[Magwa45]

I went to the one local shop that I know carries Uberti cap and ball revolvers. They had both a Walker and a Dragoon in stock and I spent awhile comparing and sampling both. Then the guy behind the counter gave me a story about the Walker having been made for the "Arizona Rangers" with the story about the original model selling for some $900,000 recently. That is the first I have heard about Arizona Rangers!:D

Really liked the Dragoon and thinking of buying a 3rd Model.

[NobleSniper]

I am afraid he was just being a salesman..........check oiut the Walker thread down below for the best source of information on the internet.

[X-Rap]

Wrong state and maybe 50 yrs. off. The Az. Rangers did exist but the Walker was a Texas gun.

[ambidextrous1]

The Arizona Rangers DO exist, at least as recently as a year ago, when I took an NRA Instructor's course in Tucson, and an Arizona Ranger was a fellow student in that class.

He knew I was from Texas, and mentioned that the Arizona Rangers and Texas Rangers (which, incidentally, also still exist) exchange and share information and resources freely and frequently.

He was a quiet but cordial man, and extremely focused on the material presented by our Instructor. I learned a lot from him...

[scrat]

hahahahahahhaahahhahahahahhahahhahahhaha oh wait hahahhahahahahhaahahhahaha

[scrat]

you better hope gotc and Old fuff dont see this. hahhahahahahhahahhaahhahahahhahahahaahhahahahahhahaahhaahahhahahah

oh wait its probably past thier bed time

[NobleSniper]

:D:D:D:D

[jimmyraythomason]

"Big Iron" sung by Marty Robbins. The WALKER was indeed made for a Texas Ranger. The remaining specimen was on display at one time in The Texas Ranger Hall of Fame and Museum in Waco,Tx.http://americanhistory.si.edu/militaryhistory/collection/object.asp?ID=820

[armoredman]

Arizona Rangers still exist in two form, AZ Rangers and AZ Territorial Rangers, both private security guard outfits who do charity work, and funeral escorts, from what I have seen. Neither is a bona fide law enforcement agency. The actual Arizona Rangers were tough hombres back at the very early 1900s, but the outfit didn't last very long.

[Old Fuff]

you better hope gotc and Old fuff dont see this. hahhahahahahhahahhaahhahahahhahahahaahhahahahahhahaahhaahahhahahah

Too late.... :eek:

I would like you guys up in the peanut gallery to know that around 1981 I personally interviewed one of the last living Arizona Territorial Rangers…

So eat your heart out…. :neener:

He was in his 90’s and physically fragile. But his mind was as sharp as a tack. Given his condition I was allowed about 20 minutes, which was enough to tire him out. But during those few minutes I learned more about how things really were, then from all the books I’d ever read. It’s not often that you get to talk to a living legend who really had “been there and done that.”

They were so good in fact, that they worked themselves out of a job. The outfit was formed for the sole purpose of cleaning up southern Arizona and making it civilized enough so that Arizona could be admitted into the Union and become a state. They didn’t do it exactly the same as our new president would, meaning that they’re Capt. didn’t tell them that a “peaceful resolution” was the best solution to the outlaw problem… :what:

As a consequence it wasn’t too long before there wasn’t much of an outlaw problem… :evil:

Good man he was, passed away about six months after we had our little talk.

Now it is indeed after my bedtime. :D

[scrat]

hahahahahahahahahahhaha GOOD NITE OLD FUFF

[bigbadgun]

being from the god blessed state of Arizona the greatest in the union as a matter of fact I need to add my 2 cents of course.

The Arizona Rangers were organized in 1901 to protect the Arizona Territory from outlaws and rustlers so that the Territory could apply for Statehood. They were picked from law officers, military men, ranchers and cowboys. With maximum company strength of 26 men, they covered the entire territory.

By 1909, the Arizona Rangers had largely accomplished their goals and were disbanded by the Territorial Governor. In total there were only 107 original Territorial Rangers.

Re-established in 1957 by a few surviving original Territorial Arizona Rangers, the present day Arizona Rangers are an unpaid, all volunteer, law enforcement support and assistance civilian auxiliary in this State who work co-operatively at the request of and under the direction, control, and supervision of established law enforcement officials and officers. The also provide youth support and community service and work to preserve the tradition, honor, and history of the 1901-1909 Arizona Rangers.

