[Jimdo]

Hi guys,
I just went over to gunforums.com and apparently there is not much 'action' on their forums, I am brand spankin' new to gun forums in general, though I do have quite a bit of knife forum background. Nevertheless, could the connoisseurs over here help me to ID a couple of guns?
First up E. Remington and Sons, what I believe to be a model 1883 due to the serial number and this websites serialization chart (http://www.wisnersinc.com/additional_info/RemingtonDblID.htm)
Hopefully this pic of the hammers will give someone enough information to tell me if this is indeed an 1883 (P.S. the serial number is 145xx)
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y287/Jimdo/DSCN0004.jpg

Next up is a 16 GA. pinfire, which I believe to be European (German or Belgian perhaps?) Nevertheless, I am in no way an authoritative source on such things and would appreciate any and all info. as to the make, manufacturer and approximate value.
Thanks.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y287/Jimdo/DSCN0015.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y287/Jimdo/DSCN0026.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y287/Jimdo/DSCN0018.jpg
Thanks in Advance,
- Jim

[jlrhiner]

The pinfire looks like a Lefecheax (sic). I do have to say that the trigger guard dosen't show up in any of my books. Could be a cheap (for the time) knock off.

[Jimdo]

Anybody else have any ideas on these?

[Dave McCracken]

I've seen that action on a French pinfire. The TG was different. I believe a Purdey employee invented that design.

The Remington COULD be an 83, but I'm no expert. Let's see what else comes up.

Of course, neither is a shooter.

[Jimdo]

I realize that neither are shooters, but I need to know what they are for future reference, particularly if the Remington is an 1883 (there weren't alot of 83's made) and they are worth quite alot more than the 1882's.
The Euro. Pinfire is just interesting to me and I would like to know what it is... I was hoping someone on here would know about these guns.

[Jim Watson]

Just a few thoughts, I am NOT a shotgun collector.

All I have to go on is Flayderman for the Remington. He shows drawings of all the hammers where Wisners skips the 1883. Your hammer sure looks like an 1882, but the serial number is in Wisner's 1883 range. I doubt Remington threw good parts away, a selling collector might call it "transitional" while a buying collector might call it "parts cleanup."

The antique gun world is crawling with pinfire shotguns at asking prices of a thousand dollars or more. Yours is an early type with Lefacheux "grip" action and hornguard. The swoopy trigger guard is not uncommon. See one of many at:
http://www.gunsinternational.com/French-Pinfire-16ga-Side-By-Side-shotgun.cfm?gun_id=100066615&CFID=2779297&CFTOKEN=53398925

If it does not have a maker's name or proofmarks, there is no chance of identifying the source by looks.

Sorry I cannot be of more help.

[Jimdo]

The gun does indeed have proof marks, the last picture is the closest I could come to photographing them, unfortunately....
They are in a very awkward place on the firearm to get to and photograph... I will completely disassemble the gun (as soon as I figure out how....) and take up close pics of the proof marks.

[Jimdo]

I have photoshopped the image so that you can see where the marks are and a little bit of what they look like...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y287/Jimdo/ProofMarks.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y287/Jimdo/ProofMarks-1.jpg

[Snow Dog]

You might want to try asking here: http://www.doublegunshop.com/welcome.htm These guys know their SxS's. They will want better pictures of the proof marks and anything stamped on the watertable or barrel flats. A good picture is worth a thousand words.

[Jim Watson]

I think the mark to the left in the picture is the Perron, a long time standard Belgian proofmark. So now we know it was made in Belgium in or after 1853.

If the mark on the left is a star over a script L, that ties it down to 1852-1853, an unusually close call from proof marks.


There should be an ELG in an oval somewhere under there.

[Jimdo]

I will do my best to get some better pics tomorrow and thanks again fellas for all the help thus far.
- Jim

[slabuda]

I really like seeing those old shotguns.
I used to metal detect farm fields while I was stationed in the UK for celtic/roman/saxon/medieval artifacts and came across loads of pin fire shottie shells.
Hated them damn things but the guns.....love em!!!!

[Jimdo]

Will have better pics some time next week. Sorry, I got busy last Thursday, when I was gonna take 'em...

[Jimdo]

Jim Watson, any way to gain an idea of the approximate value of such a piece?

[Jimdo]

Here are some much better pics of the proof marks.
Any and all help would be very much appreciated.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y287/Jimdo/DSCN0012.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y287/Jimdo/DSCN0014.jpg


Thanks,
- Jim

[Jimdo]

Anybody?

[Snow Dog]

According to the 22nd edition of the Blue Book of Gun Values that candlestick looking mark is a Belgian proof mark from the Perron proof house. It is descrided as being in use since 1853 and is listed as being a "View stamp & inspectors mark for parabellum pistols". Seems a bit strange to me. Maybe someone with a more recent edition of the Blue Book can check to see if there is a different entry for this mark.