Halp! need help on how to properly select a good used 870, especially wingmaster

[AcceptableUserName]

obviously i should luike the action...but what should i look for otherwise besides barrel pitting? can someone put up an internal diagram maybe? what should i look for bolt/extractorwise?

[Lee Lapin]

Best bet is to find someone who knows the design well and get help from them shopping for one.

Maybe if someone could tell where you were in the wide wonderful US of A (HINT!), they might volunteer to help by PM or something.

lpl
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Lee Lapin
Moderator

Join Date: 03-26-04
Location: NC
Posts: 6,898

[Lee Lapin]

Now then, with a bit more time at hand... I'm bound to miss something, hope others will weigh in.

FIRST of all, make doubly sure the gun is clear (empty) in both chamber and magazine when you first lay hands on it. Always be conscious of the muzzle, even though you just stuck a finger in both the chamber and the magazine and visually inspected both as well. Have the 870 field stripping and reassembly process down pat. If it takes finding a friend who already has an 870, any 870, and getting hands-on lessons, do it. If you already have an 870 to practice on, so much the better. The owners manual has directions, and it's available on the Remington web site. But there is no substitute for hands-on practice. You have to be good at it. No, you need to be great at it.

You need to know what is where on the gun, what everything looks like when it's in proper working order, what looks out of place if something is wrong. This takes time to learn, which is why I suggested getting some help as the first step.

Second, learn to disregard external appearance on 870s, especially LE trade-ins. A used 870 can be the most forlorn looking thing in the world outside, and still have two lifetimes or more worth of use left inside. Beauty really is only skin deep with used 870s, though external abuse and neglect CAN be signs of internal abuse and neglect as well. New exterior finishes can fix a lot of appearance problems, and often enough an 870 that looks ratty on the outside will have a 'steal me' price tag attached- and be absolutely sound and solid mechanically. Learn to keep a straight face when you find one of these... and see if you can get the price knocked down a little lower 8^).

Third, run the bolt slowly. Feel for grinding or dragging outside the spot where the bolt slide contacts the hammer- that's always going to drag some. With the forearm both forward and back, check the magazine tube along as much of its length as you can see for uneven wear, dents, bends or other damage. The magazine tube is pretty much the only real vulnerable point in the 870's design- everything else that might break or wear is manageable without massive outside assistance, but replacing a damaged magazine tube is a factory level repair. Inspect the action bars on both sides for uneven wear or damage. Look at the notches in the action bars that actuate the shell latches, inspect them for excessive wear. If you know what a 'healthy' 870 action feels like, you'll be better able to recognize a sick one. Learn not to mistake accumulated grime, dried oil, etc. for mchanical problems when you 'feel' an 870 action.

Fourth, carry at least three DUMMY shells when you go shopping. You can buy "Action Proving Dummies" from Brownells, or if you have a friend who reloads, you can ask them to make you up some dummy loads. Mark them clearly as dummies, leave out the primer completely, do load them with an ounce or so of shot for weight but use no powder, substitute a short piece of wooden dowel of the appropriate size for the powder charge and wad too, to give the dummy some 'body' inside the hull. Hot glue the crimp so it stays closed. Dummy shells will let you test the functioning of the action- to see if the magazine, action bars, shell latches, lifter, bolt, extractor and ejector are all working in sych. NEVER use live ammo for action proving. ALWAYS ask for permission before you test the action with dummy loads, and show the seller your dummies before you start. Always be aware of the muzzle, never eject shells briskly but catch them with your hand as they come out of the ejection port.

Fifth, if you have a good working relationship with the seller, ask if you can field strip the gun, or if he or one of the employees will do it for you. Sometimes the answer will be no. Live with that. Ask about return or repair policies in case problems are found later. Gun shows might be more of a problem, because sellers are more likely to be strangers to you, actions may be zip tied closed and you may have less latitude in your inspection. Live with that and take the difficulties of returns and repairs in those circumstances into account as well. Carry a couple of plain wooden or plastic golf tees in your pocket to use to push out the trigger plate pins, in case you do need to field strip an 870. Remember, on American made guns, things go out from left to right, and go in from right to left.

Remove the magazine cap first. In case there is no magazine spring detent in place, be sure to restrain the cap as you remove it. Launching a magazine cap across the neighborhood gun store makes you look foolish and might cause damage or even injury as well. Crack open the action halfway, remove the barrel and inspect the bore and chamber for damage or rust. Look around the mouth of the chamber for dings or scratches. Examine the chamber, forcing cone, bore and choke. If the barrel has choke tubes, see if the tube will turn under a proper amount of pressure- carrying a proper choke tube tool along helps with this.