SO they were in there time the best of the best of the best.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

MagWa 45...
hee hee,HEEHEEHEE...He lied to you.
EVERYBODY know's that the Walkers were built in the French Quarter in New Orleans in Colt's building that was located right there by the river. (the building is still there. it's a bycycle shop now)
The Walkers were built for and issued to the Louisiana Rangers, a real kickass bunch of coonasses. Due to the period of time that has elasped since then I'm afraid I don't have the whole story, but it is a matter of record that 1stLt. Walker was the leader of these men and was affectionately referred to as 'Swamp Fox' by his friends and foes alike, of which a tv series was eventually produced. (very popular show). 'Dragoon' came into being because of a man named Roger Dale Dragoon who was old man Colt's son-in-law, having married Mr. Colt's second oldest daughter. He took over the business after Colt retired. Walker had requested of Colt a heavier and more powerful handgun capable of multiple shots before reloading; one that was easy to use and manipulate among the vines and thick undergrowth found in the swamps, and had the power to stop some of the aligators and turtles that were pulling his men down seemingly at will.
Don't listen to those people in Arizona, man. If you need the truth about a blackpowder firearm just ask some of the people on this site. We'll help you anyway we can. I am usually always available..14th Alabama CSA..(!)

[Magwa45]

I was aware of the Colt Walker connection to the Texas Rangers, just amazed at a salesman take on it and had never heard of the link to the Arizona Rangers.

[J.T. Gerrity]

Actually, the Walkers were designed for the Army; the U.S. Mounted Rifles, to be precise. While Walker had been a Ranger, he was a Captain in the Army when he and Colt designed the Walker. There was a division of the U.S.M.R. called the Rangers, but weren't the original Texas Rangers of Jack Hays and the Comanche fight. See this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=444875)for more info.

An original Walker did sell for over $900,000 recently, but it wasn't the original model.

[Old Fuff]

An original Walker did sell for over $900,000 recently, but it wasn't the original model.

Interesting.... In what way was it not original?

[SWC Bonfire]

To add to JT's post, when the US mounted rifles and the ranger units were commissioned into Army service, they asked to be issued "Colt's revolvers". There were none as far as the army was concerned, as Colt was out of business and relatively unknown outside of Texas. Colt responded with a full-page advertisement in several newspapers advertising his revolvers for sale even though he hadn't fully completed the deal with Whitney to manufacture them. He ended up losing a few dollars on the deal but essentially got national advertising for free, and Samuel Colt was back in business for good.

From what I understand, the US Army didn't want to issue them because they were upset that any company went through different channels to obtain non-standard issue firearms. The USMR finally did eventually get them (Walker was presented his own by Colt, outside of standard channels), but 500 Texas Rangers under Jack Hays & RIP Ford were issued the revolvers and used them. Not to blaspheme the USMR, who embraced Ranger-like tactics with great success, but the majority of use of the Walker Colt seen in the Mexican war was in the hands of bona fide Texas Rangers under US Army Colonel Jack Hays.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Must be a helluva gun..$900,000.00..Remind's me of all the hoopla going on about 2 years ago over this new Remingtom '58 that was going to be produced and would supposedly sell for somewhere around $1600.00 give or take a little. And OH MY GOD!! It was actually going to be stamped 'made in the USA', and wouldn't do a damn bit more than a good Pietta right out of the box, and what it did do it probably wouldn't do any better, but with spending all that money for it the man would be afraid to shoot it... Just a 'safe queen'. The man who bought it would get absolutely no use out of it and then after he was dead his wife, or his son or his grand daughter would dig it out and go try and sell it in order to get a new car or for college tuition. They would be lucky to get back in actual value what their Grand Daddy originally paid for it.
Oh! Alas and alas! What mortals these fools be!.14th Alabama CSA,,

[J.T. Gerrity]

Interesting.... In what way was it not original?

Sorry... spent too much time in engineering. The original model (in Italics) would be the prototype, no.1. Semantics, I know. It certainly was an original Walker. :rolleyes:

[X-Rap]

I have read that very few of the surviving Walkers are in good shape. It seems that the tough frontier duty took its toll. The one from the auction saw minimal service didn't it?

[Old Fuff]

SWC Bonfire:

Ah no… Don’t believe so.

Unquestionably there were officers in both the U.S. Army and it’s Ordnance Corps that were opposed to repeating arms in general, and Colt’s revolvers in particular. But only about 1/3 or slightly less of the Walker’s total production were issued to Hayes' Texas Rangers, and they weren’t especially successful, as the following report shows. It was written and submitted in 1848 by Colonel George Talcott, Chief of Ordnance; U.S. Army.

