[Balog]

I know it's rather premature, but I like to plan well in advance. I'm looking for a place to live. Currently, I live in Arizona. I'm enlisted in the USMC, hope to be going to basic around January. While it is possible that I'll make a career of it, most likely I'll be in for four years. I'll either be trained as a armorer (ie gunsmith) as my MOS, or I'll use the TAP or GI Bill to attend a school for it. Either way, I'm gonna be trying to go into the gun business. I had always planned on ending up in northern Arizona. Pretty country, good climate(not as hot in the summer, but not freezing in the winter), cheap land (forty acre parcels from $15,000), close enough to my (and my wife's) family for visits, a LOT of gun related industry, and I've always thought of AZ as home. But lately I've been seriously considering the advantages of Alaska. Let me lay out my reasons.
1) CCW law. Vermont carry if you want, and a permit system if you need reciprocity. Lovely.
2) Taxes. It is my understanding that Alaska has the lowest combined state and federal tax burden of all fifty states.
3) Wilderness. I grew up in relatively undeveloped country, and I really, REALLY, REALLY hate the city. A house is bad enough, but living in an apartment makes me feel like Agent Smith from the first Matrix. "I must get out, I must get free."
4) Self-sufficiency. Everything from home-schooling our kids (when we have 'em), to supplementing our diets with hunting, fishing, trapping, and planting, to living off the grid for things like water and electricity.
5) Less government meddling. I don't know for sure, but I've always heard that Alaska is pretty low on the bureaucrat-o-meter.

I've got some reservations, tho'. Finding work is a biggie. I don't know if I'll be able to handle the cold, but since there is a decent chance I'll spend my tour in Russia I guess I'll find out;) . I have no idea what land costs, and there is always the fear that the NPS will confiscate it to preserve an endangered species of rat or something.

As I said, it's a few years off yet. There are other states I'm considering (Texas, Montana, Wyoming, New Hampshire), but so far Alaska is way out in front. I'm really just looking for resources to use as a jumping off point for research. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Keith]

A couple of things...

Much of Alaska has very mild winters! Here in Kodiak, it's not even cold enough to snow most of the winter. Typically, it's 40ish and damp even in January and February. Southeast Alaska is even milder.

There are no individual state taxes of any kind. Back in the oil boom they simply invested the excess revenue in the stock market and the dividends from that investment pay for all state services.
There is a separate portfolio that pays dividends directly to all the citizens and that amount varies according to the market. A few years ago, it was up about $2400 per individual - family of four; nearly 10K! Now with the market down, it's down to about $1100 or so.

And you're right about the state not meddling in affairs. There isn't much bureaucracy to deal with.

The bad side is jobs... If you don't have a marketable trade, you probably shouldn't come up. Costs are high and it's very difficult to just "work your way up" as you can do in places with a lower cost of living.

Keith

[TallPine]

One thing that you have to be aware of is the limited road system up there.

You don't just jump into your 4x4 pickup and head into the back country, because the "back country" is all roadless.

That's a great thing because there is some true wilderness instead of a few hundred yards between roads, but you either have to fly or boat to get anywhere in a short time - like on a weekend. Or snow machine in the winter. Some people do ( or used to ) have these big tired swamp buggies for getting around.

"It's a damn good life if you don't weaken ...." :)

[Balog]

Hmmm, would "machinist/gunsmith" be considered a marketable skill?

[Keith]

Go to adn.com and look at the help wanted ads.

Keith

[jrhead75]

You're doing what I wanted to do! I wanted to be an armorer, the Corps needed Avionics Techs...so there I was (got to do some helicopter door-gunning, but I digress...). Started into gunsmithing courses on the GI bill after I got out...Wife and kid on the way dictated that I get a regular job. Been making pretty good money ever since, but not doing what I want.

I'm no Alaska expert, but I know that being a good machinist/gunsmith will most likely earn you a good living wherever you choose to live...go for it, and good luck!

[duckfoot]

Hmmm, would "machinist/gunsmith" be considered a marketable skill?

machinist?

yes

Didn't someone say that the founder Ruger guy was a machinist or something, at first then made guns later on?

[tetleyb]

Wow, very interesting post. In fact, falls right in line with what I've been thinking about. I've also wondered about retiring in Alaska. I've ten years to go and will be getting a very decent retirement, so a marketable trade isn't something I would really need to worry about.

I also like the outdoors, little taxes, and no government snooping all over me. I could easily sell my house in California and purchase one in Alaska, on land, for much less and pocket the leftover.

One of the things which was nagging me was the weather. However, Keith kinda cleared that up for me.

What I would really like to know is: Where can I find a decent house, not very close to people, however still close to a fairly large city? A city which has the normal comforts (supermarkets, etc) I would need?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Ant Mod]

2) Taxes. It is my understanding that Alaska has the lowest combined state and federal tax burden of all fifty states.

That would be Nevada. They dont have a state income tax and the Federal tax is the same no matter where you live.

[c_yeager]

If im not mistaken not only does Alaska not have an income tax, they have a tendancy to refund tax dollars directly to the public on an anual basis. Wasnt it something like $2000 each last time?

[NIGHTWATCH]

One other thing to consider that has not been mentioned. :)

Judging from your post, I take it that you are single? Alaska is VERY short on women. :(
Something you should know if your going to consider such a big move....it gets lonely in dem dar hills. ;)

[cameroneod]

Alaska is VERY short on women


A common misconseption that I hear all the time. It really depends on where you are. I met my girl here, and believe me, there is no shortage of good looking women... WHO LOVE TO SHOOT!!!

As for the jobs, its actually pretty easy. You can easily get a job on the slope as a roustabout. Just doing odd jobs on the oilfields. Pays decent, but its two on and two off. Or three and two, four and two, etc. Working the boats is also an option. Before I joined the military I worked the Berring Sea on a crabbin ship. HARD work. 100% injury rate. But the upside is that you can make enough to last you all year. That way youve got the time to work on your place, and take advantage of some of the best hunting and fishing in the world. You can do the cannery thing, tender boats, drift netters, long liners, etc, etc, etc.

