[flying_gage]

For those of you in states where concealed carry is allowed.

As a LEO or Dispatcher, is it common practice for "tagging" a person's name or D.L. when it is determined that the individual holds a concealed carry permit.
For instance, as a paramedic in my city I have the ability to "tag" an address where other than normal circumstances may be present, i.e. a diabetic who fights when his sugar gets low, an obese person who will require additional lifting assistance, gang related issues etc....

After being tagged by myself this information is then included in further dispatch tickets and the information is acted upon automatically within the framework I have provided..

I ask this because if an individual provides their permit or acknowledges the presence of a weapon, agencies could then "tag" the individual.

Just curious? Noticed a person on another forum who stated he provided it once during a traffic stop and then when stopped again he was told to put it away (sic).

[theken206]

what about tagging for other things for that matter?

[flying_gage]

I was keeping it to the firearms question. I can tell you from the dispatch tickets that I have read all sorts of other stuff can be included.

Being from Illinois, I can only speculate as to what may be provided in areas with CCW. Were Illinois to have CCW, I can say with relative certainty that my community would "tag" those individuals who may be in the legal possession of a weapon on their person. I have been informed many times that I am entering a house that has weapons inside, (outside the reason for the request for our services). It has always kind of irritated me as it seems to inherently convey danger. For good reason I would rather be notified as to the presence of dogs and whether they are restrained or not... Dogs absolutely sense stress and it triggers protective instincts that can make our jobs hard.

[pbearperry]

Most cops going to an address of a disturbance or possible suicide call would love to know if firearms are known to be on that location.Just because a person has never been convicted of a crime,it is not entirely impossible for that person to have a meltdown down the road.Some police dispatch software have the ability to add lawful gun ownership,some don't.
I have been an honest person and a fairly sane one for almost 62 years,but one never knows what can happen.Having this info can sometimes help an officer to survive or better prepare for that call.

[Hungry Seagull]

My Leos know we are a armed house. Shoud the call ever goes to them to come help us... they know ahead of time what to spect.

Now if a Para has to secure my weapon, I expect it back when it's over. See another thread on this forum about it.

[flying_gage]

pbearberry that is true.

I am all for the protection of an officers life. Sometimes I think it might predispose the officers though and make them complacent at some level? Is it better not to know and just assume that everyone has a weapon, (which I am sure they as we do)?

Please understand that I am not assuming anything here and am truely curious. I am a firefighter/paramedic and that is all.

It is interesting that software is available out there for this.

[flying_gage]

Now if a Para has to secure my weapon, I expect it back when it's over. See another thread on this forum about it.

As in paramedic? Makes me chuckle as alot of my coworkers would be afraid to even touch a gun.:) When I told my co-workers that I was building a range on my property, they looked at me as though I had two heads. Different strokes I guess.

[Superlite27]

As your neighbor right across the river here in Missouri, I have no problem with "tagging". After all, the sheriff is the one who issued me my CCW, I certainly hope they have that information on file. If they didn't, it would appear they have a very shoddy record keeping system. When it comes time to renew my permit, it will come in handy, as I won't have to go through the entire process once again. As I am a law abiding citizen, there's no reason why they shouldn't have a constant reminder of that fact.

Where I draw the line is if this information is released to the public. I've seen several posts where states, counties, and local government agancies in other states have PUBLISHED this information. This is where I feel the government has trampled roughshod all over gun owner's rights to privacy.

[Jeff White]

It depends on what software the agency uses. We could put officer safety information in the software they were using when I was working. In Illinois you can always check to see if the person has a FOID card before you go to the home for a domestic call.

I tagged an address once. We were receiving frequent domestic calls and there were usually weapons scattered through the residence in plain sight. So it was always a good idea to get the people out of the house if possible before dealing with the domestic.

Also several states that have CCW already tag it to drivers license information. I know for a fact that Tennessee sends CCW information with the drivers license info they send to out of state agencies. I've seen it on the screen on the MDC in my squad when I ran a TN driver.

[Rezin]

I dunno if it is a coincidence or not, but since receiving my LTCF years ago, I have had a second police car show up the 2 times I have been pulled over. The first cop waited for the second before coming to my car...

Dunno if had anything to do with the LTCF or not.

[flying_gage]

Sounds as though it was related.

I never knew that about the FOID information if requested. Makes sense as they utilize the same Sec. of State pic.

