[mrming]

Picked up a copy of SGN, and SOG had a listing for a russian izhmash ak-47. As I am in the market for such, was curious if anyone had handled one. Its a bit more than the ever increasing SAR1's in price, but the usual logic applies. (If it doesn't have trigger slap, canted gas blocks, shot out barrels and CAI electropenciled on it, it could be worth the extra $80 or so)

[jrhead75]

The only Izhmash made AK type actions that I know of that make it here are either the Saigas or the Veprs (maybe both...don't remember). Both need a bit of work if you're looking for the AKM or AK-74 configuration.

I could be wrong, if you find one let me know. The only izzy I've got is a Mosin 91/30 ;)

[MAKOwner]

It was probably an ad for Hesse/Vulcan converted Saigas, I've seen them advertised as such before. Hesse is usually to be avoided at all costs but they don't have a whole lot to do to convert a Saiga to pistol-grip and hicap setup, so there isn't a whole lot they could mess up. Did it have AK style handguards in the ad, or the Saiga one piece no-upper handguard thing?

[gun-fucious]

http://vulcanarms.com/V47Rifles.htm

http://www.perfectunion.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4413

[jrhead75]

Wow! Good gouge gun-fucious, that V47 is a new one to me, but looks outstanding! (Still built from a Saiga, though...so I get some technical points :p )

Now I want one!!!

[MAKOwner]

I don't know, I'd be careful with these. With the standard AK handguard/gasblock setup that means Hesse/Vulcan has pressed the front sight and gas block off, put on a new handguard retainer (and drilled a slot for it to lock down on I believe), and pressed everything back on... Not rocket science but given their track record I'd triple check everything to make sure they didn't hose it up... That said their model with the top-cover mounted sight and front sight/gasblock combo looks interesting. Wonder if they bothered to rig something up to stabilize the top cover like the Krebs setup?

[mrming]

Don't think its a converted saiga. Its on page 73 from volume 57 issue 29 of SGN. Pretty specific it was manufactored in Russia and approved under 922R for import.

Looks a little off key too. If the picture is to be believed, its synthetic stock, pistol gripped and supports standard 7.62x39 hi-caps natively. Foregrip appears to NOT cover the top of the gas tube (there's something that'll need replacing). Sling mounts are already on stock, and appears to have a muzzle break installed. SOG is listing it as AK-RI762 but i'm unable to find it on their website (imagine that).

If it really is a Hesse, I know its trash. Already know that much from reputation on fal recievers.

[Nightcrawler]

Yes, Saigas are manufactured at the Izhmash plant in Russia. Hesse/Vulcan/whoever then does the conversion to make them legal to import, much how Century adds US parts to the Romanian AKs.

My friend's Hesse-Saiga Conversion gives him 3-round bursts. Probably want to replace the trigger group with a Red Star Arms.

The reason the distributors/sellers market these rifles as "Russian made" and "Izhmash" is because people often WON'T BUY Hesse/Vulcan weapons, due to a very poor reputation.

[mrming]

Bah, Humbug I tell you!

So I'm pretty much stuck either w/ a saiga, and trying to fashion a feeding ramp etc

or a SAR-1, replace the FCG, probably the stock (or at least refinish) and its still hit or miss on if CAI screwed up the block/gas tube?

[Nightcrawler]

Nu-uh. There are plenty of other AK makers out there. But you're going to pay more than you will for an SAR.

On the other hand, you get a nicer gun.

Global Trades (http://www.globaltrades.com)
Arsenal, INC (http://www.arsenalinc.com)
Robinson Armament (http://www.robarm.com)
Krebs Custom (http://www.krebscustom.com)
AK USA (http://www.ak-103.com)

[MAKOwner]

You just described the Saiga forend to a T... As a matter of fact I believe it was SOG who advertised these Hesse converts as "Russian Izhmash AK47s" a year or so ago... Technically it's not false advertising...

Check out the forums at www.ak-47.net There are numerous posts about converting Saigas, do some searches. The feedramp deal seems pretty simple, several people just used a cut up section of pipe, it doesn't have to be precise... I believe www.k-varcorp.com sells actual feed ramps if you want to do it "correctly".