On the Kenai, you can always work the tourism. Fishing and hunting guides make good money if they themselves are any good. Buddy of mine makes Ulus for a living and hes clearing 300g's a year. Not too shabby. Point is, there isnt a shortage of work unless you plan on moving to one of the islands. Then it gets a little iffy.

All in all, Id say that the move is worth it. No matter where your from, and no matter what the choices are. Id rather live in Alaska then anywhere else on the planet.

[TarpleyG]

I keep teasing my wife about moving there but she keeps complaining about the lack of daylight for a good portion of the year. It's my contention that is a factor only in the northern latitudes, not so much down south. Any comments about that???

GT

[cameroneod]

It really depends on how far North you are. True its going to be a LOT darker for about three months out of the year, but in the summer you just have that much more light. Most of the time, the days are just as they would be anywhere else. I do remember when I was in school, and I hated it being dark when I got to school, and being dark when I got out. Never got to see the hour of "daylight." Thats really only in the dead of winter though. The further north you are, the more dramatic its going to be. Same goes for the weather.

[Balog]

NIGHTWATCH :

Actually I just got married (March 1). I try to post in the first person singular as I find it easier. However, my wife is all for the idea. She's very enthusiastic about it. :D

I have this lovely little dream. Some may call it a fantasy, but it keeps me going. I see my family living on land we own. Say a few hundred acres. There's a little box canyon were I've got a 1000 yard rifle range set up. We don't have a massive income, but it's more than enough. My wife's finished her schooling and is an RN, but she mainly puts this to use by serving as a midwife for home births (she added this part;) ). Between growing a few crops, raising some animals, and enjoying nature's provision (hunting, fishing, and trapping) the only things we buy on a regular basis are reloading and medical supplies. We've home-schooled our kids so they're actually kids, not numb-minded robots who've had any spark of curiosity and creativity stamped out by the socialist subject factories called the public "education" system. Best of all, we're doing it without being harrassed by the government. If I want to build on my land, I do. If I want to cut down some trees to make room for this building, I do. If I judge my child mature enough to carry a gun or drive a truck (on my property of course), I let them. Even if they don't meet the "minimum age" requirement. If I want to show my kids what happens when you shoot a propane cylinder with tracers, I do (while being conscious of the fire hazard). If I want to go to town with a concealed pistol, I can. And I don't have to get permission from the state to exercise this God given right. If I make money, the state doesn't steal it from me to give to someone who's too damn stupid or lazy to work. Heck, they give me money, and it comes from free market investments instead of being stolen from someone else! What all this amounts to is that my family is free.

Maybe it's unrealistic, crazy even. And maybe I'll never achieve all of those things. But every time I drive into our apartment complex and see a cop car (I see an average of three cop cars a week, and I'm not even home that much), every time I see a police chopper chasing someone through our neighborhood with a spotlight (once every couple months), every time I have to step over the crap my neighbors have left lying in the hallway to my apartment, every time I think about the fact that some random maintenance guy has a key to my apartment, every day I sit in an office shoveling paper only to get a paycheck and wonder where 17% of it went, every time my wife steps out the door without the tools to defend herself because she doesn't have a piece of paper from the state, every single time I talk to my friends who work for public schools and hear horror stories, in other words pretty much every hour of every day; I think about my dream. I don't know if I'll get there. I don't know if I'll ever actually taste true freedom and independence. But by God, it's worth fighting for.

[NIGHTWATCH]

Amen to that brother. ;)

[Keith]

Daylight - as somebody else explained, it varies by where you are. This is a really, really, BIG place! If you overlaid Alaska on a map of the lower 48, the Aleutians would stick out past San Diego, Ketchikan would be near Miami, and Barrow in North Dakota. Different climates, different lattitudes, different terrain. Southeast is temperate rainforest where snow is a rarity. The North Slope is true arctic tundra. Southcentral is a climate like Wisconsin/Michigan - dairy farms and giant pumpkins grown for the fair.

In Kodiak, we get about four and a half or five hours of daylight at the Winter Solstice - late December. It's actually kind of grim because even when the sun is up, it's only a handspan above the southern horizon (if you can see it because it's usually rainy in the winter). You lose 5 to 8 minutes a day up to december 21st, and then start gaining 5 to 8 minutes a day. It doesn't last long, by late January it's much brighter, the sun is up higher and stays up much longer.
By May you're complaining that you can't sleep because the sun is shining in your windows late at "night". Here, we get four and a half hours of "darkness" in early summer - but it never gets really dark because the sun just dips below the horizon and rises a few degrees east of where it set. You get a few hours of twilight with a bright red glow from the south. You can read a book at two in the morning, outdoors.

The one thing I've never gotten used to in all these years is that the summer sun doesn't "cross the sky". You don't realize until you move here that you unconsciously measure time and orient yourself in other ways by that sun crossing the sky from east to west. It doesn't do that here (in summer)! It goes AROUND the sky in a parabola, instead of "across" it. So, you lose all sense of time - so you go out fishing in early afternoon after telling the wife you'll be back in time to take her out to dinner and drinks. You're having a great time and catching lots of fish, and you finally check your watch and - it's freaking MIDNIGHT! And no amount of beautiful salmon filets is going to make amends - you're sleeping on the couch!
Or, most hunters and hikers sort of subconsciously gauge east-west-north-south by the sun. You might not even realize you do it, but you do - until you move here and hike six miles back into the boonies and realize you don't have a clue which way home is. You'd better learn quick to carry a compass and make mental notes about landmarks.

You never really get used to it, but you learn to live with the long winter nights and you learn to love the long summer days.

Sorry for the book - I'm on my third cup of coffee!

Oh, and land... Land is expensive in Alaska! Unless you've got really deep pockets you probably aren't going to get that 300 or 500 acre parcel you dream about. But, the good news is that you can do just about anything, anywhere - you've got something like 600,000 square MILES of land and only a fraction of that is populated. Something like 75% of the population lives in and around Anchorage and the rest of the state is empty. You can go out and shoot your rifles with your kids - and even blow up those propane bottles if you wish, though I hope you clean up the mess afterwards!

Keith

[Bill Hook]

This is unrelated to your choice of residence, but might I suggest that you get training as a machinist instead, or in addition to gunsmithing? There seem to be a lot of gunsmiths who are only marginal as machinists and the few smiths I've met who are doing well do it as a hobby after retiring from some other job, relying on their pensions for income. Machinists, OTOH, can find a job more readily and nothing stops you from cross-training.

