my post. I do know the arrogant old guy type but generally find that in my encounters with the older generation, the arrogance is not realized, but is perceived by some to be. I really miss my old Grandad. He taught me so many valuable principles and codes of moral and ethical conduct. I am sorry if some here do not view our geriatric members of society as assets, but I for one am thankful for the genuine efforts they have provided in the past, much of which seem to be lacking in todays younger generation of people.

[rayra]

"REALLY REALLY damage elderly people's dignity"
Horse????. If they've got more gray hair than I do, and they haven't yet developed a little calus on thier souls, it ISN'T my lookout. They should have been told to wait. They should have been assisted, and told the reason they were being assisted - for delaying everyone else.

"damage elderly people's dignity" - same kind of nonsense thinking that lets those dangerous elderly keep driving themselves.

[C.R.Sam]

Inconsiderate. Uninformed. Etc.

Found in all age groups.

I am in Art's age group and agree with his post.
I help where I can.
I accept help if needed.
I appreciate offers of help.

Now....there have been a few times where this thread has gotten pretty hostile.

Let us ALL show some consideration and be CIVIL to each other.

Or take it to email.

Sam

[spacemanspiff]

well i dont have stories of old fogies holding up range time, but i will say this much.....

those older shooters out there often have better advice to give a green wet-behind-the-ears youngin like myself, than a bakers dozen of 25 yr old ex-ranger-delta-force-down-on-their-luck-so-bad-they-are-regulated-to-being-rentacops-at the mall do.

one day i was at the range, as usual minding my own...this shooter to my left a couple lanes over were slightly bemused at the 3 shooters who kept calling a cold range every 20 rounds to inspect the target set out at 15 feet. took a closer look, and the three of them were marking off their shots. guess they didnt want to pony up the dollar for five targets so they could each take one home to admire.

the range i go to usually has a RO calling everything, and sometimes people will just be walking up to the line with their target stands and whatnot all ready to go when the RO calls the line hot. but if it was just us shooters regulating ourselves, its a given that we all would have waited for the fresh faces to get set up. we have more patience than the RO seems to have.

i went to the range saturday...watched as a group of four (3 guys, 1 girl) were shooting a blackhawk .44 that had a scope. they were having problems of some sort, i didnt bother to listen too closely, i was pre-occupied with my finest group ever that really isnt worth bragging about here, but anyways...i looked at these kids target after they left. at 15 feet, there wasnt a single shot inside the 7 ring.

[BluesBear]

spiff you should have been courteous and told them that electricians tape is much better than duct tape when attaching a scope to a revolver. :rolleyes:

I know, I know, it's that whole duct tape/electricians tape controversy all over again.

:neener:

[Geezer]

Clearly an argument in favor of universal military training. Vets know that 100 MPH tape is stronger than dirt!

God bless and y'all be careful out there.:cool:

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Buy your own land, about 200 acres should do, and set up your own range. No more waiting on, or dealing with, the old and infirm, the inconsiderate, or the jerks. Lost of land for sale in Utah.

[Atticus]

One thing I've noticed in threads about range rule offenders, is that it is generally assumed that the offender(s) knowingly committed the offense.
Don't assume that an older man, or woman, is experienced just because they are up in years.

Regardless of the age of these individuals- they may have never set foot on a formal range (or shot a gun for that matter). I started shooting when I was about 12 (1968), and first set foot on a formal rifle range about a year ago. No one greeted me and said this is what you do, and this is what you don't do. There was no list of rules or procedures (I can't hold my gun?...action open?). There was no glossary of terms provided (cold range? hot range?). Common sense should play a big part, but a lot of people don't have much, so that can't be relied on to prevent problems.

It is always easier to say nothing, and to bitch and moan, then it is to identify a problem and find a solution.

In this instance, the problem could have been easily solved if someone had politely pointed out to these gentlemen that they needed to set targets when everyone else did. Assistance could then be offered if required.