[Forseti]

The Saigas are very nice, and relatively easy to modify to a near "standard" AK configuration if you use a dremel. I say "near" standard if you leave the front handguard/sight arrangement alone. I added a standard US extra length stock, US pistol grip, and moved the trigger group forward using replacement trigger group US parts. Remarkably easy. Watch the US parts count, of which no more than 10 can be "foreign" as documented by the BATF.

You will end up with a far better setup than the SAR's, most of which I've handled appear crude by comparison. Plus, overall cost of the Saiga that I tweaked was less than that of the SAR's, including buying a new stock, pistol grip, and trigger mechanism.

[c_yeager]

A lot of the Hesse Saiga conversions (hatchet jobs) dont bother with even changing the front stock on the Saiga rifle. Look close to see if its the original one-piece job or not. This means more work for you since youll have to change it out yourself for the original "ak look". On the upside the less work Hesse (vulcan is the their new name BTW) does the less chance of them screwing it up. On the other hand there are a lot of good makers out their building AKs from kits and converting saigas Nightcrawler lister what are probably the best of the bunch.

On a side note because of the trade restrictions with russia the ONLY ak varients allowed for import are the Saigas and VEPRs. They are listed specifically BY NAME. Nothing else is allowed in. And i believe the VEPRs are actually made at Molot anyways. So, its a pretty safe bet that your looking at a Saiga conversion.

[STONER]

I saw the same ad. It said it was a milled receiver. Do not know if that helps identify the variant.

[goon]

If you want to get a good one, check out AK-USA.
They make several variants.
I don't have any firsthand experience, but their reputation is excellent.
But they are kind of expensive.

[AK103K]

I have one of the Krebs Saiga/Izhmash AK103K conversions. It has a great trigger(most AK's have decent triggers, even the ones with trigger slap), is the most accurate of the 4 AK's I have, and will shoot 2-3" at 100 yards with the right ammo and if I do my part, even with the 14" barrel. The welded on AK74 type brake makes it legal length and works very well. You can easily tell the difference between guns that have one and those that dont. If your looking for one of these type of rifles and dont mind spending some more money, Krebs does a good job, and is worth the extra money.

[Kestrel]

Can anyone compare the Saiga AKs from Krebs to the ones from AK-USA? I've heard Krebs does good work, but I've also heard that about Chris at AK-USA.

Thanks,
Steve

[igor]

Milled receiver means it's not a Saiga (http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/weapon.shtml) but most probably a Vepr. And yes, those aren't made at Izhmash (which of course doesn't diminish their value a bit). Very solid.

Also, if it accepts standard AK mags, it's not a Saiga at least in its original configuration. These have proprietary magazines.

The idea of an Izhmash AK-47 is BS as such as the whole Saiga series are variants of the AK-1XX series (101-108) that are based on the AK-74 and 74M versions. Not 47.

The feed ramp thing can also be made by welding some material in the receiver and dremeling that to form the ramp. My M3EXP01 will go to the 'smith next week for the job, including honing the mag catch to accept Valmet mags + threading & installing a muzzle brake. I'll be posting photos then...

[Skibane]

VEPRs don't have a milled receiver, either (although the stamped metal is 50 percent thicker than the "standard" AKM receiver used on most other AK-47's, due to the VEPR's RPK heritage).

Probably the vast majority of milled AKs currently on the market are either SAM-7s (a very high-quality, American-made model manufactured by Arsenal America (http://www.arsenalinc.com)) or Bulgarian SLRs (also nicely made, available both in as-imported thumhole-stock and converted-after-imported pistol-grip versions).

[MAKOwner]

There aren't any russian milled receivers coming in in any form to be built up on unless I'm greatly mistaken. If they really were milled they weren't "Izhmash AK47s", I'm kinda figuring the poster who made the milled comment above was mistaken or confused two ads...

[igor]

Skibane's right, I had a brainfart. :banghead:

[c_yeager]

Didnt the russians stop using milled receivers in the 60's?

[STONER]

RE: SGN Volume 57, Issue 30, PG 112, SOG AD:
"Russian IZHMASH AK-47 7.62x39" "Manufactured in Russia & approved under sec. 922R. These are new condition rifles with 16" barrel and muzzle break, milled receivers and accept hi-cap magazines. Black synthetic furniture with pistol grip. 1-10 rd & 1-30 rd magazine. $399.95 ea"
The ad did in fact say "milled" receivers. I still do not know what this is, but hope someone can shed some light.