EDIT: I see others have mentioned this too, after reading more. I should also note that a gunsmith will need to live on the beaten path, as your customers won't come if they have to fly/canoe etc. into the backcountry.


I worked the Berring Sea on a crabbin ship. HARD work. 100% injury rate. But the upside is that you can make enough to last you all year.

Bad idea, IMO. Supposedly, this is the most dangerous job in the world and one man dies every week doing it. Also, the money didn't seem THAT good, particularly if you were a tenderfoot, since you didn't get a full share of the catch. Otherwise, the guys seems like they could clear $50-60K in 8 weeks. This assumes that they don't lose their ship, which seemed pretty frequent.

[Balog]

Bill Hook wrote: This is unrelated to your choice of residence, but might I suggest that you get training as a machinist instead, or in addition to gunsmithing?

That's the plan, actually. Prolly didn't make that clear, tho.

Keith: I don't know about the price of land, but this family bought over four hundred acres http://www.adn.com/front/story/4087582p-4105320c.html. The story is pretty vague about the terms of the loan, but I thought I would look into something like this. Also, it is my understanding that ex-servicemen can get pretty good low to no interest loans. And that really is just the ideal situation. I'd be happy with less.

P.S. I would definitely clean up after blowing up the propane.:evil:

[cameroneod]

Supposedly, this is the most dangerous job in the world and one man dies every week doing it. Also, the money didn't seem THAT good, particularly if you were a tenderfoot, since you didn't get a full share of the catch. Otherwise, the guys seems like they could clear $50-60K in 8 weeks. This assumes that they don't lose their ship, which seemed pretty frequent.

Not a bad idea. The ends justifies the means. It is pretty dangerous, and if that kind of thing bothers you, dont do it. The money IS good. Your first trip, youll most likely be the "bait B!^(H" and the money isnt really that good. Not bad, but nothing great. People quit the boats all the time so on your next trip, youll move up and someone else will get plucked from the docks to work bait. Then your making good money. Working boats is pretty rewarding. The whole point was that jobs arent scarce in AK. :cool:

[Keith]

I don't know about the price of land, but this family bought over four hundred acres

I think somebody mentioned it above, but probably the biggest thing that outsiders don't get about Alaska is that there aren't any roads! So yeah, you can get an old mine holding out in the boonies someplace at a good price, but you won't be able to get there except on foot, or by plane.
You have to pay for things like clothing, food medical care, and that means a job - and a job means showing up every day. Check related stories on ADN and you'll see that this Pilgrim family is living on handouts from supporters. And they owe a bunch of people money who they've screwed over the years.
People here just plain don't like the feds, so these Pilgrims are getting handouts from sympathizers. But note the central issue - they want to build a ROAD and the feds say "no".

If you want to buy land that you can get to in a motor vehicle, you'll pay a lot. Check adn.com for real estate and note the road access vs prices. You can get a five or ten acre plot without killing yourself in some areas. And there is still the "land lottery" where you can apply and get a parcel from the state for next to nothing. There's a web site somewhere with info on that - google up "Alaska Land Lottery" and you'll find it.

I used to watch that TV show Northern Exposure. I thought it was great show with clever and thoughtful writing. But one thing they always got wrong was that somebody would jump in their car to "drive to Nome". And of course there is no road to Nome. It's 1100 miles of mountains and tundra between Nome and the nearest road. Or, on almost every episode somebody would drive over to the neighboring town of Sleetmute - no roads to Sleetmute. Heck, you can't even drive to the state capital! There is an 18 thousand foot mountain range between Juneau and the nearest road.

Keith

[cameroneod]

Heck, you can't even drive to the state capital! There is an 18 thousand foot mountain range between Juneau and the nearest road.

Sure you can. If you dont mind sitting on the ferry for a while. :D :D :D

[Balog]

Keith wrote:But note the central issue - they want to build a ROAD and the feds say "no".


According to the story there was a road, and they didn't get into trouble until they took a bulldozer to it. And from the way it looks, they probably only got in trouble for that because they didn't try to work with the NPS's JBT's. But I hear what you're saying, access is a big problem. Definitely something to consider.

P.S. These are the statutes they are claiming access rights under, as taken from the adn story I linked to above:

"RS 2477, an 1866 mining statute getting new attention as a way for states to claim historic rights of way across federal land."

&

"the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act, the 1980 law that created Wrangell-St. Elias National Park. The law guaranteed "adequate and feasible" access to inholdings, subject to "reasonable regulation" by the Park Service."

[Keith]

Well, I don't want to argue the Pilgrim case here! On a philosophical level, I agree with the Pilgrims - they ought to be able to build a road! I just wish they were nicer people.

But again - what they are referring to as the current "road" is not what a non-Alaskan would call a "road". It's a trail that you can cover by foot or horse in the summer, and by snow machine in the winter. You can't drive it with any sort of vehicle - or maybe you can now after their bulldozer work!

If you pull up a map of the Kodiak road system, you'll see a little network of roads on the NE corner of the island, around the town. One of those roads is known as the Saltery Road, and it's on every map you can find. But it's not a road at all; it's a trail with a dozen or so river crossings, a mountain pass, deep boulder-filled ravines with fifty or sixty degree slopes, etc. They'd call that a foot trail anywhere else, and they'd post warnings that it's a dangerous trail - but in Alaska, it's a "road".

And there are "roads" like that all over the place. Some of them are old mining roads that have eroded away in the last century, and some are just old dog-sled trails between villages - still used with snow machines in the winter.

Keith

[Bill Hook]

I'm sure the connection is obvious, but the lack of roads is the major reason why there isn't a shopping mall and Starbucks just outside of Denali, etc. and that the scenery isn't littered w/ gum wrappers and styrofoam cups.

[Wildalaska]

And check it out..our largest city, Anchorage, is an ethnically diverse progreeive (to the extent that everyone can live their own lifestyle without a lot of thupers) modern US city (except for architecture) with some fine resteraunts and shopping...

And you can carry a gun anytime ya want...

