[yayarx7]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,99939,00.html

hmmm.

[Dave R]

I sure hope they're right. I would be very happy if the Assault Weapons Ban quietly sunsetted.

Be interesting so see whether the issue comes up in the Democratic Debate in late Oct.

[0007]

Only until after the elections then it will be business as usual i.e., "those eeevil guns have to go(except for theirs or those that belong to their Pretorian Guards, of course)".

[Standing Wolf]

Some representatives of the Democratic (sic) party are shrewd enough to keep their mouths shut for awhile.

[Detritus]

all the Anti-gun folk are keeping quiet now so as to let the current ban sunset, THEN after the election is al over and they're "secure in their offices" they'll begin the puch for an EVEN MORE strict ban/control legislation, that does NOT sunset!!

the only hope i can see is if somehow the current ban is renewed/left in place (onerous as it is), b/c it is better than whatever piece of garbage is used to replace it. and trust me if it sunsets a major effort WILL be put forth to replace it!! and unfortunately the "silent majority" amoung gun owners, do NOT yet see the risk to themselves, and THEIR guns in "assualt weapon" bans and "gun-control acts" (semantics have power, if they'd named it "a ban on guns that we think only WE the elite should have" more would get the message but alas they're SMART, as well as opposed to the 2A rights)

so no i don't see the Anti's "learning it won't work", or that "america won't stand for it" i see a post-election ambush in the making!

[RKCheung]

FOXNews - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,99939,00.html

Analysts: Gun Control a Non-Issue in 2004

Tuesday, October 14, 2003
By Kelley Beaucar Vlahos

WASHINGTON — Though a spate of gun violence has torn through schools and offices of late, hardly a word has been spoken on the campaign trail, angry moms are not marching and few lawmakers are waving their fists, leaving some to conclude that gun control is no longer a vital political issue.

Gun control advocates blame a lack of media interest and an aggressive pro-gun lobby on the inattention to gun violence.

“The modus operandi of the gun lobby is to keep the discussion down,” said Eric Howard, spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Handgun Violence.

But supporters of gun rights say pro-gun control Democrats have learned the hard way that a majority of Americans think current laws are strict enough.

“The Democrats have decided that the stove is still hot and they don’t want to get burned again,” said Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America. “Whatever the rhetoric had been it hasn’t been matched with what happened at the polling booth.”

Despite more than a half-dozen shootings between Sept. 25 and Oct. 6 in or around schools across the country -- a record that should have sent the media in a tailspin, say critics -- press accounts have not been used to resurrect the flagging issue of gun control.

And though Democrats have engaged in three nationally televised primary debates so far, little or no discussion has been made of where the candidates stand on the issue.

If anything, the Democratic debate in Baltimore, Md., on Sept. 9 featured a brief tussle over former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean’s support of states’ rights on the issue. He has been a long defender of hunters in his home state.

“I would like to see the candidates talk about it more,” said Howard, who added that he is hopeful that the candidates will be forced to talk about it when they meet in Detroit on Oct. 26 for the second Congressional Black Caucus Institute-sponsored debate. That debate will air live on Fox News Channel.

Political experts say that tough gun control stances have done little to help out candidates in the last four years, including Vice President Al Gore, who lost to George W. Bush in the 2000 election. Groups like the National Rifle Association have also been quite successful in turning out voters to the polls.

“I think there is a general feeling among many folks that this was a loser for Democrats in 2000, that it put up an impenetrable electoral wall around the South that Al Gore couldn’t penetrate,” said one source close to one of the Democratic primary campaigns.

“Most of the top-tier Democrats, with the exception of Howard Dean, are in the same place on gun control, but none of them are going to make it a main issue,” he added.

David Kopel, a gun rights advocate and fellow at the Colorado-based Independence Institute, said the candidates are merely taking a cue from voters.

“I think Americans are solidifying an attitude that has been there all along -- an attitude that is uncongenial to lots more gun control,” he said.

Much to the chagrin of gun control lobbyists on Capitol Hill and in state legislatures, current politics have not played well in their favor. They cite support by Democrats of a bill that would render gun manufacturers immune to lawsuits -- a cornerstone of their efforts to impose non-legislative controls on the gun industry in the last few years.