I like to remove the forearm assembly/slide/bolt with the trigger plate still in place in the receiver, since the trigger plate helps support the shell latches. Though the shell latches are supposedly staked inside their recesses inside the receiver, sometimes they get loose and come out. It's embarrasing to drop parts... . With the forearm removed you can get a good look at the full length of the outside of the magazine tube. It's a good time to pull the magazine spring detent (carefully!) and check out the condition of the inside of the magazine tube, the magazine spring and follower as well. Once a quick inspection is done, I'd reassemble those components immediately.

Then look at the bolt/slide. Inspect the extractor for breakage, chipping or undue wear. Feel that the plunger and spring are free to move a little- but don't over do it or you'll be looking for parts. Keep a thumb tightly over the base of the extractor to make sure it stays in place and pull gently with the index finger to check for function. It doesn't move far, it doesn't need to. Check the length of the firing pin and look for obvious problems. Remember that the 870 has an inertial firing pin, it's supposed to be shorter than the bolt body overall. Then reinstall the bolt/slide/forearm assembly.

The trigger plate comes out next. The main thing to look for inside an 870 is evidence of kitchen table gun butchery. There are parts in the 870 trigger plate assembly that are staked in place and not intended to be removed save for replacement. 870s seldom break parts, and inexpert repairs or reassembly will be evident. There's no need for detail stripping an 870, and evidence that has been done by someone who didn't know what they were doing will be obvious. IMHO that makes the gun a pass, unless you have a spare trigger plate assembly on hand to drop in and are willing to take the risk there hasn't been other abuse as well.

You may want to do this level of inspection at home and not in front of the seller- in fact it may not be possible to do it in front of the seller. But there should be clear understanding before hand of what happens if there are problems with the gun that are not immediately obvious from a 'surface' inspecton.

I always encourage students of any subject to do their homework. Serious students always do...

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=523234&t=11082005

http://www.americangunsmith.com/view.php?id=42

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=946&title=SERVICE%20KIT%20FOR%20REMINGTON%20870,%201100%20&%2011-87

hth,

lpl

[AcceptableUserName]

Thanks for the awesome input. 10/10 as always. Gonna be just a little bit of a learning curve I guess. I can do a basic fieldstrip all day long on a Mossberg, which I'm converting from (no knock on Mossberg, I'm still ridiculously fond of them...I just have a sdoft spot for the history of the 870 and the smoothness of the Wingmaster) from what I understand, the remington's probably a tiny bit easier once I get the minor details and nuances down pat. Having a tough time tracking a Police model in the configuration I want here in Utah, so I'm planning to pick up a Wingmaster, giving it the TLC it deserves and adding an 18-18.5" on it and a Choate 7 shot. Hopefully keeping the furniture and blued finish stock. wish me luck!

[jlv08]

It's a fair bet that the older 870 shotguns are going to be a better choice than what Remington is manufacturing today. I don't mean to cast a bad shadow on Remington arms but as of late... Oh well.

I bought one a while back for 175 dollars and it looked to be in brand new condition. I checked the serial no. and found that it was an early fiftie's shotgun!!

I had a friend make an offer I could not refuse and now he has it in his possesion. The gun was just to nice for me to bugger up and belonged in a collection.:)

I have had several older Remington 870's and a particular one that I had and I let get away from me was the one that inspired me to build my Augie Daugie mechanical boot /butt kicking device that I use on occassion to remind me of how dumb I was to let that particular gun get away.:(

I would not think that there would be any thing so wrong with an older 870 that a simple fix would not take care of as they are K.I.S.S. simple and reliable as gravity.:D

[AcceptableUserName]

50s wingmasters are often the holy grail of pumps, in my opinion. They're not as rare or as "fine" as otheres but they just won't die. and nothing can really touch them.

[Virginian]

I like the chrome lifter, pre-1976 guns myself. I wasn't too keen on the early stocks style wise.
The easiest route, in my opinion, is to go to GunsAmerica or GunBroker, and find someone with a 100% or close satisfaction rating (many of them are dealers and they have stores), find a gun rated 95% or better, look at it closely, think of any questions you have, and either call them or email them, and then if it looks good, buy it.
You can drive the wheels off your vehicle and not see 1/10 the guns you can see there.