And I'm not bashing Fotu Inu- he wasn't the range master, nor was he shooting next to these guys. We all have an obligation to learn, and to teach, if we want to expand the pool of active shooters.

[Ivanimal]

I want to be old and slow one day. Too bad about the younguns and their time constraints. maybe I can learn them to slow down and have fun. Or at least think about it.:neener:

[semf]

Maybe you should join the PC crowd who thinks it's ok for blacks to call themselves the N word, but no one else - same idea. Not even close


We just have to agree to disagree on this one.

The whole dignity offending argument honestly sounds like a cop out because it never occurred to you to offer help. You were to busy worrying about your precious 9 minutes and 15 seconds.

After all did the Boy Scouts set out to offend the dignity of all those little old ladies crossing the streets of America

[Geezer]

According to best estimates, there were over 1,250,000 incidents of elder abuse last year.

I get the feeling a couple of y'all would like to see the advent of Soylent Green.

God bless and y'all be careful out there.:cool:

[wingman]

unlike the working generation

Which generation was/is the working generation.?:D

[wingman]

This ain't got anythin' to do with "respecting" WWII vets, nor anyone else old enough to be a WWII vet. What's so goddamn special about WWII vets??



Well,WWll vets were/are special, I grew up in the 40's working with vets
they were some of the most skilled/determined people I have ever met.
Sad to say I fear we will never see another group like this in our country,
and yes I respect all vets, I was in Vietnam, however the wwll vets will
always hold a special spot for me.

[Gmac]

Someone mentioned throwing firecrackers and yelling "incoming".This would probably get you shot and rightfully so.

[kernal_panic]

You guys should have seen the CF collection i dealt with last night. I get to the range with about an hour of daylight left. right after i get there and before i can setup my targets, 2 white trash POS show up. the one guy isn't even wearing shoes he's wearing flip flops. these 2 are shooting in black powder rifles. i watch as one of the rifles miss fires and then the guy begins to work on it. he points the muzzle in every direction but down range. I stare in disbelief. finally he has the gun pointed down range and is shooting. finally i have been there now 20 minutes and can start shooting. then some young guys with ar-15s show up, then another shoot once a year hick. finally it gets dark and i left. man where do these people come from?

[Art Eatman]

kernal, like any other group, shooters represent a cross-section of humanity. Problem is, some sections are crosser than others.

Cretins such as you saw are a large part of the reason some people believe that acquisition of any firearm should be preceded by proof of knowledge and competency...

Art

[Carlos Cabeza]

he points the muzzle in every direction but down range.

This is obvious, but may I ask how you came to the conclusion that these folks were "white trash POS's"....Perhaps they were wearing "wife beater" undershirts ? I also don't think flip flops are very good foot protection but unlike your Danner Ft. Lewis boot you could buy LOTS of ammo for what you saved. What's wrong with young guys and AR's ? As long as they don't endanger your life who cares. Where I shoot I never see anyone, I'm alone or with people I choose to shoot with.

[uglymofo]

Glad to meet you, kernal. I don't think anyone's ever seen me in shoes except the people I work with, and they'd better catch me QUICK after I get off the clock. Hell, there's folks that take pictures of my SHOES at weddings.

Identify yourself the next time we meet. I'm the one at the range, in slaps, looking for rattlesnakes as I go downrange.

[semf]

O. K. no old people no lower to lower middle income earners, no young people, no rich snobs, no yearlys, no range hogs, no blaze orange camo, no go to war camo, no one without the proper amount of teeth in the proper place, no "militia types, no preppy types.

Is there any other group that the Range Gods have deemed unworthy of range time.

I,m 41, not grossly overweight, usually wear shoes, most times put my teeth in before I go out. According to the newspaper I'm an average wage earner for my area, but I live in an apartment.

Who exactly do I petition for permission to worship at the Alter of Acrid Smoke.

[Molly]

This is not the best place for you to ostracize people for shooting AR-15s. All of us AR-15 owners are a huge part of the reason that you are free. But yes, pointing a muzzle all over the map is ludicrous, and I see it all of the time at the range.