“It is a misuse of the civil justice system to try and punish honest, law-abiding people for illegal acts committed by others without their knowledge or involvement,” Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D., a frequent critic of lax gun laws, said in September. He has joined nine Senate Democrats in supporting the bill.

“The only thing that will set the industry straight is with lawsuits,” Howard said. The Brady Campaign has argued that the bill -- which has already passed in the House -- would protect dealers like Bulls Eye Shooter Supply, which claimed it lost the Bushmaster allegedly used last year by Washington, D.C.-area sniper defendants John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo.

Since 1998, 33 municipalities, counties and states have attempted to sue gun manufacturers, accusing them for putting specially marketed “crime guns” on the market. Many of those suits have been tossed out of court, and none have resulted in any manufacturer or dealer paying any damages.

Another blow to the gun control lobby came Oct. 2 when the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released a review of 51 published studies about the effectiveness of state gun control laws. The CDC report found “insufficient evidence” that increased gun control lowers crime rates.

This has made it very difficult for groups like the Brady Campaign, which enjoyed tremendous media exposure during the Clinton administration -- culminating in the anti-gun Million Mom March in May 1999, to gain traction.

“We had a domestic news blackout since the spring because of the war, but that’s not the only reason for this,” said Howard. “A lot of this stuff isn’t easily put into 30-second sound bites.”

Howard and others expect the discourse to heat up in the months preceding the expiration of the federal assault weapons ban in September 2004. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., has already introduced a reauthorization bill with tougher restrictions. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., has introduced her own version in the Senate.

“People understand that assault weapons do not belong on the street,” said McCarthy spokesman Scott Rowson. “No matter Democrat or Republican, there is deep and broad support against assault weapons in the public.”

Gun rights activists say if gun control were to become an issue in the 2004 election, it will be over the assault weapons ban reauthorization. Republican sources say debate is already emerging among the GOP rank-and-file in the House whether to fight it, and talk has centered around whether gun advocates will be inclined to go all out for President Bush if he signs a new ban.

“If it gets to the president’s desk, and he signs it, [that] would be a campaign issue like you wouldn’t believe,” said Pratt. “It would put gun owners in a real foul mood.”

[cpileri]

Its an issue FOR ME.

No votes from me for anyone who signs any gun control. Period.

[w4rma]

…
If anything, the Democratic debate in Baltimore, Md., on Sept. 9 featured a brief tussle over former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean’s support of states’ rights on the issue. He has been a long defender of hunters in his home state.

“I would like to see the candidates talk about it more,” said Howard, who added that he is hopeful that the candidates will be forced to talk about it when they meet in Detroit on Oct. 26 for the second Congressional Black Caucus Institute-sponsored debate. That debate will air live on Fox News Channel.
…

[Teufelhunden]

I'm inclined to agree with Detritus. It's unfortunate that our politicians have learned to hide their opinions and show their true colors after they've been elected when they sense an issue might not get them elected instead of realizing that they're out of sync with the majority of the country and bringing themselves closer to being a true representative of their citizens.

-Teuf

[geekWithA.45]

The idea is that the bird of prey runs cloaked and invisible, and then pops unto the radar just before delivering a devastating blow.

As a rule, politicians' don't talk about the real issues anyway, most of the public debates are red herrings.

[Mark Tyson]

the only hope i can see is if somehow the current ban is renewed/left in place (onerous as it is), b/c it is better than whatever piece of garbage is used to replace it.

The "super-ban" is already drafted and in the works. They're not satisfied with renewing it, they've got it in their heads to ban millions more guns, "sporting purposes or not". . I think the critical time period will be before the ban sunsets, not after.

We need a major campaign to get the hunters off their compromising ___es and back into our corner.

[GSB]

I think the critical time period will be before the ban sunsets, not after.

Maybe. If the ban sunsets without renewal, then the first time an eeeeevil assault rifle is used in a killing, there will be a chorus of "See the carnage in the streets from letting this sunset? We need an outright ban on assault/sniper/crime weapons."

