Biggest autoloading cartridges?


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Col. Plink
April 22, 2009, 02:49 PM
Has anything even close to the 7.62x39mm even been used in autoloaders? It would seem an excellent candidate for a 'bear gun' or some kind of big game pistol. Anyone ever seen or heard of such a thing? [also posted on revolvers]

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WardenWolf
April 22, 2009, 02:53 PM
In an autoloader? Are you crazy? When you start getting that large, it's not really a pistol any longer. It's a stockless rifle. Pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles. They're two entirely different power classes. Rifles need heavy, overbuilt receivers and other components. You can call a stockless rifle a pistol, but that doesn't really make it one.

Col. Plink
April 22, 2009, 03:02 PM
Not crazy, just asking a question. Thank you.

CWL
April 22, 2009, 03:03 PM
7.62x39mm is pretty weak fired out of pistol length barrels. It isn't that great of a round even in rifles (assault rifles use less propellant because they are meant for short distances)

Why not look into a the .475 Wildey Magnum fired from the Automag or .50AE from a Desert Eagle?

FYI. People already hunt big game with pistols. They use pistols because of the skills needed to get close-enough for a single-shot kill -not so that they can spray an animal with bullets.

If you want big game defense in North America, carry a 12ga pump loaded with Brenneke slugs.

turkeythigh
April 22, 2009, 03:20 PM
keltec makes the plr-16 which is a pistol chambered in .223 and it can use AR mags, it is about 600 bucks. and bush master doers as well but they are more expensive.

rcmodel
April 22, 2009, 03:26 PM
excellent candidate for a 'bear gun' or some kind of big game pistol.Again, as in your 7.62x39 revolver thread, it would make a mediocre big / dangerous game round out of a handgun.

Relatively small caliber, & relatively marginal power.

Big-bore Magnum handguns are dangerous game guns, due to the heavy bullet, large hole, bone smashing power, and deep penetration to the boiler room.

The 7.62x39 would offer none of the above.

rc.

Thingster
April 22, 2009, 03:54 PM
I'm willing to bet the most powerful commercially available autoloader round would be for the .475 Wildey Magnum.

265 grains at 1872 fps for better than 2000 ft*lbs.

A 7.62x39 out of an AK or SKS is 123 at roughly 2400- it'd be a lot more anemic out of an 8" or so barrel.

rcmodel
April 22, 2009, 03:57 PM
Yep!
And it would still be a .30 cal, 123 grain bullet!

Energy isn't everything, or anything, when it comes to making big deep holes through things that bite.

rc

sherman123
April 22, 2009, 04:02 PM
I heard the .451 fahrenheit cartridge has "ak-47 power" out of a handgun:neener: I'm joking of course don't take that too seriosuly. I'd say .50 ae is as big as you're getting in a semi-auto handgun

GoodKat
April 22, 2009, 05:04 PM
Lol someone should make a pistol version of the .50 Beowulf AR.

Thingster
April 22, 2009, 05:07 PM
I know energy really isn't anything when it comes down to it, but for sake of argument you need something to compare to.

"biggest" would be the .50 AE, "most powerful" would be the .475 WM. Does one do something the other won't? Probably not, but you still need a datum.

Kind of Blued
April 23, 2009, 02:18 AM
For practical use, I think the .460 Rowland out of a 1911 is a great combo. You'll get 1000 ft. lbs. out of "normal-sized" handgun. A compensator and the semi-auto action would help a lot with recoil when compared to a revolver.

Any bigger or more powerful, and you're talking about abnormally large guns that weigh well over 40 ounces.

22LRFan
April 23, 2009, 02:37 AM
There is the "AK pistol." I found this picture from www.thompsonmachine.net/akpistol.htm.

kanook
April 23, 2009, 11:25 AM
If it's for hunting bear, I'm sticking with a revolver. If it's for protection from a bear, still a revolver. If you are going to pursue this with 7.62x39 being the best all around cart. I would suggest a bolt action rifle or single shot pistol and start reloading. It has potential but it's like jail, no matter how big and bad there is always bigger and badder

Bionicrooster
April 23, 2009, 11:33 AM
Again, as in your 7.62x39 revolver thread, it would make a mediocre big / dangerous game round out of a handgun.

Relatively small caliber, & relatively marginal power.