Try ordering Thai food with an MP5 under your coat anywhere else...

WilddimsumAlaska

[Balog]

Keith: Didn't mean to get into a debate about the Pilgrim's. I was assuming that the "roads" would mean "trail passable by a deuce and a half or decent pickup with a bit of upkeep." Good to know what's meant by that word up there:)

[Cosmoline]

Land on the road system can be VERY cheap once you get outside the Anchorage radius of 65 miles or so. I recently bought five acres in the Mat-Su valley for $2,000 an acre and am currently turning it into my own personal compound. I won't say it isn't tough. It is. Even in the mild South-Central, you can expect rough cold nights. But after a while you get used to it.

There is plenty of land to be had. www.landinalaska.com has quite a few properties on the block. "Remote" means no road, which makes it tougher to develop. I'd keep an eye out for parcels on the road system that have neither zoning nor CC&R's. The covenants are a major issue. How free can you be if the CC&R's mandate a lawn with 2" grass and no dogs? Thankfully, Alaska is one of the last places in the world where can escape the petty rules and busybody neighbors. Just stay out of Anchorage!

If you look deeply at the real estate prices, you will notice a magic line north of Anchorage, BTW. It hits about Mile 70. Beyond that, land is still very cheap because nobody in their right mind will commute that distance. The closer you get to Anchorage the higher the prices get. I wouldn't even consider trying to buy in Eagle River, Eklutna, or even Goat Creek. The good lots are all taken, and what's left is overpriced. For good, cheap, level land on the road system, you gotta go North. Once beyond Mile 70, the whole thing opens up and you can find a ton of cheap land on the roads.

[Keith]

Try ordering Thai food with an MP5 under your coat anywhere else...

I thought an MP5 was for ordering Schnitzel? I need to get into town more often, I'm getting out of touch with this whole Nouvelle Cuisine business...

KeithCountryRubeInAlaska

[Wildalaska]

I thought an MP5 was for ordering Schnitzel

No no, MP44s are for schnitzel..

Now for chinese I use a BHP, but others prefer Colts..

You rubes in Kodiak eat way too much fresh crab to truly know the ins and outs of Alaska armed gastronomy....:D

WildfoodfightAlaska

[spacemanspiff]

alright, its been touched on, but needs further elaboration: the cost of living up here is rather high, and sometimes the pay rates dont compensate for this.
grocery shopping is easier in anchorage, and Costco/Sams wholesale clubs are the way to go, but fresh fruits/veggies are pricey.
about the daylight/lack of thing....its mostly a misconception. yes, the sun only raises itself for 4-5 hours during the middle of winter, but if there is snow on the ground, it isnt complete darkness. snow reflects the light, and a person can get sunburned during the coldest winter day if they spent those 5 hours in their shorts. course, if they did that, i think getting sunburned should be the least of their concerns.

if you have to live here in anchorage, you are going to have neighbors. about the only way you can have a couple acre compound is if you have money spilling out your shorts. heck, not even in eagle river can you find a secluded area. so your best bet is out in the mat-su valley with cosmoline.
or! down on the kenai peninsula. theres some great areas down there.

[Keith]

Well, I'm just soooo humiliated! There we were dining on blackened halibut under the umbrellas behind Humpy's last summer, and I had no idea why the waitress was sneering at my Kimber... How was I to know that a blackened fish still falls under the fish/fowl/stainless firearm rule?

At least I stiffed her on the tip...

KeithFirearmsFauxPasIsMyMiddleNameInKodiak

[Balog]

Cosmoline wrote:
I recently bought five acres in the Mat-Su valley for $2,000 an acre

I can get a 40 acre parcel in northern Arizona for $15-$40,000. While $2K per isn't terrible, it's not very cheap in my book.

[Keith]

Here's forty acres for 20K: http://www.landinalaska.com/C165/C165.htm

Keith

[Cosmoline]

Keep in mind there's plenty cheaper that I passed on. But mine is flat, dry, with good well water, little wind and five acres of mixed spruce and birch. And road access--that's the key. If you go off road you can buy the equivalent of a small European nation for what it costs to get a two bedroom in urban California. But you may need to invest in a plane with floats first.

For just plain cheap and easy living, go with the rural south. Alaska will test you in a way sitting on the porch eating takeout from Starks simply won't. :D

[Balog]

DEDICATED PLATTED ACCESS ONLY FROM RICHARDSON HWY.TRAIL ACCESS VIA ATV OR SNOWMACHINE.

What is "platted access"?

[Cosmoline]

Hopefully that means it's an express easement indicated on the relevant plats so nobody will shoot at you if you cross their property. Sounds like there's a trail in place, and depending on how it's set up a trail may be all you're entitled to.

One thing's for sure--never buy raw land up here without coming to look at it in person. Lots of folks have lost their shirts. I spoke with a mother and daughter who had come up to a mining claim and "cabin" on fifty or so acres they bought. Turns out there was no cabin, and no real mine. The seller had long since vanished with their money. SO they ended up alone, wet, cold, and in deep trouble. They're still only just barely making it--living in a small rented trailer.

Have cash on hand when you come, that's for sure. Alaska is not really friendly to poor folks, just by the nature of things it's tough enough if you have a car and some money.

[Balog]

Another point I wonder about is the educational situation up there. Not just four year colleges, but community colleges and trade schools. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I might need to get my machinist/gunsmith training after I get out of the Corps. It seems as though that might actually be for the best. Work a lucrative but short duration job such as boatman on a crabber part of the year, go to school part of the year. That way I'd have some money saved up, and a few years to scout out a desirable location. Of course I'd still be in a more urban environment than I'd like, but it would be better than most other places.

[Don Galt]

I'm considering something very similar... except I'm thinking about doing it next year. Hopefully, buying land early next spring and building a house on it before winter... or buying land with a house on it sometime before winter. Not clear yet how its going to go.

Been thinking I should bring my partner up so she can see Alaska. I've been up there twice, but she's never been. So we were talking about going up in November. Course, it would be nice to drive up so we can go all over while we're there.