The first issue of Colt pistols proved to be almost complete failures for practical utility, as had been the case with other repeating breech loading arms, and created a prejudice against them. In support of this, I need only to refer to the issue of this pistol to the Texas Rangers, under the celebrated Col. Jack Hayes. There were received 280 pistols, and after less then a year’s service there were left to be returned to the arsenals but 191 in all, of which only 82 were serviceable, the remainder chiefly bursted in the hands of the men, a few being lost in skirmishes with the enemy. These arms were issued in August 1847, and the Rangers turned in whatever were left when they mustered out of service in the spring of 1848. The pistols last made have been modified in some respects from the original pattern, and much improved in the manufacturer, particularly in the material used.

Colt didn't release any advertising until late 1847 or '48, and that was to plug his new "Holster Pistol" aka "Dragoon."

[SWC Bonfire]

Old Fluff, thanks for the report. I'm sure it is more accurate than an account included in TR Fehrenbach's Lone Star, which is what I was referring to, which specifically mentioned 500 revolvers issued by Rip Ford at Vera Cruz. The lower number is probably much more accurate, because there never were many Texas Rangers numerically. Perhaps the 500 cited was for both the USMR & Texas Rangers as a whole. Or I got the number wrong.

From what I understand and have read, the USMR didn't receive their standard issue of revolvers until a bulk of the fighting was over with - as in they stayed in a millitary armory hung up by red tape. I would be interested in the remainder of that report and if it speaks of the whereabouts and use of the other revolvers. Hays men were well acquainted with the use of revolvers. If they could keep the Paterson's going in battle, you would think that the walker would be much more durable. The reason the walkers were returned in such poor shape is likely because they used the dog fool out of them. I still would contend that the rangers probably used the revolvers more, despite the smaller number of weapons issued. Whether they were used legally or not is another topic... I know for a fact they wiped out an entire neighborhood in Mexico City after a ranger was found dead in a house of ill repute.

[Old Fuff]

I think we're hijacking this thread, and if so I'm as much as fault - or more so - then anyone else. :uhoh:

So since the Colt Walker, and who used them had nothing too do with the Arizona Rangers, lets everybody that interested in Walkers and the Texas Rangers go over to this thread. It's all about Walkers, and has tons of interesting information - especially on the last 6 pages or so.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=341028

[Tallship]

Here is the Walker that sold for $980,000:

http://acn.liveauctioneers.com/images/stories/2008_10/2008_1027_julia_gun.jpg

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Appreciate the picture but it dosen't look any better than my Uberti and probably dosen't shoot as good..Perhaps I simply have no eye for beauty or appreciation for the finer things of life....

[NobleSniper]

Looks like I saved all kinds of money then ;) :D

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/houchins1/101_0176.jpg

[messerist]

Question: "What does one do with a Million Dollar Walker?":confused:

[NobleSniper]

I am the kind of sick individual that would have to shoot it just once :D

[Old Fuff]

Actually it was over $900,000 becaue of auction house fees and such. I believe the owner is probably someone who can afford the more unique things in life that the rest of can't - and knows it.

Unlike "The Gent," I don't think he's going to go shoot it. :D

As an aside: Next month the NRA Convention will be held in Phoenix, AZ. Part of it will include a large display of firearms of all kinds - Including the finest Colt Patersons, Walkers, Dragoons - anything you can name. I am talking about litterally many millions of dollars worth of historical antiques. You can't have it, but I do believe they allow cameras, and there are usually people around to answer questions.

You can see all of this for free. If you can do so, go. It will be an experience you will never forget. :cool:

[J.T. Gerrity]