[madmike]

“The modus operandi of the gun lobby is to keep the discussion down,” said Eric

Right. Very quiet in the Silveira case and state CCW. Why, we've only won two more states this year. ;-):neener:

[Matt G]

"Won't Target Gun Control" means "Will Attempt To Avoid The Wrath Of Voting NRA and GOA Members."

Moving to Legal & Political.

[Bruce H]

Anybody remember the movie Barbarians at the gate with James Garner, Fred Thompson and others. How the takeover masterminds lulled them into thinking they were no longer interested in RJR Nabisco. Controllers work the same way. If FOX news were half a good as they claim there is lots of info saying they are wrong. Fanatics are always fanatical. Different game plan with the same end results. Just get lazy and complacent and see what happens.

[Hkmp5sd]

It is a non-issue for two basic reasons. First, the Republicans are trying to avoid passing any (re)new gun laws and putting Bush on the spot as to veto or sign. The second reason is the democrats still remember 1994 and are scared to death about a repeat.

The only persons in congress pressing new gun laws are the long standing diehard antigun types. They've been around for years, preaching gun bans and are essentially bullerproof from any negative impact on their reelections.

[longeyes]

Creeping disarmament is alive and well. It's at the center of the
socialist agenda. Control, control, and more control.

[Monkeyleg]

Feinstein and McCarthy are making a mistake with the expanded black rifle ban they're proposing. If they were smart, they'd propose a weaker version of the '94 ban. Say, one that allowed two evil features in addition to the detachable mag. So, you could have a pistol grip and bayo lug.

It would be much more saleable to some gunowners, and thus to certain congresscritters. It would stand a better chance of reaching Bush's desk, where he would have little choice but to sign it given his public statements. And that would seal his fate. After his defeat, they could come back and add all the other amendments they wanted in the first place.

[WAGCEVP]

FW: Analysts: Gun Control a Non-Issue in 2004
Date: Oct 14, 2003 12:01 PM
We are winning; we just need to keep up the momentum! Mitch

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Dexter [mailto:jimdex@xmission.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:22 AM
To: K-Talk Forum
Subject: FW: Analysts: Gun Control a Non-Issue in 2004


Tuesday, October 14, 2003

Analysts: Gun Control a Non-Issue in 2004
By Kelley Beaucar Vlahos

WASHINGTON < Though a spate of gun violence has torn through schools and
offices of late, hardly a word has been spoken on the campaign trail,
angry moms are not marching and few lawmakers are waving their fists,
leaving some to conclude that gun control is no longer a vital political
issue.

Gun control advocates (search) blame a lack of media interest and an
aggressive pro-gun lobby on the inattention to gun violence.

"The modus operandi of the gun lobby is to keep the discussion down,"
said Eric Howard, spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Handgun
Violence (search).

But supporters of gun rights (search) say pro-gun control Democrats have
learned the hard way that a majority of Americans think current laws are
strict enough.

"The Democrats have decided that the stove is still hot and they don't
want to get burned again," said Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun
Owners of America (search). "Whatever the rhetoric had been it hasn't
been matched with what happened at the polling booth."

Despite more than a half-dozen shootings between Sept. 25 and Oct. 6 in
or around schools across the country -- a record that should have sent
the media in a tailspin, say critics -- press accounts have not been
used to resurrect the flagging issue of gun control.

And though Democrats have engaged in three nationally televised primary
debates so far, little or no discussion has been made of where the
candidates stand on the issue.

If anything, the Democratic debate in Baltimore, Md., on Sept. 9
featured a brief tussle over former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (search)'s
support of states' rights on the issue. He has been a long defender of
hunters in his home state.

"I would like to see the candidates talk about it more," said Howard,
who added that he is hopeful that the candidates will be forced to talk
about it when they meet in Detroit on Oct. 26 for the second
Congressional Black Caucus Institute-sponsored debate. That debate will
air live on Fox News Channel.

Political experts say that tough gun control stances have done little to
help out candidates in the last four years, including Vice President Al
Gore (search), who lost to George W. Bush in the 2000 election. Groups
like the National Rifle Association (search) have also been quite
successful in turning out voters to the polls.

"I think there is a general feeling among many folks that this was a
loser for Democrats in 2000, that it put up an impenetrable electoral
wall around the South that Al Gore couldn't penetrate," said one source
close to one of the Democratic primary campaigns.