IF some Alaskans would indulge me, could you hit me over the head with the cluebat? I have a stock 2003 Toyota Tundra 4WD, V8. Planning to put a camper shell on it or a slide in Camper. What would be required to do to it to drive up there in November or January? I'm assuming I need a block heater... but the Alcan is a long road, and I have camped along side of it in summer, but I imagein a block heater is pointless if you can't plug it in! Are there alternatives? Is it viable to plan to stay at a hotel each night on the Alcan? When I last drove it, the hotels seemed too spread out, and I had the slide in camper then anyway.... I believe we can camp in the truck down to about zero degress F, but I have no idea how cold the Alcan gets in November (or January!) I'm mostly concerned about something happening to the truck with the cold...

Secondly, what's the soil like in the Kenai and parts south? I've seen reports that the soil in SE Alaska is 4-5 feet of gravel covered by bedrock. When I was north of Fairbanks, the Tundra seemed to be mostly frozen water and not so much gravel, and it seemed like each year it would shift and break and all that.... so all the buildings were built on stilts. Is this necessary in parts of alaska south of Anchorage?

Assuming the land is in Kenai, Kokiak, or possibly north of Talkeetna:

What I think I want to buy is 40-80 acres, about 2 miles away from a road. I want to build using Cinderblock (hopefully locally sourced). I want to put in that 1-2 mile road (well, hire someone local to do it). Think a gravel road can be built for $5,000 (2 miles.) I figure I'll do much of the maintenance on it after its built... but I don't know much about what needs to be done on ground that can move.

But mostly I'm concerned about the ground in these areas... if the bedrock is 5 feet deep, I figure I can put in pilings down to the bedrock (cement) and shore up the footing, and then put in a foundation like a typical slab house (with rebar sticking out vertically) and then build cinderblock on top of that, and bond it to the footing and foundation with cement and the rebar. But that information was for SE alaska which is mostly mountains and islands... whats the soil like in Homer or Kenai north of there? OR around Seldovia? How about Talkeetna and north to Denali in those areas? I figure north of Anchorage its going to be more tundra and less soil.

I know Alaskans seem to be fond of mobile buildings, log cabins, and wood buildings on pilings. _IF southern Alaska, is like the north slope, and I pretty much need pilings, that throws out Cinderblock, and I'm just one that figures if I'm going to put the labor into building my own house, I really don't want to build it out of wood. Any thoughts? Any of you dug any holes in this region or know about the building types and issues?

We may end of living in temporary shelter initially. One thing that's surprised me is that there isn't as much wind in these areas as I expected. One of you mentioned finding land that didn't have wind as a good feature... I'm wanting wind so that I can put in wind generators... figure solar is great half the year. I'll probably put in some other fuel system, or maybe even have a hook up to electricity... but I would like to at least have a self sufficient contingency plan.

I'm sure lots of people move to Alaska and get in over their heads... unfortunately, they aren't writing books "My failure in Alaska" or "Alaska- not for the faint hearted" so its hard for me to learn from their mistakes. Really want to make sure the enthusiastic girlfriend will be enthusiastic after the move. And want to make sure I can handle the winter there.

I'll say one thing... I moved to Seattle because Texas was too hot. Now Seattle is too hot for me.

[igor]

Just 800km from the polar circle here too... Don G., these (http://webasto-thermo.com) are pretty often used for maintaining starting heat, actually the brand has become to mean "fuel-driven engine block heater" here... :D I'm getting one for my next car, now I've got a Defa electric one.

[cameroneod]

You couldnt pay me enough to drive the Alcan in January. LOL Buy land on the Kenai. IMO its the most beautifull part of Alaska. As long as your not trying to buy land right in the town of Kenai, or Soldotna you should come out pretty cheap. If anyone is interested, my dad is selling his place. 10 acres, on the Kasilof River. Gorgeous 4 bedroom house, boat launch, etc, etc, etc. I think its going for 500g's. Only reason its that much is because its on the river. If I had my choice, Id move across the inlet. LOTS of land out there, and its only 20 minutes to Kenai or Soldotna by boat.

[Don Galt]

Thanks for the link, their website is broken for me, so I'll have to find a browser that can browse it. I gather these are heaters that use the battery to start, but heat up the enging block without running the engine? Hmmmmm.....

Why wouldn't you drive the Alcan in January? Too much snow? I've read in Milepost that its kept clear year round.... but I would rather do it in November than January!

And accross which inlet are you talking about? The cook inlet into the northern part of the Aelutians? (Probably not the right term.. the penensula across from Kenai to the west?)

How about Dutch Harbor? Thinking that might work... has marine highway so we can get the vehicle in and out.

Would love to buy the 500G place, but thats out of our price range. :-( IF only I'd taken that job with that company that went public... :banghead:

Do I need a front mounted snow-plow to drive the Alcan in January? I'm sure it couldn't hurt... I wonder if you can get them for a couple hundred dollars, a small emergency one, rather than a big full time one.

Thanks for the thoughts... without living there, its hard to know what its like.

[Cosmoline]

I'd stay away from Dutch unless you like rain and more rain. And wind. The Kenai area is very nice, and not too cold at all. Permafrost isn't a concern until you get up closer to Fairbanks. Where I'm at about 80 miles north of Anchorage, there's a layer of good soil for about 5" or so, then nasty mud/silt for two feet, then nice gravel. If you want a gravel driveway all you have to do is turn five feet of ground upside-down with a backhoe.

I'm building on pressure treated 6"x6" posts buried down to the gravel layer and covered in concrete. I suspect that method would work well anywhere in SC Alaska.

Some advice--put a good winch on that truck! I recently blew out the front end on my S-10 trying to drag an old trailer across the lot. Stupid mistake, and I could have avoided the problem with a nice winch.

[cameroneod]

Its different now, but the last time I drove the Alcan it wasnt even all paved. A plow couldnt hurt, but in a pinch, Id take a winch. Im not too partial to Dutch Harbor, but some people like it. Cook Inlet is what Im talking about (sorry bout that). Beautifull, cheap land. Its only a matter of time before it gets developed, so Id buy it now. Someone mentioned Mat-Su earlier. One thing to think about is that right now land is VERY cheap around there compared to Anchorage, but plans are in the works to make a bridge over to Anchorage. That would put you 15 minutes from the city. Your land value will SKYROCKET. So if your looking for a way to make some money, that would be it. Up on Church Road right outside town there are some awesome plots available. Beautifull land.