[Jeff White]

I never knew that about the FOID information if requested. Makes sense as they utilize the same Sec. of State pic.

There is a block to check on the IWIN software used statewide when you run someone from your MDC and if you check it you will get FOID information along with DL information.

[daorhgih]

I've been brought from the brink 5 times by para-medics who know my heart condition. Same for diabetic shock and unconsciousness. Yes, I own an operational "I fell and can't get up" system. I also have made know my status as an armed citizen to my LEO friends, and made most first responders aware of the reloading equipment that is over in my garage. I feel that all of this info is only what I'd want to have known if I were a responder. "But you can't trust just ANYBODY!" Well, yes, but the Ch.ofPol. is my Sunday school teacher, and the Chaplain in the f.d. stands next to me in the choir. I do trust a few people. The rest I verify, if I'm conscious.

[Mags]

If you live on a Military base in goverment family housing you have to register your guns with the LE desk so they will know what you have when responding to a call at your house.

[Hungry Seagull]

Looks like I have some thinking to do and maybe some Professionsals to visit and ask questions.

[DataMonkey]

In Texas, when you get your CHL (Concealed Handgun License), all vehicles on which a CHL holder is registered get tagged. If a LEO runs plates, even if my wife is driving, it will show I'm a registered owner and a CHL holder. Additionally, on alarm permit applications you have to inform the PD if firearms, dogs, etc are present on the premises.

I've run my own license plates and have witnessed the information gets returned to LEOs. I'm not aware of paramedics getting any information.

[WVMountainBoy]

I'm a dispatcher, the way it works here with our current systems is that the individual is not tagged by name or vehicle, but it is common practice especially with calls of a violent nature to flag an residential address if there are weapons involved.

Example: Domestic at 123 Yourstreet, caller provides that there are guns in the house. Police respond and use just caution knowing there are weapons on scene.

Now, that flag is going to be permenantly attached to 123 Yourstreet and any future calls to that address will also result in the officers/EMS/Firemen being warned that there are weapons in that location.

Only calls of a violent nature are apt to get the dispatcher to ask if there are weapons involved, not very likely for a medical call.

...and after thinking about it I could tag a vehicle if I wanted to, its not in practice here but I could attach a flag to a registration. My systems don't have an allowance to do it by name or DL number though.

[flying_gage]

It would seem as though I have my answer. Thanks guys!

If we ever get CCW, I guess I am ambivalent as to whether I would want to know? For my job, it would make little difference other than initial scene stabilization. I definitely think that for LEO's it would be a huge benefit as to their jobs.

[rogertc1]

I read that the ATF has a google map of every gun buyer in the USA.

[pharmer]

In Florida, the CHL is on the info strip on the back of your DL. I'm sure it's also in the computer with the associated tag #. You want privacy? Not in this lifetime. Joe

[Rockwell1]

Am I the only one that thinks that the police building ,in essence, a gun owner database is not a good idea?

[flying_gage]

I would agree that it can cut both ways. I may be niave in my thoughts that by being proactive with my elected officials, that it won't cut the wrong way. I don't have the time or energy to constantly worry about government intrusion, ya know?

[MrCleanOK]

In Oklahoma, your CHL and DL are matched in the computer system. Last time I had an officer check my license, the dispatcher came back with something to the effect of:

Dispatch: "All clean. Additional."
Officer: "Go ahead."
Dispatch: "Handgun license."
Officer: "10-4"

Of course, I had already informed the officer that I was licensed and carrying, in compliance with Oklahoma law.

I don't know if that information is tagged to my license plate number. When the incident above occured, I was on a bicycle.

[indoorsoccerfrea]

^^ well that begs the question...why were you getting pulled over on a bike? :uhoh:

[ants]

Tagging a residential address has value if no one ever moves.
When the occupants move, it becomes misleading information.

Is there a procedure to go through the city or county and update tags, or is it only common practice to apply a tag, not update it?

[fd62]

In Ohio the CCW info is tagged to your drivers license and any vehicle registration in the permit holders name. I believe even my car trailer has the CCW "tag" on it. Shortly after getting my CCW my father borrowed my truck, I made sure to tell him to keep his hands on the wheel if pulled over, as the LEO isn't aware of who is driving until they come to the window.

[Carne Frio]

When LEO make traffic stop in Alaska, they have access to your dmv records. If you have concealed weapons permit, that also comes up on the computer. You are required to inform the LEO, when he first makes verbal contact with you, even though he already knows. All that assuming that you are driving your own vehicle.