[Moparmike]

I too wear sandals when I am not at work in weather that my toes dont get too cold in. They are the most gawd-durned comfortable sandals that I have ever worn too.

I havent been to a range yet, but I am thinking of wearing something that all those uppity types will be offended by.

How's this:
Athletic shorts, covered in puppy fur (Says I come from a loving home:D )
Fraternity T-Shirt, or uber-comfy ratty shirt for my days off.
Uber-comfy flip-flops of doom, complete with their holes in the bottom and no more pattern on bottom.
Uber-tactical Black Arkansas Razorback hat, worn foward or backward depending on what I am shooting.

Will that be offensive enough?:mad: :D

[bigjim]

One of the down sides to getting old or being handicapped is you can not do what others can do. Is this fair? No, but it is reality.

NOBODY that can not range walk or even do a little jog should even consider posting a target at a 200 yard line on a public range.

Rules for a happy life and a good range day overlap.

1. Bring your own equipment or stay home. No you can not use mine.

2. Bring your own translator or learn the lingo. Learn the words and the customs of your community. Its your job to fit in. Not our job to make you feel at home.

3. Standards will not be normed to suit your gender or age. Get use to it and learn to deal with YOUR problems or lack of ability regardless of the cause.

4. RANGE WALK. Never allow yourself to be last off the range twice in one day. If you can not reasonably do this BRING HELP WITH YOU.

5. Accept that as time passes and other bad things happen you may not be able to do every thing you once did.

[Ryder]

Funny thread!

Y'all wouldn't insult my dignity by helping... In fact I'll just sit right there at the bench and you can do ALL my target handling for me. That'd suit me just fine. Hhaha, but if you really want to make a friend for life pick up my brass :D

[Dollar Bill]

Prejudice comes in many forms as evidenced by this thread.

Sure makes me glad I don't live in the big city where I have to rely on formal firing ranges. Most of the time where I go to shoot I am the only one there so I do what I please yet it is funny that I still am conscious of where my muzzle is pointing at all times.

It is difficult for those under, say, age 45 to know what it is like to be old. I only hope all you young guys make it to old age sometime as only then will some of your impatience and intolerance disappear and you may even wish someone would offer to help you with simple tasks.

[Carlos Cabeza]

Happy to make your aquaintance Mr. Bill, maybe we can meet out on the prairie for some casual shootin'. I'll even pick up your brass. :)

[C.R.Sam]

To paraphrase Mr. Bill:
Gettin old is a blast.
Bein old sucks.

Sam

[Dollar Bill]

To paraphrase Mr. Bill:
Gettin old is a blast.
Bein old sucks.

Yep, someone understands!
;)

I don't really consider myself old yet at 53 but I have turned the corner and lets just say things aren't what they used to be.

[spacemanspiff]

so in 20 or 30 years, when this batch of fogey-haters has become ol fogeys themselves, will we be having a similar conversation with the next generation?

i can see it now......oleg and bettys kid will be on here posting a message that reads "You wouldnt believe the inconsiderate slimebag at the range today! ol coot was talking in the third person, saying 'bigjim doesnt care about other shooters! bigjim gonna do what he want!" he hobbled out with his walker to 500 yards! and we had to wait 30 minutes for him to make it back. then, and get this! he calls the range cold after ten minutes, in which time he fired his rifle 3 times. so we had to wait ANOTHER half hour just so this ol bag could shoot a clover leaf. i tell ya, it made me so spitting mad i could barely keep my shots in the 5 ring at ten yards!"
:rolleyes: :D :evil:

[MJRW]

bigjim,

I'm very happy I didn't meet you the first few times out, else I might not continue to go to ranges today. Fortunately the people I met were friendly and helpful for the most part. I guess I'll help people live an unhappy life by helping them out when they need something that I can let them use, explaining things they don't understand, respect my elders and what they've done for my generation by helping them as they need as I hope the next generation will do as I get older, and wait for people twice if necessary understanding that the range is just as much for them as it is for me. I am clearly a scourge to happy people everywhere.