[cameroneod]

BTW- If your really considering Dutch, Id at least go check it out first. Swing by the Elbow Room while your there. At least that way you can say youve been into the most dangerous bar in North America. LOL

[Keith]

Dutch Harbor? I don't they are a regular stop on the Marine Highway - more like two or three trips a year, about three days each way. There's not much out there - no hunting to speak of, no trees, 300 days of rain a year. It's a great place to make money, but not such a great place to live.

And honestly, I don't think I'd bring the girlfriend up in the winter to introduce Alaska to her. Show it to her in the summer and let her fall in love with the place. You can put up with December, when you know what July is like.

And winter is not a good time to look at land. You might find the beautiful piece of property you bought is muskeg soup come June.
There are certain places I just wouldn't want to live if I knew what they were like in the summer. Glennallen is such a place - a gorgeous little town in the fall, but come June and clouds of mosquitoes rise off all those ponds and make life a misery...

Keith

[Keith]

Cameron,

I spent many nights at the Elbow Room back in the early 90's. They always had a great house blues band and the beer was cheaper than the Unisea. I hear they've tamed Dutch Harbor somewhat, but back in the day it was such a wild and wooly place that anything could happen.

Deadwood with crab boats!

Keith

[spacemanspiff]

anchoragites arent exactly thrilled about a bridge across the inlet. that would just make the valley people that much closer. (no offense cosmo! :D you're one of the 'good' valley peeps).

you'd have to be crazy to want to drive up the alcan in november/december..... should be okay though once you make it to whitehorse. stay overnight there and then the drive to tok isnt that bad, spend the night there. after that you can hit fairbanks for the next night. fall back on the camper as a very last resort.

[Wildalaska]

I did the Alcan in Novemeber...

1. Install a block heater
2. Get a winch
3. Only drive during the day
4. CB radio

Wild7daystorontotoAnchorageAlaska

[Cosmoline]

AND make sure to have a propane backup heater in case your car goes bye-bye and you need to keep yourself from freezing solid too. There are some very nice, safe ones on the market now.

[Don Galt]

I'm confused about this bridge.... is Cook Inlet a town? I thought it was the big inlet.

IS the bridge over the Knik arm, or the Turnigut arm? I mean, looking at a map, those seem to be the most likely places for bridges from Anchorage... going west or south.

I love rain and wind... wind is actually a feature I'm looking for, cause I want to generate my own power. We have talked about Adak, but Unexploded Ordinance is an issue for her (I don't know why!)

Good point about land looking great in winter but not so great in summer. I went thru Glen Allen once in the summer and it seemed great... actually in all my trips to Alaska (only a couple) I've never seen bad misquitoes, except by paradise lake in Denali National Park.

So, the posts you're sinking into the gravel-- are they going to support your floor, or are they going to support your foundation? I'm trying to figure out if there's a reason people don't build houses on foundations? My dream house, unfortunately, is a bit big to not have a foundation....but maybe that just means I replace the soil under it with a couple feet of gravel before pouring the cement, I'm going to have to talk to an architect.

We may decide to go up next spring instead of this winter. Haven't found a place that makes hitches for my truck, and since its a gasoline engine, I think the diesel block heaters won't work (I'm assuming they pull from the trucks tank.)

Camper has a propane heater already... would bring a back up, yes. When I last drove the Alcan, I took a week, and was going really slow as I had no time table. Realistically, in winter, I think its at least three days to Whitehorse after I get into Canada, but maybe I'm being too pessimistic. It was all paved, except for a part under repair, last I went.

Good point about the CB radio... gonna have to get one of those.

Thanks-

Don

[Cosmoline]

The proposed bridge is over Knick Arm, to link Anchorage with the Knick/Goose Bay area, Wasilla and points beyond including Willow where I am. As the roads are now, you have to cut way out to the NE, then back to the NW in order to swing around and head due north again. It means I have an 80 mile commute each way, even though I'm not all that far from Anchorage as the crow flies. I get all the FM radio stations, for example.

I'm sure you could find places to generate wind power in theory. There are extreme gusts along Turnagain Arm and in Palmer. But I don't know of many who are actually doing it. Plus, there was a freezing wind this spring in the valley that brought a mountain worth of glacial dust down over everything. That's one reason I moved into the relative shelter of the Big Su depression north of Willow.

The posts on the cabin will support the cabin. Six 6x6 pressure treated posts with a few hundred lbs. of concrete around each, resting on packed natural gravel underneath the crud layers. Should resist frost heave. I'm not sure what all they do for larger buildings, but generally they can build whatever you want. There's no permafrost in these parts to worry about--just earthquakes.

Make sure whatever place you get isn't too close to swamp or streams. These may bring the evil biting black flies, which are far worse than mere mosquitoes. The less said about them the better. Thankfully they're restricted to certain very moist areas, typically south of where I am.

[TallPine]

I used to live near Chugiak and worked in Wasilla (don't ask ... it's a long story). It was about 35 miles one way, but I could practically see Wasilla from where I lived about 5-6 miles across the Knik Arm. (you actually could see lights over there at night)

One question I have for Cosmoline and others up there: most of the south side of the Knik Arm shoreline from Anchorage on up past Chugiak is part of Fort Richardson. If they build a bridge, will it go through the Fort, or will it go directly from the port area of Anchorage ????

It's been a long time, almost 25 years.

[Don Galt]

It just occured to me that in January there won't me much daylight to allow only driving during daylight! November would be better.

The girlfriend says "Don't take your girlfriend to alaska only in the summer, cause then she'll leave you in the winter!" I figure if she likes it in winter, then summer will not drive her off...

I'm still trying to figure out frost heaves... but I'll talk to an architect up there before I build anything... sounds like Kenai and other points south of Anchroage are better than north of Fairbanks, or the Fairbanks area in this area.... so good. I'm wanting to build an earthquake proof house, but that has led me down the path of a heavy structure. I don't want to do a log cabin for fear of fire...

Thanks for the advice. We may end up going in the spring to look at things, and getting land next year, but not building the house and relocating until 2005. We'll see. On the other hand, driving up in the next week or so would be nice... seems we could avoid much of the bad winter weather and lack of sunlight.