"Most of the top-tier Democrats, with the exception of Howard Dean, are
in the same place on gun control, but none of them are going to make it
a main issue," he added.

David Kopel, a gun rights advocate and fellow at the Colorado-based
Independence Institute (search), said the candidates are merely taking a
cue from voters.

"I think Americans are solidifying an attitude that has been there all
along
-- an attitude that is uncongenial to lots more gun control," he said.

Much to the chagrin of gun control lobbyists on Capitol Hill and in
state legislatures, current politics have not played well in their
favor. They cite support by Democrats of a bill that would render gun
manufacturers immune to lawsuits -- a cornerstone of their efforts to
impose non-legislative controls on the gun industry in the last few
years.

"It is a misuse of the civil justice system to try and punish honest,
law-abiding people for illegal acts committed by others without their
knowledge or involvement," Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D., a
frequent critic of lax gun laws, said in September. He has joined nine
Senate Democrats in supporting the bill.

"The only thing that will set the industry straight is with lawsuits,"
Howard said. The Brady Campaign has argued that the bill -- which has
already passed in the House -- would protect dealers like Bulls Eye
Shooter Supply (search), which claimed it lost the Bushmaster (search)
allegedly used last year by Washington, D.C.-area sniper defendants John
Allen Muhammad (search) and Lee Boyd Malvo (search).

Since 1998, 33 municipalities, counties and states have attempted to sue
gun manufacturers, accusing them for putting specially marketed "crime
guns" on the market. Many of those suits have been tossed out of court,
and none have resulted in any manufacturer or dealer paying any damages.

Another blow to the gun control lobby came Oct. 2 when the Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention (search) released a review of 51
published studies about the effectiveness of state gun control laws. The
CDC report found "insufficient evidence" that increased gun control
lowers crime rates.

This has made it very difficult for groups like the Brady Campaign,
which enjoyed tremendous media exposure during the Clinton
administration -- culminating in the anti-gun Million Mom March (search)
in May 1999, to gain traction.

"We had a domestic news blackout since the spring because of the war,
but that's not the only reason for this," said Howard. "A lot of this
stuff isn't easily put into 30-second sound bites."

Howard and others expect the discourse to heat up in the months
preceding the expiration of the federal assault weapons ban (search) in
September 2004. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., has already introduced a
reauthorization bill with tougher restrictions. Sen. Dianne Feinstein,
D-Calif., has introduced her own version in the Senate.

"People understand that assault weapons do not belong on the street,"
said McCarthy spokesman Scott Rowson. "No matter Democrat or Republican,
there is deep and broad support against assault weapons in the public."

Gun rights activists say if gun control were to become an issue in the
2004 election, it will be over the assault weapons ban reauthorization.
Republican sources say debate is already emerging among the GOP
rank-and-file in the House whether to fight it, and talk has centered
around whether gun advocates will be inclined to go all out for
President Bush if he signs a new ban.

"If it gets to the president's desk, and he signs it, [that] would be a
campaign issue like you wouldn't believe," said Pratt. "It would put gun
owners in a real foul mood."

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[Drjones]

Being that I live in a big city in a thoroughly communist country...er....state I guess....(barely)....

I NEVER hear anything on either the local or national news about gun control.

:confused:

[LawDog]

Multiple threads merged.

LawDog

[El Rojo]

I have heard that the democrats want the new bill to die and die miserably. I think they are planning on using it to their advantage later. Hence the much more restrictive bill that has little chance of passing.

How great would it be if enough gun people contacted the president and let him know his demise would be signed along with his signature on a new AW bill. Then when it got to his desk he said, "Sorry folks, I told you before I was going to sign this, but the people that put me in here want there to be a clear message to the minority. The 2nd Amendment is an individual right and this bill attempts to bind that right. The right of the People to keep and bear arms will not be infringed. I am vetoing this bill."

Yeah I know it is far fetched. However, I think he might also add, "In addition to vetoing this bill, I am signing this bill that prohibits all states from banning any sort of so called "assault weapon" and I will set the people of New Jersey and California free from their despotic masters. Long live the Constitution of the United States of America." :rolleyes: