Double 12 slugs ?


April 26, 2009, 11:10 PM
Hi ,
I inherited a like new 30" barrel Winchester Model 24 double 12 . Barrels are NOT rifled . Will it handle the increased pressure of rifled slugs ( not a really heavy gun ) and , if so , what sort ? Not even sure I can handle them ??? I have some sabots , but understand they are for rifled barrels . Will they harm my shotgun or simply be less than accurate ? I am not a hunter , but just wondered what slugs I could use in case a Grizzly tried to enter my trailer here in Mineral Wells , Texas . HA!!!!! Been reading horror stories about those creatures . The only reason I might ever have use for slugs would be in the event a circus animal got loose !!! Mostly just curious .
Thanks ,

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April 27, 2009, 10:51 AM
Probably better posted in the shotgun forum, but yeah, slugs will be safe in your double. I have fired 'em in my Sarasqueta (bought in 1971, Spanish built) double and it's choked mod/full. Be prepared for a butt whippin' on the shoulder end, though. Those things KICK in a sub 7 lb shotgun. One or two at the range, and I was ready to quit. Worse than the .375 H & H by a long shot! My gun is pretty accurate, at least with the modified barrel, out to 50 yards.

I shoot slugs out of my new Remington Spartan 20 gauge coach gun, too. I install the cylinder/IC bore chokes for 'em. The gun is VERY light and I can shoot it off the bench just fine. 20 gauge ain't nothin' to sneeze at, either. Consider it's 55 or so caliber and movin' as fast as my 50 caliber minies in my Hawken. To 50 yards, hey, it'll take a blackie. What you will find at out at 50 yards is there'll be some windage error. My 12 is regulated to the point that it's about 2" off either way at 50. IOW, the rounds from the right barrel hit 2" left and from the left barrel hit 2" right. The 20 is more like 5" off. It's the way the barrels are regulated. But, that's really not enough to matter for self defense on a bear.

If you shoot a bear out of season without the proper licenses, it'd better be a life or death deal. You'll probably have to go to court anyway unless there are no witnesses and you can get out without being seen. LOL They call it "shoot, shovel, and shut up" out west. Killin' a danged animal, even one that's attacking you, seems to be worse than killin' humans. I had to shoot a dog in MY yard attacking my cats when I went out to kick him off and he decided to attack me. Was a couple of years ago and it cost me 2800 in legal fees, got dismissed, but still irks me. It was simple self and property defense and the dog came in to MY yard to do it! If he'd been on a leash as is the law in this town.....but I digress. I'm not sure that game laws are quite as radical as are animal cruelty law in this state, just bear in mind there are consequences for killing an animal, even one that's trying to eat you. Killing humans is easier to get away with in court, it seems. The same people who's dog was in my yard killing my cats, the guy beat a kid to death and got no billed. The kid was in a fist fight with his kid in his yard when he got home. He used a steel pipe and crushed the kid's skull. :rolleyes: I should keep an aluminum baseball bat handy for crushing skulls, I guess. At least it'd be easier to cover up, less noise.

April 27, 2009, 02:19 PM
Hi MCgunner ,
I am really not going bear hunting at all . I was just curious and probably not man enough to even try slugs . I still wonder if I could shoot the few sabots I have without harming my gun ? I have some buckshot , but have not even gotten the nerve to try that . I simply fantacize ! That Lion charging video on You Tube is really frightening to say the least . It just seemd to me that a 12 gauge with buchshot of some sort might have been a good thing to have when that thing got close .
As for laws -- we have some real problems when man is secondary and abused as were you !! I do believe in the Constitution , but think the Supreme Court should be ABOLISHED and those who are putting animals ahead of man and keeping us from being energy independent should be tarred and feathered and run out of town !!!!!! I would love to place them in close proximity to their beloved and dangerous " protected " species . Talk about a quik attitude change !!!
We need to stop putting lawyers in public office !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for your response to my post . I am new to the forum and should have placed this in the place you mentioned .

April 27, 2009, 02:32 PM
Sabots will not harm the gun, but will not be accurate at all, and may in fact tumble instead of flying point first.

Plain old Rifled Slugs will be your best choice.

Slugs are not loaded to any higher pressure then any other shotgun shells, and will not harm your gun.


April 27, 2009, 02:44 PM
I have an older Sarasqueta in 16, imported by Stoeger and marked "Woodlander", that shoots standard Forster slugs as tho it was a rifle out to about 80 yards! The thing is choked mod/full and is a standard double triggered boxlock action.