Thanks again.

[TallPine]

Actually, driving up there in the "spring" might be the best idea - before breakup but after the days start getting longer. As in March.

Then it's not much much different than winter in Colorado.


Remember the old Johnny Horton song: "when it's springtime in Alaska, it's forty below" ?? :)


edit: oh yeah, back when I lived up there, I think there were more folks living in old quonset huts than log cabins

[Balog]

Johnny Horton? Does he do any songs about hearing Who's? :p :D I crack me up

[Kaylee]

much as I hate to do this, 'cause I find the topic interesting to...

anyone care to drag in some firearms content 'ere this baby gets locked? :)


-K

[TallPine]

Ok, what firearm could a person possibly carry in a vehicle on the Alcan Hiway these days?

Considering not having a Canadian hunting license, etc ....

Back when I went up and back, you could carry long guns without any problems.

[rapaz]

People build up on pilings to resist the effects of frost heave and subsidence (sometimes it can be cheaper, too); if the ground does move under your house, building on pilings makes it easier to jack up the low side rather than having the house bend in the middle.

Wind power--you might want to do more checking on this. Wind turbines don't always work good in the cold; solar doesn't work too good when it is cloudy. Depending on where you build, exactly, you might have a tough time generating enough power.

[Don Galt]

Kaylee--

The firearms content is that we're discussing a good place to live with decent laws about firearms, and the practicalities of such. Why lock a thread that's not getting out of hand thats tangential? The people who aren't interested in the topic will likely ignore it.

Tallpine--

Thanks for the advice about spring... schedule works better anyway I think. Though there's still the possibility of next month.

rapaz--

I'm still trying to figure out about this frost heave thing and how you prevent it.

Firearms--

I figure the only way to move firearms to Alaska is via the Marine Highway. Can you take ammo thru canada?

[igor]

Webasto and its kin can take whatever fuel the car runs on to heat the engine. They come with programmable timers and thermostats that can also steer the car's passanger dept. heater fan to circulate the engine block heat inside. A complete installation in a usual car or SUV is around 1000€.

I've got a Skoda TDI whose diesel motor is so economic that it generates very little excess heat to warm up the driver - it takes two thirds of my commute to get above zero in the car if not pre-heated. I hear the newest diesels are starting to have Webastos installed at the importer's because of this, so they're used even when driving!

Now I have to park the car right on the corner of the house where I have a power outlet, where I plug in for the Defa heater. It's timed to switch on an hour before I get on the road and has an extra heat blower in the car too, so I don't have to scrape the ice off the windows when I start. That's the main idea, the enging and innards of the car will be just slightly above zero, more would be wasting power. It's just that the power cord can't be safely extended because of the juice the Defa takes, so parking the car is inconvenient. So the next one will have the Webasto, and I think that would serve you perfectly as well.

Fellow Northerners across the globe, how do you take care of these things anyway? We have just the same climate, don't we?

For firearms content, :p , I thoroughly remove all oil from my Saiga when going shooting now, and just use a little silicone-based stuff on the rails...

[rapaz]

One more thing about building on pilings-- in permafrost areas, the other reason to build on pilings is to avoid melting the permafrost under the house... causing the house to sink.

Basically, you probably want to build more or less like the people around you have built, presuming that what they have done is working. It's usually a good rule of thumb.

And to get some firearms content, I'd say that this is often a good rule for guns, too. If everyone uses a 12 gauge for bear defense, you might not want to get out in front of the curve by counting on a hotted up 22-250.

If you are driving through canada, you probably want to ship your firearms separately, although perhaps one of the canadians on this board knows differently. Whenever I cross into Canada, the only question the canadian border officials ask (besides "how long are you staying") is "do you have any guns in your car?"

[Cosmoline]

There should be some FFL's in Alaska who will take your firearms and hold them for a fee until you get up here. The major stores won't do it, but punch in the state at Gunbroker's directory and some guys like Ted Ireton should pop up who might be able to help.

[TheEgg]

This was before the pipeline, so I am sure things are a lot different now -- but I will toss in a couple of things that I am sure have not changed, especially since most of the posters seem to live in the southern part of the state.

In the Fairbanks area, the winter is LOOOOONG and COOOOOOLD. Temperatures were usually -10 to -30, and a few memorable times dipped to around -65. Also dark! Dead of winter you had a couple hours of light, with the sun just peeping above the horizon. This was my number one THING I DID NOT LIKE ABOUT ALASKA!

Summers are short, but nice temperature wise -- don't remember many times that it got above 80. Seemed like light all night, but the sun did dip below the horizon for a few hours, but it was just "dusk", not full dark. We put heavy dark curtains on all the windows to help us sleep -- the first summer there, I don't think we hardly slept at all! Great for those all night fishing trips.

They used to use spray trucks in the populated areas to spray for bugs, and it worked well -- don't know if they still do this or not. But when you go out in the countryside to fish or hunt, make sure you have industrial strength bug repellant and and head net!

BTW, for current residents, is the Moose Pusher train still in existence? We used to get on in Fairbanks, head south toward Anchorage, and you could be off anywhere you wanted -- then in a couple of days you could wave them down to get back on -- great way to get to "the wilderness" for fishing and hunting.

Alll in all, my three years there was an experience I cherish, but I am not interested in moving back(40 years of Texas summer heat has just now about thawed me out!). I certainly understand why some love it and would not live anywhere else, but make no mistake, if you are thinking about living in the more northerly parts of the state, or outside the urbanized areas, you WILL need to make major compromises -- make sure that the advantages are worth it to YOU!

[Keith]

You know, Alaska is more than just the road system around Anchorage - Fairbanks - Kenai. You MIGHT just want to check out the southeast via ferry, or Kodiak before settling down some place.
The winters are much more moderate (forty above instead of forty below), the hunting/fishing better, and there are far less tourists in the summer!