[Hungry Seagull]

In Arkansas your driver's license number is tied to your CCW. It will come up on the Police Cruiser's computer. And we go from there. No worries.

[alohachris]

I have a friend in Utah who got stopped by the police while driving. He was issued a ticket for expired saftey sticker. He paid the ticket, got his car inspected and put on a new saftey sticker. Three months later he gets stopped at a DUI check point (randomly selected - had not been drinking). He gives up his license/reg/insurance, all is in order when the cop asks him "Have you been pulled over by the police recently?". My friend answers "Well, I did get a ticket a few months ago.". The cop then says "Your lucky you didn't lie to me because it's right here in the computer."

I find this disturbing because 1) This was in a totally different part of the state different department, different jurisdiction. 2)This means that every car and individual being stopped is now being recorded in a central database. 3)Every police contact for any reason will now later be held against you for any reason.

Welcome to "Total Information Awareness". I don't remember ever consenting to this level of constant surveillance...

[Hungry Seagull]

In trucking, you pass one scale house.. say... Knoxville TN on I 40. You have already been scanned for Xray, gamma, nuclear bombs, bio weapons, your front license plate tags have been captured and other information has been gathered off your rig prior to the green/red light point before the platform.

Should you hit another scalehouse within certain time/distance limits you could be pulled in to have your hours of service inspected.

I have been in various scalehouses and most of them have a laptop or a computer tied into a sort of internet with all other police agencies and it's not that hard to pass info quickly. I forget the exact network they used but it's all the same.

Personally I dont care as long as the traffic stop for me or the wife proceeds normally. We are generally adequate savings to pay fines the same day or post bond the same day. It's all the same to us.

[Jeff White]

Welcome to "Total Information Awareness". I don't remember ever consenting to this level of constant surveillance...

Stop with the self righteous hysteria already. Every contact one has with the police has been recorded since the start of organized police departments. The records used to be on paper, but they always have been there.

Only certain information is available statewide. Here in Illinois you automatically get convictions for traffic offenses within the last 12 months every time you run someone's DL. In some areas there are county or regional databases linked that can give you more localized information, such as if the driver was issued a warning for an offense.

Comprehensive record keeping has been part of police work from the very beginning. If you don't wish to be under constant surveillance :rolleyes: then have no contact with the police at all.

[stana]

ALOHACHRIS Utah dose have saftey inspections, but dose not issue "stickers" and hasn't for years. DUI check points are almost a thing of the past in my part of Utah, though once were common. I don't know any LEO's who care if anyone recently got a ticked for a saftey inspection. They / I care about warrants. Many of which are for failure to appear on a citation after signing "promise to appear".

The presents of alcohol or guns are a big concern to officers dispatched to a family fight. That questions is always asked the person reporting the fight, by the dispatcher. Most homes around here have guns, lots, its part of our life style.

Many, if not most, instructors for Utah concealed firearms permits are LEOs. I have not heard any concerns, by LEOs about legal concealed carry. WE (those in my circle) APPROVE.

I know less about the feelings of Big city LEOs

Country cop

[Hungry Seagull]

City LEO's over time built up a mental list of who are good and who are bad. A few times ive been told to stand over here out of the way while they search a subject of interest.

Most educational; especially if city friends are not the sort to be law abiding.

[Jorg]

ALOHACHRIS Utah dose have saftey inspections, but dose not issue "stickers" and hasn't for years.
I think he probably meant the registration sticker, which you can't get unless you pass safety. It seems that the reason many folks don't renew their registration is being unable to pass the safety inspection, or at least not getting around to doing it. Just my guess.

[flying_gage]

I had no intention of this going this direction. Maybe I was being a bit niave, but lets not forget that "our" information is already out there and has been for a long time. In fact I am amazed at the level of scrutiny that we don't experience.

For our society to turn into a "big brother" state, our government would have to expand exponentially for them to keep track and manipulate us all. With our current financial situation, I cannot see that happening any time soon.

In addition, I would offer that there are still way too many members of our government out there who believe in the fundamentals of our constitution for anything like an Orwellian "1984" to happen, (plus members of boards such as this that would not allow such a thing).

I think for our own health, we need to believe in our own model of government. Even though relatively young, our system of government has proven a workable and just system; a true testimony to the framers of our constitution. If we choose not to believe in our system, then I think paranoia is a very real possibility.

Just my .02

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I would also, even maybe rather, like to know if the residence has dogs on property more than guns.

[TravisB]

I think a "household without guns" tag would be easier to implement in Montana. Followed by, "no, seriously" so the officers wouldn't mistake it for a joke. I'm sure the LEOs would be very, very wary as they approached such a house. Who are these weird people?

CCW apps are public record here, I believe (a newspaper recently did a story about which state legislators were packing), so it seems unlikely that the police wouldn't have access to that database. I can't see how it would harm one's interaction with a police officer, though. It might even place you more solidly in the category "law-abiding," in fact. After all, you went through a whole process to make sure you were legally carrying.

I can't say I know what preconceived notions, if any, cops already have about CCW permit holders, though.

[Baneblade]

My agency can add information to any person's house or their personal information. However, I have never seen a "tag" for a CCW.

If we run a more in depth check on your license it will bring up the CCW status, but a standard check (the one we use 99% of the time) does not.

I would like to know if there are firearms at the house I am going to. On the other hand, I try to assume there is always a firearm anyway.

Remember, for every one LEO that wants to take away your guns, there are 10 that will fight to let you keep them.

[TehK1w1]

^^ well that begs the question...why were you getting pulled over on a bike?
I know several cyclists who have been pulled over and basically harrassed while riding their bikes. Some officers seem to think that bikes don't belong on the road, even though it's perfectly legal. That's nothing to what we get from everyday drivers though.

[DanielW]

As a LEO you should always treat a traffic stop or a house call as if the people are armed. If you don't you might get caught off guard and end up in a bad situation.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I know several cyclists who have been pulled over and basically harrassed while riding their bikes. Some officers seem to think that bikes don't belong on the road, even though it's perfectly legal. That's nothing to what we get from everyday drivers though.

Or it could be that they were breaking the law. Contrary to what many cyclists think, part of "we get to ride on the road" is that they are required by law to obey all of the same traffic laws as car drivers. Many cyclists don't particularly care about this fact, and I applaud any LEO who takes them to task for it.

[flrfh213]

my truck is in my wifes name not mine, she does not have a cfl and i do, so that defeats the tagging system there. in my area county LEO are unable to find out about a cfl unless I inform them and that choice is mine, not required by law. cite leo see it on their tablets in car data so it is kinda a toss up if registered owner has cfl or not...

[evan price]

In Ohio when you have a CCW license your information is automatically flagged in the LEADS database. When a check is run on a license plate registered to a CCW holder (or a check is run on ID) the LEO's data terminal will give the three-ding alert tone and red bar of text across the screen the same as for a felony warrant- the text states that a gun is present and a CCW is issued.

So yes, tagging is routinely done.

[1911 guy]

Ohio automatically inputs it to LEADS. Comes up on the cruiser computer when they run your license. Don't know about tagging it to a residence.

[coloradokevin]

For the most part I would answer this question with a "No".

We do have the ability to add CAD notes to addresses ("cautions" for certain issues), but these things typically include mental health factors and things of that nature. For example, one address in my district always flags due to their hostility towards officers. The dispatcher usually reads it as: "the residents at this address have a history of fighting with the police, and call notes say to dispatch no less than 3 units for all calls". We also might have call notes on an address for mental health issues where we've had issues in the past (we have one old lady who calls us a few times each week to say that her home is being invaded).

Our dispatch system also allows our dispatchers to see previous calls to that address. So, as they dispatch a call of, say, a family disturbance the dispatcher might also say: "Premise history shows that we were out here in December on a call of a shooting". Our dispatchers will also relay information to us if a complainant has stated that they are currently armed. For instance, we may be dispatched to a burglary in progress, and the dispatcher may tell us: "be aware that the complainant says that she is armed with a revolver, and has locked herself in an upstairs bedroom".

I should also mention that here in Colorado your CCW permit will show up if I conduct a clearance on your name/driver's license.


Anyway, other than those types of examples, we really don't save any information concerning the presence of guns in a given household. To be honest, you pretty much have to be crazy, or simply trying to piss off the police, before you get your address flagged in my ghetto! FWIW, I work for a large city department, and my city isn't known for being the most pro-gun (granted, an "anti-gun" city in Colorado is far more pro-gun than a "pro-gun" city in NY or CA).