Oh, and in case it was missed, someone may be happy living life like that, but they're still an @$$h*!&.

[Intune]

I usually help the infirm/challenged at every opportunity whether a supermarket parking lot, in a store, whatever. They have always been grateful, never offended. At a range, which to me is members of my shooting fraternity, I would help anyone who looked like they needed a hand. I have offered to help people loaded down with gun cases, bags, ammo etc many times to & from vehicles. If I were in some sort of hurry to shoot I would be right over to give someone a hand. Putting targets up with tape? "Wanna use my staple gun?" Maybe it's just me… I don't think so! Darn AR15 nasty, foul, Mattel shooters. Should be a rule against 'em. Now those wonderful AK shooters, cant say enough about those wonderful folks. ;)


Oops, edited (well not really, gonna leave it) the "cant" in the AK reference was NOT intentional! :cool:

[MJRW]

Just read Molly's post earlier in this thread.

Molly, I don't think I would call you stupid. But I know I wouldn't call you humble.:rolleyes:

[BluesBear]

Don't worry Molly, humble ain't all it's cracked up to be.
Humble is how you act when you've been nominated for an award. Confident is how you act in order to GET nominated.

I'd much rather have a confident person watching my back.

A confident woman doesn't intimidate me even if she does have an AR-15. ;)

But then I don't have a self esteem problem either. :rolleyes:

[swingset]

So I'm at the range today, and these f'n dikes show up, then whadya know some jews start tricklin in, then a bunch of spics and coloreds, and worse yet....

Just seein if anyone's paying attention anymore.

This thread bagan trivial, but has become absurd and sad.

[kernal_panic]

i'm not bashing the ar-15 guys although they needed to dump less money into their rifles and more money into ammo (bushmaster m4gery with a wilson combat brake, some goofy railed hand guard, ace boom toob stock, flip up rear sight) i was shooting beter groups with a $47 .22. The 2 danger hicks were most of my complaint.the rest was the other once a year shooter. the danger hicks, wearing their real tree camo hats, dirty wife beaters, numerous jail house quality tattoos, and flip flops (whats this guy who can barely keep his muzzle pointed down range going to do when a hot empty lands bettween his toes?) the other guy was an ???????. One of the ar-15 guys shooting was a black guy. the black guy was shooting a pistol, a ruger i think, and apprently his shooting stance sucked (i wasn't paying attention i was shooting groups with various 22 ammo and keeping an eye on the danger hicks) anyway the shoot once a year hick was trying to help the black guy when he jokingly said " I don't know how they shoot in the hood but that usually doesn't work too well" Jesus Christ what an ???????.

[cdbeaver]

I'm lucky, I guess. I'm 73 years old, don't have to go to a public shooting range because I have a farm that really works well for a private shooting area.

But I think courtesy is a mark of a gentleman, regardless of age. If I inconvenience any one because of my (growing) infirmities, I expect to be told about it so I can remedy the situation.

When I'm inconvenienced by what I perceive as some one's inconsideration, I tend to get grumpy, just like those of the younger generation. We all could use a dose of goodwill. And patience.

[C.R.Sam]

cdbeaver...
You could just as well have been speakin for me.:)

Sam

[kernal_panic]

oh and in regards to the old guy shooters. i think it would be very polite to ask "hey old timer i'm headed down there to put up new targets, want me to grab yours too while i'm down there and staple up new ones?"

[C.R.Sam]

That would get a grin and a "thankee" out of me.

Sam

[Sparker]

In my five and a half decades on this planet, I learned: Crippled up old folks are a real pain in the butt until the s**t hits the fan, then they seem to be the only ones with good answers about how to fix the mess we're in.

Surprisingly, a lot of them old farm raised grannies know more than us youngsters do about damn near everything. maybe that's why I hold the doors open for them.

[Ivanimal]

In the words of Richard Prior," You dont get old being a fool".

Lighten up, go over and help, listen when they speak, you may learn something.