Keith

[MaterDei]

Much of Alaska has very mild winters! Here in Kodiak, it's not even cold enough to snow most of the winter. Typically, it's 40ish and damp even in January and February. Southeast Alaska is even milder.
Far be it for me to disagree with Keith but the weather will probably be your greatest barrier. I'm not saying that it's too cold for you, just that it is something you should really focus on. The weather forecast for today in 'mild' Kodiak is a high of 49 and a low of 39 and the average low in the winter months is 25. Certainly sounds cold enough for snow to me. Looking on the bright side you would always probably wear at least a light jacket, even in the summer, so CCW concealment would be easy! The average high in its warmest month, August, is 61.

For Alaska it is mild. However, to an Arizonan, you might not agree.

[Balog]

MaterDei: good point. I'm hoping to live in state for a couple years before making any housing decisions. I'm hoping to attend school while working part-time most of the year whilst working a miserable but short and lucrative job such as hand on a crab boat. So, what is the school situation like up there? Universities, community colleges, and trade schools are all of interest.

[Keith]

The weather forecast for today in 'mild' Kodiak is a high of 49 and a low of 39 and the average low in the winter months is 25.

Most people would consider 50 degree fall weather pretty mild and pleasant. And a January low of 25 degrees, means a high of what - perhaps 40 degrees? Too mild to snow, or too mild for snow to stay on the ground anyway. It's a marine climate like England or Ireland. It's usually sloppy in the winter, but your pipes don't freeze and you don't have to plug your car in.

And it's 19 degrees right now in Fairbanks, in October...

In the summer, the interior can be 85 to 95 degrees, while Kodiak will be in the 60's... A better summer, but they have those mosquitoes and black flies while we don't.

There is more than one Alaska. Most people only see the one on the Anchorage/Fairbanks road system. There is another Alaska down in the southeast, another in Kodiak/Afognak. another out in the Aleutians, another in Western Alaska, etc, etc. Different climates, different game animals, different scenery, different moods. You should check it out before making any decisions about where you will spend the rest of your life.

Keith

[Don Galt]

Here's the Alaska I've seen... I drove from Seattle up the alcan to Fairbanks. Then I kept going north till I got to prudhoe bay. Course this was summer. Then I went south to Anchorage (And later all the way to Homer, so I've missed the Aleutians experience)... east thru Glen Allen to Valdez. Then on the Ferry to Juneau where I spent a week.

I know SE Alaska is milder, but the real estate is much more expensive. We were initially considering living in the Bush-- but I think going from Urban Seattle to the bush of alaska would be asking for trouble. So, we're limiting ourselves to land near a road... or maybe some land adjacent to the railroad (Though I'd prefer road.)

Kenai seems like a good compromise. Adak seems interesting as well (Did I mention the unexploded ordinance warnings turning off my better half? But anywhere with lots of wind gets my vote.) Kodiak, or any place south of Homer that does have Marine Highway access would probably work for us.

We're looking for mild (by alaska standards) winters, an large tracts of land near roads with a moderate price (say 40-80 acres at $500-$1000/ac). The tracts of land near Kodiak all seem small, and we haven't looked at the aleutians that much, though tere are some that are boat accessable that would fit. Still leaning towards road access.

I know most of Alaska is without roads. I just don't want to bite off more than we can chew all at once. I'm ready for snow (i'm looking forward to snow) I'm ready for cold winters and cold summers. I'm ready for dark. I need to let her see this stuff though, so we know for sure she's ready for it.

I'll check with architects. I think I can build the house I want and avoid the frost issue by having a gap where air circulates under the house. It just seems the cinderblocks are the material that we can work with building ourselves, without the fire danger of wood. (Not that wood is unwise to build with, just paranoid, or something.)

So, whats the mosquito season like in Homer or Anchor point? Is it a month of bad mosquitos or is it longer?

When I was in Alaska, I saw almost no mosquitos. I've been left with the impression that it really isnt' that bad there. (Have camped in the swamps of Louisiana and been covered with bites at a density of about 6 per square inch of skin! Not that that was very enjoyable!) But I'm afraid I just missed the season for them.

I think we can handle 4-6 weeks of really bad mosquitos... but is it the whole summer in some areas?

Thanks for all the feedback. I was previously planning to sail around on my boat... so other than weather, alaska is actually less remote and less of a compromised lifestyle. If you can got to fred meyer with 6 hours of driving, thats effing convenience! :cool:

[Don Galt]

BTW- Balog, sorry if I hijacked your thread! I just hope some of the questions I'm asking are useful to you also.

So, all the places that ship ammo say "No shipping to Alaska". I'd have expected them to just charge more for it. Now that I think about it, I remember someone telling me that the truckers couldn't carry it thru Canada... and that it doesn't go by plane.

So, is ammo availible there, say in the walmart? Are prices that much higher than the lower 48? Should I start an ammo importation business? :-)

[Cosmoline]

You should look into the Mat-Su as well as the Kenai. Both have large, fairly inexpensive tracts. Though not that many are on the main road system. SE, in addition to being too wet, is way too liberal. It's barely even part of Alaska in any real sense.

Read "The Thousand Mile War" re. the Aleutians. I've never been out to them personally, but then again I've never heard anyone say anything very good about them. Treeless, cold, windy and WET. Pretty much 24/7/365 of bad weather.

Ammo is around, but you're right it's tougher to get it shipped up. It's typically bought in bulk and brought up on the barges. You can find most all kinds of ammo, at least in Anchorage. Ammo King has a bunch of stuff. Standard cartridges are usually easy to find in more outlying areas.

[Keith]

The bad mosquito areas are north of the coastal ranges in the interior. Some places are extremely bad, and others not so bad depending on whether you're in a hilly area or down in the flats where you have lots of swampy land. The worst I've ever seen is around Glenallen in August. It was bad - no, it was very, very bad! I don't know how long that lasts - if it's all summer or just sporadic invasions.

One area that you might want to look at is around Cordova - Valdez - McCarthy. You have the road link to Anchorage/ Fairbanks, but you're still well off the beaten track.

I would not recommend the Kenai! There's a LOT of tourism down there. The fishing streams are elbow to elbow, the hunting is pathetic - it's the most crowded place in Alaska. I hate to even drive through there because if you don't time it right, you get in traffic jams from all the daytrippers coming down or returning to Anchorage.

Keith

[Kaylee]

dang I hate to do this.
sorry guys, OT.

(still lookin to get up and visit your way one of these days though. :p )


-K