Remington 870, Help!

[atrain08]

Well I finally bought my first shotgun today and I'm having a couple issues with it. It is a Remington 870 express magnum with 28" barrel. First off the shells will not always come out of the tube, all of which are 2 and 3/4" shells. Federal shells will not come out of the tube at all, and the second issue is that it will only hold two shells? Don't these things hold at least three shells? Is there a plug or something inside the tube that I need to remove? I bought it at a pawnshop so I don't know the history of the gun but the bore is in very good shape, and it doesn't look to me as if its been fired much at all. The action is in good shape too from what I can tell. I really don't know much at all about shotguns so you all will have to be patient with me. Thanks in advance!

[Kind of Blued]

There very well could be a plug in the mag tube.

Go to Remington's website, narrow it down to 870 shotguns, and you should be able to download the Owner's Manual by clicking an icon on the left side.

[atrain08]

Thanks, I just downloaded the manual and I am looking at it now.

[Badger Arms]

Pawn shop buys are often dicey. It's either somebody who needs the money or somebody that's trying to dump a lemon.

I don't think you have a lemon, but you probably have issues that are fairly simple to solve if you'll bear with the experts here. First, to take the plug out, you must unscrew the barrel nut at the front of the magazine. If there is a metal plug at the end of the magazine, it must be pried gently out. If there is a plastic plug, you just push it in and turn it 90 degrees to fee it, I think.

The plug and spring will then slide out the front of the magazine. Now, look down the magazine and make sure it's clean.

Also, the first thing to check is if you're using the right ammo for the gun. Check to ensure you have 12ga for a 12ga gun, 20ga for a 20ga, etc. The 20ga will be yellow, btw. I'm not trying to be condescending, it's just a good place to start with a shotgun novice.

[atrain08]

Pawn shop buys are often dicey. It's either somebody who needs the money or somebody that's trying to dump a lemon.

I don't think you have a lemon, but you probably have issues that are fairly simple to solve if you'll bear with the experts here. First, to take the plug out, you must unscrew the barrel nut at the front of the magazine. If there is a metal plug at the end of the magazine, it must be pried gently out. If there is a plastic plug, you just push it in and turn it 90 degrees to fee it, I think.

The plug and spring will then slide out the front of the magazine. Now, look down the magazine and make sure it's clean.

Also, the first thing to check is if you're using the right ammo for the gun. Check to ensure you have 12ga for a 12ga gun, 20ga for a 20ga, etc. The 20ga will be yellow, btw. I'm not trying to be condescending, it's just a good place to start with a shotgun novice.

Thanks for the instructions on taking out the plug (it had one). Quite a long plug at that. It now holds four shells, and yes the ammo is 12 gauge. It seems to cycle remington shells fine if I am fairly *rough* with it.

[Badger Arms]

The first thing I'd suspect is that you have a dirty gun. Not the bore, but the shell latches. Often, they get gunk such as sand, twigs, etc. built up behind them that prevents them from moving freely. To test this, unlolad the firearm and ensure the chamber and magazine are empty. Put the safety on and keep your finger off the trigger.

Now, close the slide on an empty chamber. Turn the gun upside down so the barrel is pointed away from you and in a safe direction. Depress the sheet metal carrier in the loading port and depress the shell latch on the right side as you look down at the loading port. It should move freely in and out under spring tension. It moves about 1/8" in and out. This is the latch that holds your shells in the magazine. The tip should go up in front of the first shell in the mag tube.

Next, depress the slide release on trigger guard and pull the slide back until the shell latch on the left side of the loading port pops out. Push the carrier out of the way and test that the latch on the left side moves freely under spring tension. if they seem sticky or you can hear the gunk underneath them... that's probably your problem. Report back on what happens.

[atrain08]

The first thing I'd suspect is that you have a dirty gun. Not the bore, but the shell latches. Often, they get gunk such as sand, twigs, etc. built up behind them that prevents them from moving freely.

I will look into that tomorrow. It's getting a bit late for me to figure it out tonight. Is there a way for me to figure out when this thing was made from the serial number on the receiver? it starts with a C and ends with M (I assume the M is for magnum). I found a chart online somewhere but I was having some trouble figuring it out, probably because its late.