[rscalzo]

It depends on the software the jurisdiction uses for their CAD program. Our could put a "tag" on an address. As one address in our case could have hundred of residents, it is of no use. Tagging it to a name is not possible.

As far as tagging a dl, that is not possible by a municipality. The state Dav could possibly do something along those lines but it is not universal. I know NJ does not.

As far as a database for ownership, (NJ reference) the town has files of the FUD and handgun purchase permits. Ours were in a separate filing system with a reference by Applicant Number and name. We never established a actual database of applicants. Nor was there an interest in doing so. I'm sure on the state level there was such a database.

Tagging a residential address has value if no one ever moves.
When the occupants move, it becomes misleading information.

Exactly why we never did it. Updating takes a tremendous amount of staff time. The only database we maintained on a municipal level was emergency medical requirements for use during storms or extended power outages.

[Wolfebyte]

In Texas, when you get your CHL (Concealed Handgun License), all vehicles on which a CHL holder is registered get tagged. If a LEO runs plates, even if my wife is driving, it will show I'm a registered owner and a CHL holder. Additionally, on alarm permit applications you have to inform the PD if firearms, dogs, etc are present on the premises.

not entirely true.

Texas adds your CHL/CCW information to the TCIC Wanted returns QW. (Texas Crime Information Center - Query Wanted), not to your Driver's License or Vehicle information. So if an officer runs your Texas Driver's license only, it will not show any CHL/CCW information on you. However, if the dispatcher runs a package, Driver's License, and Wanted query, the CHL will show up on the QW return.

if your vehicle is coming back "tagged" it's done by someone inhouse, and not by the state.

[chuckusaret]

I don't believe I like the idea of the cops tagging a house with weapons information. I believe tagging is a invasion of privacy and legal action could be taken. I am sure my town would not allow the police dept or the fire dept. to do it. People move and it could cause major problems for the new buyer/renter. My Florida drivers license is not tagged with my CCW permit nor is my name. I would be the first to bring legal action against any organization that releases any of my private/personal information with out my permission.

[wally]

I'd consider it very foolish to not assume guns are present at where the police get called to. I'd never count on some computer database to be 100% accurate.

--wally.

[coloradokevin]

I'd consider it very foolish to not assume guns are present at where the police get called to. I'd never count on some computer database to be 100% accurate.

No one ever relies on these systems to protect us on the street, nor do we assume that the information is 100% accurate. Still, we do gain some useful information out of call notes.

Just last night I went to a house where a crazy suicidal teenager tried to go for a large knife when we contacted her. We always go into these situations knowing that anything is possible, and sometimes things do get hinky. But, it sure never hurts to be told by our dispatcher that there is a history of a violent suicidal individual in the residence.

Now, mind you, I'm not talking about cataloging your average gun owner in the CAD system, I'm just saying that the information provided by these call notes is appreciated and useful to responding officers, even though we already expect that anything can/will happen!

[flying_gage]

I am sure my town would not allow the police dept or the fire dept. .

You might be surprised. I know at the fire dept, we don't share the information. If we start sharing information with "Joe Public" that is sensitive, we will find ourselves in a world of hurt without representation and minus our jobs.

Police/Fire are pretty cognizant of privacy. That is why ten codes are/were used.

[dondulah]

In Michigan, I saw the fact I have a CCW show up on the computer monitor on the inside of the Police Vehicle after an accident.

[jbkebert]

Here in Kansas your drivers license is your carry permit. It is printed right on top of it Concealed Carry Permit holder. It is tagged to anything your DL is used for.

[ilbob]

an obese person who will require additional lifting assistance
Damn, I'm on another government list.

[rscalzo]

It never was a secret that driver histories are available through state dmv systems. Unless it changed, inter-state dl history recorded are limited depending on the state and some are not available instantly. however the fact that you were stopped for some reason is not available to every agency on the whole. It was our policy to record every stop's reg into the system and all stops radio traffic is recorded and that is maintained. the the info is not shared unless a request is made by another agency.

The big if is that the state can and does record every request made into the system and that is maintained at that level. They use the data for overseeing the proper use of the system. During an investigation, a off-line search request can be made. But that data on the patrol vehicle's laptop. Doubt it.

[flying_gage]

an obese person who will require additional lifting assistance

Don't feel bad, per the outdated BMI, I am too.... 5'11 and 185 seems to be fat nowadays. :)