No sights at all, less the (genuine, no less) ivory bead, but it's possible to bounce a coke can with either tube to really impressive distances.

If that gun's in any decent condion at all I would not hesitate to so use it.

April 27, 2009, 03:05 PM
Hi rcmodel & dogrunner ,

I figured the sabots might flop out in weird directions . OK as long as they don't boomerang !!
This Wnchester 12 is like new and bet my Uncle may have never shot it . I have used birdshot 3-4times practicing at cans .
If you have not seen that Lion charge video --

April 27, 2009, 03:28 PM
I saw the lion charge, someone posted it here in a thread somewhere I think.

Dogrunner, my Sarasquetta is pretty danged accurate, too! I fired it at 50 and it seemed to put 'em right where I wanted 'em if I took into acount the barrel regulation which wasn't as bad as my Spartan, not near the overlap, but in 12, kicks like a danged .600 nitro. LOL! It's a light gun. I bought it in '71 at a going out of business sale of a discount store in Bryan, Texas. Mine is stamped "FIE", imported by them. They were "firearms import and export" and were based in Miami. I think they're defunct, now. Mine has seen a lot of hard duck and goose hunting use, but is still tight and shoots well. Choked the way it is, it's sorta much for doves and I retired it from waterfowl shooting when steel shot became mandatory in 1980 here. It was a pretty sharp gun, but boat rides, mud, salt water, and what have you kinda took its toll on the stocks. It's got a couple of light rust spots on the barrels, but the metal is in better shape than the wood, but it is functional. The friggin' forearm split. I couldn't find any parts for it, so I drilled it and glued a dowel in and finished over it. At least it's functional now.

Yeah, good ol' foster slugs will shoot in smooth bores just fine. Those sabots are made for rifled shotgun barrels. I dont' think I'd have wanted buckshot on that charging lion, though. YEOW! How about a phazer on kill? That's why the PHs over there carry big bore double rifles, though, to stop big dangerous animals. Sure would feel a might under-gunned with ANYthing in my gun case over there for a lion charge at least. LOL Them's some big kitty cats. A big griz ain't got squat on one of those things. In fact, knowing cats as I do, they are quite scary to me compared to a bear. They're sneaky, intelligent , and down right mean if you get 'em mad. I suppose a thump on the head with a slug would stop one, but I'd want something with better penetration. Everyone on these boards seem to think the 12 gauge slug is the ultimate stopper, but slugs are soft lead and don't have a lot of sectional density. On bear, a .338 Win Mag would be good, maybe .375 H&H. But, if you're camping in griz country and don't have a .375, I suppose the shotgun would do. LOL! Most people on these boards just sit around and pontificate such things. Some purport to actually knowing what they're talkin' about. Not many are apt to admit they're just BSin' about it like you and me. ROFL! Hell, I'll never get to see Alaska, let alone Africa, but it's fun to chat about, eh?

April 27, 2009, 05:03 PM
HA!! MCgunner , It is fun to imagine a trip to wild country and then just talk about it . I mentioned buckshot because I figured I would not have been " cool " enough to aim a slug !! I really would want a machine gun snd I didn't laugh too much when a fellow mentioned a handrenade !!! From all I have read it would seem a .375 H & H would be a good choice . I sold an inherited 44 Mag Ruger Carbine and would seem it would be awfully good at fairly close range , but nobody ever seems to mention that gun .

April 27, 2009, 05:20 PM
I'd want more'n a pistol caliber carbine, BAR maybe, or M60. Hey, you can miss with a shotgun, too, especially at close range. Full choke is pretty tight at 20 feet. And, 00 is only .33 caliber round ball, fine for squirrel rifles. :D

Reminds me of an episode of "Monster Quest" when they were talking about possible polar/grizzly bear cross breeds. There was one outside this Inuit village and this guy went after it and killed it, turned out it was a cross breed bear. He used an M16 on it, full auto version, not the 3 shot burst ones they issue now days. So, I guess tacticool has its place, eh? LOL

April 28, 2009, 12:53 AM
Hey MC ,
I guess I was thinking more in terms of a blunderbuss !!!!! Maybe a 12 gauge gatlin gun !! HA!!! Tis obvious that I am not a hunter and don't want to be in wild country . I do wish folks would plan a little more for hunts of dangerous animals . Not even sure 6 people with guns would be enough , but seems that the ones in that Lion video were not sufficient !!!
I like the idea of that M16 auto !!!

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