[Badger Arms]

You need a code from the barrel, left side of gun just in front of the frame. My Express Trukey model has a code of "KO" which corresponds to May of 1994 born on date. The Remington Society (of which I'm a proud member) lists this really good guide:

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/questions/barrelcodes

[Kind of Blued]

I'd set aside a decent chunk of time, sit down with your manual and your gun, and don't get up until you know what every part does, it's clean as a whistle, and lightly lubricated anywhere that metal rubs on metal.

You'll get to know the gun, appreciate it more, and probably figure out any "bugs" which are still keeping it from running 100%.

[dflorida]

A really common problem with pump shotguns especially is a dirty chamber. It can look clean to the untrained eye, but have minute particles of fouling that impede ejection of a spent hull. A simple fix is to take 4/0 steel wool and wrap it around a short length of 3/8" wooden dowel and chuck it up in your 3/8" drill. Add some bore cleaning solvent to the steel wool and then insert it into the chamber and take it for a good spin.
You absolutely will not harm the chamber in any way. The steel wool is much softer than the chamber steel. What it will do is totally remove any microscopic particles of fouling and leave you with a super clean, polished chamber. You must remove the barrel of course before you do this.
If you don't have a piece of dowel, an alternate method is to take an old bore brush and wrap it with steel wool and accomplish the same thing.
When you are finished cleaning the chamber with the steel wool, wipe it clean and lightly oil it with an oiled patch.
Your ejection problems will be a thing of the past.
Don

[vicdotcom]

It seems to cycle remington shells fine if I am fairly *rough* with it.
Rack it like it slapped your mom. Don't worry it wont break. No need to be gentile. But I would also check the areas that other members have stated.

[Lee Lapin]

Best bet to establish a manufacturing date is to call 1-800-243-9700 during business hours in NC and ask Remington directly. You need the model number and full serial number.

Barrels are interchangeable...

lpl

[atrain08]

Thanks a lot everyone, I really appreciate the help. I'm going to go through the gun tonight when I get off work and give it a thorough cleaning. My father bought a shotgun yesterday as well after many years of not owning one, and I tried to help him out with it but when it comes to these I really can't offer much. I'm going to post up another thread about it.

[Bix]

Just keep in mind that cycling live ammunition through a shotgun (particularly one of unknown condition) always carries the possibility of an accidental - or negligent - discharge.

Action proving dummy rounds, along with a safe backstop, are best for dinking around with the gun off the range:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=6811&title=SHOTGUN%20ACTION%20PROVING%20DUMMIES

[atrain08]

Well I just got back from the range a few minutes ago and did some shooting with both the new shotguns. The Remington 870 would not pull ANY shells out of the magazine tube. The little piece of metal that keeps the shells in the magazine tube is not moving out of the way when the action is open, therefore not letting the round enter the chamber. I'm guessing it either has some dirt or something under it or it is bent. I'm going to disassemble it in a little while and see if I can sort it out. The good news is that I was able to hit about 50% of the clay pigeons! I was told that was pretty good for a newbie.

[Badger Arms]

Disassemble the shotgun and then you can kinda pry the shell latch out. It is so difficult to bend this that it's really not likely that's what happened. There's a little tab that sticks up from the shell latch that engages a 'wedge-shaped' cam on the left action bar. This should be engaging and pushing the latch out of the way as you pump the action. If the latch is jammed, the action bar will stick when it hits this. That could certainly explain your problem.

When you get the latch out, clean the dickens out of the well behind the latch and remove any rusts you see with steel wool. Do the same to the latch itself. Lube both then wipe most of the lube off so it's not attracting any more debris. Reassemble and the gun should function fine.

If this DOESN'T work, replace the shell latch:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=319652#enlarge

... and if THAT doesn't work I'd cry. :(

[atrain08]

Okay, I'll try what you said right now. Here is a couple pics for reference.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff177/mx400/shotguns/IMG_1815.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff177/mx400/shotguns/IMG_1818.jpg

[Virginian]

Hard to be positive, but it really looks like the shell latch is bent. That wedge shaped part of the action bar is the cam surface that should have moved the shell latch out of the way. The engagement finger could be broken, but it looks like the bar part of the shell latch is moved back, and the finger on the other side is still catching the shell.