I originally posted this on the Walker thread, but since this thread is officially hijacked, I'll post it here:
SWC: Walker, a Captain in the U.S. Mounted Rifles, approached President Polk regarding the new revolver. Polk was so impressed that he ordered William Marcy, Secretary of War to purchase the pistols. Marcy in turn contacted Lt. Col. George Talbot, chief of Army Ordnance, in early December 1846 regarding procurement of Colt's pistols, for which acceptance was given on or about Dec. 7th 1946; the contract was for 1000 pistols in three month's time at a price of $25 each, to be acquired by the Army specifically for the U.S. Mounted Rifles (hence the USMR roll engraving on the cylinder). The orders were approved before Colt approached Whitney to manufacture them. More military orders followed for the "improved" holster pistols (Dragoons), and it was this that put Colt "back in business".
Though several companies of Texas Rangers acted as scouts during the war, Walker was officially a Captain in the Army at the time he collaborated with Colt on the Walker.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Old Fuff, how you doing this evening? Sound's like you're all full of piss and vinegar. Taking a break from the research? I notice that Mr. JT Gerrity has been posting a lot of information. Did you and Noble Sniper hire him to get the truth out?!
I'm aggravated tonight Fuff. It's a little chilly outside and in here. I turn the heat on and it get's too hot. I turn the heat off and it get's too chilly. Just back and forth.
I have really enjoyed reading lot's of the stuff ya'll have been posting the last few days, Fuff.
No way this side of hell would I pay that kind of money for a damned ol' gun. Any kind of gun. (even if I had plenty of money to do so which I certainly do not) If I buy a gun I'm going hunting with it at least a time or two here and there. (after I shoot it a few times and get a good sight picture worked out for it!)
I do wonder though sometimes like how many of those old Walkers and Patersons and what not is stuck away in people's safes and all....Correct your post. I don't believe you really meant nine million dollars....

[NobleSniper]

Question I have is show me where the USMR fought outside of Texas or Mexico?????/

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Noble Sniper..Why don't you blue that damn cylinder before you be putting pictures of that thing all over this thread?!!....

[NobleSniper]

Gent......awful funny how it resembles the one with the white cylinder that sold for a million bucks isn't it??????:D

[J.T. Gerrity]

Question I have is show me where the USMR fought outside of Texas or Mexico???

This Site (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/3acr.htm) will tell you all you need to Know about the U.S.Mounted Rifles. Suffice to say that it was active from the Mexican War through the Civil War, the Battle of Rosebud Creek, into World Wars One and Two. It has undergone many changes over the years, but is still active today as the "Third Armored Cavalry Regiment".

[NobleSniper]

Nice link ;) But I would have to say the Walker was issued for them to use first off in Texas and Mexico. Because if memory serves me correct they were replaced by the Dragoon before they went back to barracks in Mo.

[J.T. Gerrity]

Mexico, yes. Texas, no.

[AdmiralB]

Actually it was over $9,000,000 becaue of auction house fees and such.


Ah bleive you're off by a decimal; for nearly ten million I'd want the revolver, and Jack Hays' stuffed horse too.

[NobleSniper]

Thjey wre defending Texas basically from the mexicans weren't they???

[madcratebuilder]

Quote:
Actually it was over $9,000,000 becaue of auction house fees and such.

Ah bleive you're off by a decimal; for nearly ten million I'd want the revolver, and Jack Hays' stuffed horse too.

I see that 9 million is post more than once. The price, with fees, that I saw was $980,000, or $8,020,000 less. Still a good piece of pocket change.


Noble Sniper..Why don't you blue that damn cylinder before you be putting pictures of that thing all over this thread?!!....

WHAT! and ruin an "authentic" looking Walker.....never!
This is what they are suppose to look like.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/walker1.jpg

[AdmiralB]

The winning bid was $800,000, with a 15% premium for a total of $920K.

[Old Fuff]

Correct your post. I don't believe you really meant nine million dollars....

Correct what???? Trouble is you guys don't know how to think BIG!!! :D

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Fuff, I do appoligize and I stand corrected. I bow before your greatness..

[madcratebuilder]

Correct what???? Trouble is you guys don't know how to think BIG!!!

I want that extra eight million to buy more guns, I have to have more guns.... I want them all!

All this talk about a Dragoon with a should stock has me looking for one.

[Old Fuff]

Look you guys....

I'm trying to get an Obama Bailout like the big-bankers get to help out the badly depressed gun industry, and asking for someting under one million bucks won't even get my application onto his desk. Nine billion bucks would be more like it, and I think my rat hole is just as good as anybody else's is.

You want a bailout...??? Go get your own. :evil: :D

[brotherlloyd]

Men, Light out! sweet dreams of yesterdays, God bless

[J_M_H]

The Arizona Rangers (proper) weren't established until sometime around 1901.

The "Arizona Brigade" was comprised almost exclusively of Texas Cavalry units during the Civil War (1st-4th Texas Cavalry regiments).

It is quite conceivable that a Walker or 2 may have been found amongst the soldiers of the Arizona Brigade, as the Texas Rangers were the primary customers of this weapon, and many joined cavalry units during the Civil War. The Arizona Brigade was sometimes referred to as the "Arizona Rangers".

As to any documented connection with a given Walker - highly doubtful at best.

For a little history on this brigade: http://members.tripod.com/~azrebel/page14.html