I would go a step further and say your a little off your rocker if you shoot any species of bear with a pistol fired 7.62x39. That rounds is only marginal fired out of a rifle for large game.

A 44 mag or better in a high quality revolver is more like it :-)

Col. Plink
April 23, 2009, 02:53 PM
Appreciate the logical responses; I have no desire to hunt bear with a single-shot pistol. I had heard of people carrying rifle-cartridge pistols for defense against big animals while fishing, etc.

I do not appreciate such things as CWL's assumptions and condescending attitude "People already hunt big game with pistols. They use pistols because of the skills needed to get close-enough for a single-shot kill -not so that they can spray an animal with bullets." I know people use pistols to hunt, hence my question about a particular cartridge. I have no idea where your notion of spraying animals with bullets (from a pistol yet!) comes from; probably the same place the rest of your off-the-wall impressions are invented.

Wouldn't it just be easier to avoid seemingly innane messages, CWL, and not respond? You know, "better to remain silent than spout off and make a tool of yourself"?

KBintheSLC
April 23, 2009, 04:09 PM
I wouldn't want a 7.62x39 pistol either... it is an anti-personnel round designed for a rifle-length barrel. It would make a lousy bear gun, especially in pistol form.
If you want a good woods defense gun, I would recommend a Glock 20 (or other hi-cap 10mm) for autos, or a revolver in .44 Mag or larger (454 Cas, 460 SW, 480 Rug, 500 SW, etc)

I had heard of people carrying rifle-cartridge pistols for defense against big animals while fishing, etc.

Honestly, you will be better off with a pistol-cartridge pistol, than a rifle-cartridge pistol. The pistol powders are contoured for shorter barrels. Rifle ammo needs over 10-12 inches to reach a minimal burn... preferably 16-20"

Max C.
April 24, 2009, 02:59 AM
I doubt the government would try to get a company to make something just so that they could make one type of round illegal. It's too much effort. They'd just legislate the whole class of AP ammo away.

lvcat2004
April 24, 2009, 03:28 AM
I just don't think that a very high-powered autoloader makes sense. My thought is that the purpose of having an autoloader is that you can shoot multiple shots, and reload with ease.

When it comes to very high-powered pistol rounds, there is rarely a need to shoot that many times, thus a revolver would make more sense, and would be better built handle a stout recoil from high-powered pistol rounds such as 454, 460, 480, 500 and the like.

If you were hunting a big game that can kill you and somehow have to empty all 6 shots in the cylinder, that would be a bad day....

Agree with everyone above about 7.62x39 or 223 not being a great big game hunting pistol. There are 7.62x39 "pistols" or "stockless rifles", but I'm not very clear about its niche, as I'm not sure about the use of 50AE Desert Eagle either.

Silverado6x6
April 24, 2009, 09:15 AM
Technically its not an autoloading pistol but cartridge wise I think its the most powerful. The .50BMG pistol.

http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/photos/weapons_fireams/thunder50diagonalace.jpg

http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/photos/weapons_fireams/50bmgtripleactionhold.jpg

Quiet
April 24, 2009, 09:07 PM
Lol someone should make a pistol version of the .50 Beowulf AR.

AR pistols in .50Beowulf have been out for awhile.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/picture-7-12-tm.jpg

.45Guy
April 25, 2009, 09:31 AM
Didn't the government talk some company into making a 7.62 X 39 pistol so they could outlaw any armour piercing rounds in that caliber?
Olympic arms.

harmon rabb
April 25, 2009, 10:03 AM
are you the guy who bought an AK and is now obsessed with 7.62x39? it's not that great of a round.

if you want bear defense out of a handgun, get a .500 s&w and be done with it. 7.62x39 is a rifle round.

Gunfighter123
April 25, 2009, 12:20 PM
I wouldn't want a 7.62x39 pistol either... it is an anti-personnel round designed for a rifle-length barrel. It would make a lousy bear gun, especially in pistol form.


I don't fully agree with that --- a AK type "pistol" with a 20 or 30 rd. mag has a few things going for it IMHO ---- with MilSurp ammo , you are going to get penetration and with the AK , near 100% reliabilty.

The downside is with the AK handgun , it is really NOT a one handed sidearm.

This is a Draco , made in Romania and not a "parts gun" --- selling now for between $600/$700 and ALOT OF FUN to shoot.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Jailbird123/DSC01725.jpg

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