[Badger Arms]

Hmmm, I'm posting a marked-up version of your picture. If your shell latch is bent, you'd be best to buy a new one. Me? I'd put it in a vice and tap it out. Looks like that gap in the picture is not big enough. Could be something underneath the latch though.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=96899&stc=1&d=1240533806

[atrain08]

Okay I found the problem, I think. Its the for-end tube assembly. Now I have to decide if I want to take the gun back and have him give me something else or keep it and fix the part. Looks like the part is $36.00 plus shipping. I don't know if that makes it worth keeping. What do you all think?
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff177/mx400/shotguns/IMG_1822.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff177/mx400/shotguns/IMG_1821.jpg

[Virginian]

Badger, the cam/wedge has already gone by the latch finger. Isn't the gap too big?

[Virginian]

I don't think that battered rail is all that's wrong with it. The shell latch engagement finger is past that point and it still isn't releasing. I think that thing would be going back if I could. Looks like somebody assembled it wrong and tried to force things before figuring out what they had done.

[atrain08]

I don't think that battered rail is all that's wrong with it. The shell latch engagement finger is past that point and it still isn't releasing. I think that thing would be going back if I could. Looks like somebody assembled it wrong and tried to force things before figuring out what they had done.

I agree. Looks like the shell latches and and everything is pretty warn. They had a Benelli nova for sale, that looked to be in real good shape. I would probably have to put another $100 with this one to get it though. Thoughts?

[Virginian]

If they won't pay for the parts to put it right I would let them have it back. Those battered places where the slide assembly sits on the forend tube assembly don't make sense, and there is obviously another problem with the shell latch(s?).

[Badger Arms]

Your replacement parts will cost you about $50 from Midway. Buy a new latch an new action tube assembly here:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=995851

Be careful, though. There are now two types of tubes. One has an extra notch in the rear, IIRC. The one I list here might not be the correct one. It actually looks like you have the "Old Style". Remington changed to a new style with a more gradual slope. I'll post a picture. The new, more gentle wedge slope style is on the left.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=96903&stc=1&d=1240535870

[Badger Arms]

Yeah, I really have to go with what Virginian is saying. I'd take it back and ask them to either take the gun back... it was a broken gun... or make it right for you. Between your (and our) time here and the money spent on ammo as well as that you'd have to spend to fix the gun, I think it should at least come out of their profit margin.

Obviously, the reason the gun was pawned was because the monkey that owned it prior dicked it up.

[Badger Arms]

hmmmm, double checking the pic, is that the same cam? It looks like this is your interrupter (right) latch cam. The one you were having problems with was your left cam. Can't tell from the pic, but ... well, yeah, I can. It's either your right latch or your slide slots? Either way... dicked up, replacement costs AT LEAST $50, probably closer to $100 with a new bolt slide and right latch as well. Benelli nova sounds like a bad idea if it's from the same shop. I'd want my cash back.

[atrain08]

hmmmm, double checking the pic, is that the same cam? It looks like this is your interrupter (right) latch cam. The one you were having problems with was your left cam. Can't tell from the pic, but ... well, yeah, I can. It's either your right latch or your slide slots? Either way... dicked up, replacement costs AT LEAST $50, probably closer to $100 with a new bolt slide and right latch as well. Benelli nova sounds like a bad idea if it's from the same shop. I'd want my cash back.

Well, it being a pawnshop I doubt they would give me my money back, and since we got the two guns as a package deal I would probably not get as much back as I should. In the owners defense, I doubt he would have known this gun had the problem unless he took it apart and checked it out. Plus unless you know what you are looking at you might over look it. By the way, the marking on the barrel says RN, isn't that November 1922? As long as he will keep trading me a different gun I should eventually get a good one! http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/questions/barrelcodes

[Badger Arms]

No, silly, that's 1993. The codes repeat, uh, every 26 years by my rough calculations. If you give us more pictures of your latches, bolt slide, action bars, etc, we could probably tell you what parts you need to order. Then toss the old ones in the trash.

[hometheaterman]

If you and your dad are both having problems with the guns you bought I'd never deal with that pawn shop again. BTW If they would let me trade up for a Benelli Nova I'd do that for sure as long as the Nova was in nice shape.

[atrain08]

I will let you all know what happens tomorrow. Considering what I already have in the gun I don't really want to spend $60+ on parts.

[atrain08]

Well I took the Remington 870 back today. The owner looked at it and tried to cycle a few rounds through it and sure enough it wasn't working so he apologized, and offered me a refund or trade for another shotgun. Since I had been eying the Nova I traded for it. I cycled a bunch of rounds through the Nova and it works great! I also fully disassembled it and looked at all the things that were a problem on the Remington 870 and all the parts look like new in this Nova. Although I did not get to shoot it today I am confident that this is a good one. None of the paint is even worn off the internals, so I don't think its been shot much. I couldn't find any powder residue inside it either. Thanks a lot for all the help you guys offered me. I really appreciate it. I do have one more questions though. What choke do you all recommend for shooting clay pigeons? I want to get fairly good at shooting this shotgun before I try to hunt the real thing. Thanks again

[Badger Arms]

For trap, I prefer Modified Cylinder. For skeet, I shoot with a "Skeet" choke. It's a little over Cylinder. For sporting Clays, I shoot with the skeet choke too, but I've been thinking about switching to Improved cylinder. Just don't shoot sporting clays often enough.

[hometheaterman]

For trap I like my full choke as I like to shoot them farther out. However, a buddy that's really good likes a modified for his. It all seems to be a personal preference.

BTW as long as that Nova is in good shape I think you made a great choice.

[atrain08]

For trap I like my full choke as I like to shoot them farther out. However, a buddy that's really good likes a modified for his. It all seems to be a personal preference.

BTW as long as that Nova is in good shape I think you made a great choice.

Thanks. I will probably try a full choke for now since I am slow. If I am understanding things correctly, the modified choke is better for people that are quick and can shoot the clays while they are close. Hopefully I can graduate a modified chokes sometime.

[atrain08]

Well I put 75 rounds through the Nova today and it performed flawlessly. I really like it. I can see this sport getting very expensive quickly! It is a lot of fun. Almost more fun than shooting my handguns.

[atrain08]

I'm glad you got your problem worked out. I had a similar problem with a new Pardner Pump (an 870 clone) I bought. I had the parts replaced where I bought the gun and it works perfectly now.

All manufactuers have problems at times. It stinks when it happens to you. I've bought a lot of guns in my life but this was the first one I ever bought that had a problem right out of the box. Hopefully I won't have any more luck like that in the future.

You did the right thing by going back to the seller. I've had sellers help me months after buying a gun from them even when I should have had to deal with the factory myself.

Looks like you have a pretty good list of guns already so I suppose you know these things already. Again it's good you had your problem fixed.


Thanks, I'm glad it worked out as well. Like you, That Remington 870 was my first firearm that I had problems with. Everything else has worked flawlessly without a single jam, or hiccup.

[Virginian]

I have seen a lot of 870s. 58s, 878s, and 1100s, and I have never seen a set of action rails beat up that bad in that location before. Looked like Arnold was using it for arm strength training back in the pre-Gov. days. Too late now, but I wonder what the back of the bolt and rear inside of the receiver looked like. The 1100 has a plastic buffer, and I doubt they hit anywhere near that hard.

[Badger Arms]

I have seen a lot of 870s. 58s, 878s, and 1100s, and I have never seen a set of action rails beat up that bad in that location before.


Agreed wholeheartedly. I've seen abuse before. I've seen the notches battered and 'mushroomed' out like those on a pin punch that has been beat on for years. I've seen bent things and amature gunsmithed things. I've seen dremmel scars next to the abused sites on guns people were trying to peddle at the shows...

But I've NEVER seen any abused this badly. You really can't abuse it much further because the gun will cease functioning... as it did in this case. This should be a lesson that when you're buying a used gun, outward appearance is not so much an indicator of condition as a good function check and peek at the internals.